GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #61

[Everything22]

Has anyone delved into the last Discovery document from the State filed 4/28/2021?

I just found something extremely interesting in the "Certificate of Service" at the end of the document for all 4 Wagners. The Discovery was "provided" to the defendants (minus GW4) before it was emailed to their attorneys!

 

[Betty P]

I was on the road rage lady and a connection with motorcycle gangs. Then I just stopped theorizing. Nothing made sense because LE was tight lip about any and all evidence. No matter what was released it led to more speculation and theories. Anyway, I was wrong more than I was right. Jmo

Nothing made sense, in part because LE released so little information about the crimes. Leonard Manley gave us the most information until they convinced him to stop talking. Leonard said early on it might have been due to the custody battle. He later hinted that Jake had come over to HMR's home to try to force her to sign custody documents before the murders.

Knowing what's been revealed by the state since then, Len must have known about the altercation with the Wagners and Rhodens when that happened. Hannah Rhodens friends and surviving family members probably knew about prior DV by Jake and shared it with LE.

The public was in the dark about mozt of the evidence and investigation. We still are.

 

[Cool Cats]

I remember the early days. We were all over the place on this forum and were reacting to what was being reported in the media, and it was hard to fathom just who could be so sophisticated to carry out this kind of crime - and why someone would do this.

I'll never forget this case. It's not over yet and I will continue to follow. I pray that the end result is justice for the victims and their families. I'm starting to feel like that is really going to happen.

I don't think it was sophisticated I think they had no clue except to watch CSI and fantasize on how not to leave fingerprints and DNA and not be seen at the crime scenes.

Leaving casings all over that match casings on their property when they were using brass catchers, obviously didn't practice enough with their brass catchers, don't even know how to attatch them properly.

Then leaving footprints is one of the most unsophisticated things a killer could do...ditto....buying murder shoes in the store with the most sophisticated surveillance.

One of the stupidest.... Buying shoes to use at a murder scene then not throwing the receipt away, leaving it sitting all organized in a container. Then leaving forged custody documents with them for good measure.

We left screenshots of our victim's conversations on our family laptop, maybe after 2 years we should've tried to burn and bury it. Speaking of burning, can't get this silencer to work and wow it won't burn up! This is ridiculous, just throw it in the well - that water is so gross no dive team would dare go in there.

Hey, let's leave a trail of on-line and local store purchases, better yet let's use our address and pay with our reward's card. Make sure the purchases can be turned into silencers, don't forget to buy the flashlights. All of this has to fit a gun we will use, remember, the 22.

In case BCI needs a little extra help with ballistics, they will see one of our hands holding that gun on a phone. Now they have, what? A gun list! "I told you to get rid of your phone." Don't worry grandma will announce to the media how innocent and religious we are and that we read the bible, she even said they will find zero, zilch, nothing - you go grandma!

Don't worry, no one will know we fought with the Rhodens we will kill anyone who knows about it....What about Leonard?

We won't worry about him he doesn't know anything no one will pay attention to him they will be too busy looking for hit men from a drug gang, better yet the Cartel. They will have to file it as a cold cold case, HA!

Now where is that Boondock Saints movie we all want to watch? Let's have root beer floats with it - hey I want popcorn too! And hey, listen, stop "getting us in trouble over some woman." !!!!! (A 2 Cent Opinion)

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Here's wishing each and every Mother on here a very special Mother's Day. I am thinking about Ms. Geneva and all the pain she, Judy and Andrea are going through and I despise the lowlife W4 even more. Those little ones should be telling their momma's Happy Mother's Day in a few hours but that can't happen.

***Happy Mother's Day to my Mom in heaven

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I don't think it was sophisticated I think they had no clue except to watch CSI and fantasize on how not to leave fingerprints and DNA and not be seen at the crime scenes.

Leaving casings all over that match casings on their property when they were using brass catchers, obviously didn't practice enough with their brass catchers, don't even know how to attatch them properly.

Then leaving footprints is one of the most unsophisticated things a killer could do...ditto....buying murder shoes in the store with the most sophisticated surveillance.

One of the stupidest.... Buying shoes to use at a murder scene then not throwing the receipt away, leaving it sitting all organized in a container. Then leaving forged custody documents with them for good measure.

We left screenshots of our victim's conversations on our family laptop, maybe after 2 years we should've tried to burn and bury it. Speaking of burning, can't get this silencer to work and wow it won't burn up! This is ridiculous, just throw it in the well - that water is so gross no dive team would dare go in there.

Hey, let's leave a trail of on-line and local store purchases, better yet let's use our address and pay with our reward's card. Make sure the purchases can be turned into silencers, don't forget to buy the flashlights. All of this has to fit a gun we will use, remember, the 22.

In case BCI needs a little extra help with ballistics, they will see one of our hands holding that gun on a phone. Now they have, what? A gun list! "I told you to get rid of your phone." Don't worry grandma will announce to the media how innocent and religious we are and that we read the bible, she even said they will find zero, zilch, nothing - you go grandma!

Don't worry, no one will know we fought with the Rhodens we will kill anyone who knows about it....What about Leonard?

We won't worry about him he doesn't know anything no one will pay attention to him they will be too busy looking for hit men from a drug gang, better yet the Cartel. They will have to file it as a cold cold case, HA!

Now where is that Boondock Saints movie we all want to watch? Let's have root beer floats with it - hey I want popcorn too! And hey, listen, stop "getting us in trouble over some woman." !!!!! (A 2 Cent Opinion)

CC
Remember here about a few months ago the LE spoke about the fugitive living at Flying W Farm, IMO I really think that guy was the computer hacker and he new how to put mirror drives on all the Rhodens, Manleys and GW4 ex mother-in-law computer, JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Sleuthers, I been thinking about the slingshot, do you all remember Kenneth Rhodens ex wife talking about seeing someone on her property with a mask on and messing with her mailbox also someone was messing with Chris Sr mother apartment door, that what the slingshot was for, intimidation, JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

CC
Remember here about a few months ago the LE spoke about the fugitive living at Flying W Farm, IMO I really think that guy was the computer hacker and he new how to put mirror drives on all the Rhodens, Manleys and GW4 ex mother-in-law computer, JMO

Wouldn't put it past them, to use a Wagner lackey to do some of the dirty work for them.

Jake tried to get people to spy for him, I don't think that worked out too well, hence,
hacking their devices and buying counter survalance and bug detectors.

2 Cents

 

[SBops]

Nothing made sense, in part because LE released so little information about the crimes. Leonard Manley gave us the most information until they convinced him to stop talking. Leonard said early on it might have been due to the custody battle. He later hinted that Jake had come over to HMR's home to try to force her to sign custody documents before the murders.

Knowing what's been revealed by the state since then, Len must have known about the altercation with the Wagners and Rhodens when that happened. Hannah Rhodens friends and surviving family members probably knew about prior DV by Jake and shared it with LE.

The public was in the dark about mozt of the evidence and investigation. We still are.

Yes, and look at Jake. He is still in charge and manipulating the justice system. He is the boss. He tells or does not.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, and look at Jake. He is still in charge and manipulating the justice system. He is the boss. He tells or does not.

That ship has already sailed - he already told all - led them to the guns and vehicles
and corroborated with the prosecution on the evidence.

 

[Norrmajean]

Lonicera, I agree. What happened with the child from the oldest son was very unusual. I agree about the domination and also the contempt the W's felt toward the R's and M's. I cannot imagine the exaggerated sense of entitlement and the extreme level of contempt it would take to be able to murder eight members of a family just so you could get what you wanted for incredibly selfish, narcissistic reasons. That is NOT normal.

I, too, suspected the W's fairly early on. JW quickly got custody. We didn't know that custody and control was the apparent motive at the time, but in the one interview JW gave, before they became official suspects, JW seemed way too glib to me and he made sure to promote his online fundraiser in the interview. He screwed up in that interview, too, and he put himself at DR's home around 10 PM that night to pick up the child and said something to the effect "I reckon we just missed it by hours". His mother later made a correction to his statement. Huge red flag. The talk of a possible cartel never added up to me as a real possibility and from where I sat, the Manley's were victims who had no reason to murder their family members. They were victimized over and over.

After the arrests, Sheriff Reader made a statement about "all the lies they told", meaning the W's. I'd really like to know about the lies, because in my opinion, those lies must have been very carefully crafted and were believable enough to keep LE from focusing on the W's for a long time when the W's were the only ones who gained from the murders.

All JMO.

So many lies told and diversionary tactics designed to throw LE off the Ws track. One that stands out and shows JW for the self absorbed narcissist he is was told early on. In response to questions regarding the breakup with HR he stated that she felt he worked too much and was not spending enough time with her. Once again trying to drum up sympathy for himself while making HR look foolish and petty. Not to mention his supposed reason for wanting custody was HR was hanging around with questionable people. I doubt any of those in question committed mass murder or statutory rape. The hypocrisy astounds.

 

[molly1255]

I don't think it was sophisticated I think they had no clue except to watch CSI and fantasize on how not to leave fingerprints and DNA and not be seen at the crime scenes.

Leaving casings all over that match casings on their property when they were using brass catchers, obviously didn't practice enough with their brass catchers, don't even know how to attatch them properly.

Then leaving footprints is one of the most unsophisticated things a killer could do...ditto....buying murder shoes in the store with the most sophisticated surveillance.

One of the stupidest.... Buying shoes to use at a murder scene then not throwing the receipt away, leaving it sitting all organized in a container. Then leaving forged custody documents with them for good measure.

We left screenshots of our victim's conversations on our family laptop, maybe after 2 years we should've tried to burn and bury it. Speaking of burning, can't get this silencer to work and wow it won't burn up! This is ridiculous, just throw it in the well - that water is so gross no dive team would dare go in there.

Hey, let's leave a trail of on-line and local store purchases, better yet let's use our address and pay with our reward's card. Make sure the purchases can be turned into silencers, don't forget to buy the flashlights. All of this has to fit a gun we will use, remember, the 22.

In case BCI needs a little extra help with ballistics, they will see one of our hdands holding that gun on a phone. Now they have, what? A gun list! "I told you to get rid of your phone." Don't worry grandma will announce to the media how innocent and religious we are and that we read the bible, she even said they will find zero, zilch, nothing - you go grandma!

Don't worry, no one will know we fought with the Rhodens we will kill anyone who knows about it....What about Leonard?

We won't worry about him he doesn't know anything no one will pay attention to him they will be too busy looking for hit men from a drug gang, better yet the Cartel. They will have to file it as a cold cold case, HA!

Now where is that Boondock Saints movie we all want to watch? Let's have root beer floats with it - hey I want popcorn too! And hey, listen, stop "getting us in trouble over some woman." !!!!!

Even though what happened is so tragic and so horrible, I can't help but LOL at your very comprehensive list of the mistakes they made. I don't think they were sophisticated, either, but they certainly put a lot of collective effort into planning it out. But at the time we were listening to pressers in which we were hearing that great sophistication was utilized in the crimes.

No one has mentioned this, but I will. They made another huge mistake. Four cold-blooded murderers trusted one another to keep their secrets because they were in on it together - all for one and one for all. They were family! Ha! When facing the death penalty with lots of evidence against you, what are the chances that one of the conspirators/murderers is going to start to feel desperate and will try to strike a plea to take the death penalty off the table? I'd say the odds are pretty good that might happen. And it did happen. It just wasn't who I thought it would be.

There's an old saying there is no honor among thieves. I think that can be exponentially enhanced when dealing with cold-blooded murderers, whether they are family or not. JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Even though what happened is so tragic and so horrible, I can't help but LOL at your very comprehensive list of the mistakes they made. I don't think they were sophisticated, either, but they certainly put a lot of collective effort into planning it out.

No one has mentioned this, but I will. They made another huge mistake. Four cold-blooded murderers trusted one another to keep their secrets because they were in on it together - all for one and one for all. They were family! Ha! When facing the death penalty with lots of evidence against you, what are the chances that one of the conspirators/murderers is going to start to feel desperate and will try to strike a plea to take the death penalty off the table? I'd say the odds are pretty good that might happen. And it did happen. It just wasn't who I thought it would be.

There's an old saying there is no honor among thieves. I think that can be exponentially enhanced when dealing with cold-blooded murderers, whether they are family or not. JMO.

Your post got me thinking. You said "When facing the death penalty with lots of evidence against you"

that someone might plea to get out of the DP.

You know what? This could be why sly Canepa had Jake go first. There is more evidence against him than all the others. She is very experienced, she would know about defendants trying to avoid the DP. Had George gone first I don't think we would be hearing from Jake right now.

I really think George is desperate to go to trial and win. His lawyer made a mistake by not trying to get his trial first. His lawyer wants to see the other guy's hand before playing his own and admitted it in the Bond Hearing. Don't tell me that attorney who specializes in DP cases thought George would get bond, he was fishing.

Well he went fishing too long when he wanted to see how Jake's trial would go ahead of George's.

Point is, Canepa knows her stuff, knows the implications of the various types of evidence and most likely calculated that the one with the most evidence against them would plead to avoid the DP. It's what happens almost all the time, Jake is not any different. And now he has learned that being in the Wagner family will not get him his own way. Probably for the first time.
2 Cents

 

[ohioexpat63]

I deleted. Just piling on so....

 

[molly1255]

Your post got me thinking. You said "When facing the death penalty with lots of evidence against you"

that someone might plea to get out of the DP.

You know what? This could be why sly Canepa had Jake go first. There is more evidence against him than all the others. She is very experienced, she would know about defendants trying to avoid the DP. Had George gone first I don't think we would be hearing from Jake right now.

I really think George is desperate to go to trial and win. His lawyer made a mistake by not trying to get his trial first. His lawyer wants to see the other guy's hand before playing his own and admitted it in the Bond Hearing. Don't tell me that attorney who specializes in DP cases thought George would get bond, he was fishing.

Well he went fishing too long when he wanted to see how Jake's trial would go ahead of George's.

Point is, Canepa knows her stuff, knows the implications of the various types of evidence and most likely calculated that the one with the most evidence against them would plead to avoid the DP. It's what happens almost all the time, Jake is not any different. And now he has learned that being in the Wagner family will not get him his own way. Probably for the first time.
2 Cents

I agree with you on AC. I think she is brilliant and she knows her customers very well. I admire her, and she reminds me of the saying "iron fist in a velvet glove". The most evidence was against JW and his trial was to be first. Very strategic move. Very smart.

I followed the Chris Watts case very closely and he had his defense team approach the prosecution to arrange a plea deal. It was theorized on that forum that he did this (ripped off his own mask) and confessed to avoid having all of the gruesome details and evidence against him come out in open court, and it was not so much about avoiding the DP. He tucked his tail, confessed and ran away to prison.

On JW, it will be interesting to see what we might learn about what it is that motivated him to take a plea. There was a lot of evidence against him and AC was moving very confidently forward to prosecute him at trial and JMO, I think she would have won a conviction. I have lots of questions. Did his defense team approach the prosecution to try to arrange a plea deal? I suspect that is what happened.

What was JW's motivation/s in taking a plea deal? I do think that both JW and his defense team feared he would be convicted. Did he take a plea to take the DP off the table? Did he do it because he feels genuine remorse? Did he not want to judged by a jury of his peers and this was a way to avoid having that happen? It could be a combination of things, or perhaps it is something entirely different. It's hard to say. JMO, I don't think he's afraid to have the gruesome details come out in terms of what each of them did, because some of those details are required to come out of his own mouth.

All JMO.

 

[molly1255]

Just an aside, but the following quote seems appropriate. Just have to add an additional person in this case.

“Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.” — Benjamin Franklin

 

[Ann99]

So many possibilities .
Jake was away from Mommy Angela for a long long long long time.
Maybe he began to relate to AC.

 

[gizmobtj]

I have seen a number of references to an Elizabeth W UIReport on 8/5/18, but haven't found a description or copy. Does anyone know what that is or what that's about?

The religious aspects of all of this have been interesting to me

 

[Covert Operative]

I have seen a number of references to an Elizabeth W UIReport on 8/5/18, but haven't found a description or copy. Does anyone know what that is or what that's about?

The religious aspects of all of this have been interesting to me

If you mean an incident report, I have/got a copy of that long ago. I cannot post it here because there is no link for it that I can post from MSM. Not sure if that is what you are asking about.

 

[Cool Cats]

I have seen a number of references to an Elizabeth W UIReport on 8/5/18, but haven't found a description or copy. Does anyone know what that is or what that's about?

The religious aspects of all of this have been interesting to me

Ohio Uniform Incident Report. 8-15-18 (4 pp)

Incident report she took out on Jake. (Identity theft, harassment)

 

[gizmobtj]

Ohio Uniform Incident Report. 8-15-18 (4 pp)

Incident report she took out on Jake. (Identity theft, harassment)

Ah. Thanks to you both. That now makes plenty of sense