GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #62

[Everything22]

Cell phone jammers:

"GPS.gov: Information About GPS Jamming" GPS.gov: Information About GPS Jamming

 

[Everything22]

"...prosecutors read a previously undisclosed account of evidence that led to the arrest of the Wagner family."

Prosecutor: Hacked Facebook accounts, custody dispute led to Rhoden killings | NBC4 WCMH-TV

 

[Everything22]

MO
You could be right. If the two brothers were as close as we believe, Jake could have wanted to take death penalty away for the sake of George4 . Maybe Jake did try to indicate Geo4 had "minimal" involvement. But this would be from the mind of Wagner, ( not reality) with Jake minimizing Geo4 participation in all events leading up to and during 4/22 and afterwards. The law doesn't see it that way, neither does society nor the facts of the case.
I'm not making Jake a hero, I'm not taking up for either Jake or Geo4.
Something had to incentivize Jake.
Maybe it was concern for his brother.
MO

I have to disagree. I don't think Jake has any concern for his brother GW4 after he and his attorney Nash blamed it all on JW and AW in an open court hearing. Just my opinion.

 

[Everything22]

I think it's still safe to say that the latest filing by GW's attorney tries to address the issue of mental illness. Check the links above to the documents recently posted (moderator approved). They do specifically mention mental health records.

A family that has brutally planned and murdered 8 people in cold blood is likely to have some problems with mental health, personality disorder, etc. Certainly, its not enough to consider them incompetent. Their extensive planning, execution and cover up of the crimes clearly indicates they knew what they were doing.

We've long discussed here the theory that the Wagners are an "enmeshed" family. Statements by the prosecution have said their lives were very intermingled, that they did everything together. Normal people don't live and commit mass murder that way.

More details of evidence revealed in George Wagner IV motion hearing

During cross-examination by Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa, Scheiderer said that the Wagners were very suspicious of being wire tapped and were engaged in counter-surveillance to avoid detection. He indicated that evidence suggests that preparation for the murders began to take place in February 2016.

“The Wagner family, through what we found in the investigation as well as their own admittance, is (that) they are very close … There has not been a period of time where George Wagner has not lived with his brother or his mother. Now, at that time he was not living with his father except the night of the murders his father was there.”

Scheiderer said that the Wagners’ finances were intermingled and that they worked together, lived together, homeschooled together, and raised their kids together.

“Everything was done together,” he said.

According to Scheiderer, George IV had been married, and he indicated that when George and his wife divorced there were some child custody issues, with the mother giving up all of her parental rights to George IV. Scheiderer indicated that the mother of the child was not represented by an attorney but that George was. He said that George IV’s wife fled the residence after she and George had an argument and Angela Wagner allegedly made a comment that she was going to kill her.

How Enmeshed Families Function

When Family Relationships Become Toxic: The Trauma of Enmeshment - GoodTherapy.org Therapy Blog

​

In my opinion, this is just another low-down attempt to strike at JW. But I doubt there's anything Canepa thinks the other three Wagners won't do to try to stop JW from testifying the TRUTH. I think Nash's actions will only harden him more against his worthless brother. Jake knows everything his brother said and did. And he is willing to testify. Cold hard facts

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM

Well then who ultimately do you think decides if George goes to trial? It is certainly not G4 or his attorneys.

Who has the power to make that ultimate decision? Whether G4 goes to trial or not? IMO that decision is 100% in the hands of the Prosecution.

Right now going to trial is G4's ONLY choice.

I have never suggested he is/will be "forced" to take a plea, he doesn't even have that option now.

Who do you think is denying G4's Constitutional right to a fair trial?
JMO, MOO

The attorneys and Judge Deering are careful, no one is denying George's Constitutional right to a fair trial. No one is forcing him to sign a plea. These are death penalty attorneys who know how to conduct themselves so no defendant can appeal on the grounds of bad counsel. Deering dots all his I's and crosses all his T's, running the court very professionally.

Your Quote:

"Well then who ultimately do you think decides if George goes to trial? It is certainly not G4 or his attorneys.
Who has the power to make that ultimate decision? Whether G4 goes to trial or not? IMO that decision is 100% in the hands of the Prosecution."

It has already been decided 2 1/2 years ago that the 4 Wagner's are going to trial and the defense, prosecutors, Scheiderer and Judge Deering etc...have been going to court for 2 1/2 years getting ready for the trials.

The 6th Amendment of the Constitution says George can go to trial. Judge Deering will make sure George gets his trial as he will be presiding over it. Canepa will be right there presenting evidence to the jury and cross examining any witnesses who take the stand.

George's attorneys expect to be at his trial trying to raise reasonable doubt for the jurors.

People will get called for jury duty on the case.

The whole trial is already in the pipe line. There are 2 1/2 years of Motions to guide what can and cannot be admissable at trial, literally dozens of Motions that Deering has ruled on.

The court has a Docket and if there is a trial, if he really doesn't plead and really goes to trial (remains to be seen) the Pike Common Pleas Court will assign a date for the trial.

All this Discovery evidence the prosecution handed over is to disclose to the defense what will be presented at trial, George has the right to know what evidence he is up against. George's attorney filed a Motion to get Jake's statements so they know what they are up against when Jake takes the witness stand at trial.

Every hearing we have seen has been to get ready for trial.
RN is set to testify at trial with her testimony under seal right now. There are other documents under seal that will be disclosed at trial.

There are witnessess the prosecution has to disclosed and they will get subpoenas to testify at trial. Anyone who discovered a crime scene is a witness according to the AG's office.

The defense and prosecution and Judge Deering have spent 2 1/2 years getting ready for all 4 trials.

Most defendants take plea deals and never do go to trial as this was the case with Jake. Right now George and Angela and Billy's attorneys are filing Motions getting ready for trial unless they took pleas we don't know about yet.

The 3 might avoid trial and sign a plea agreement but if they want to take it to trial Judge Deering, jurors, prosecution, defense, evidence, witnesses, the experts etc...will all be ready to go.

The attorneys for George want a trial date so they can get on with his trial.

The trials for the Wagners have already been decided and are going forward, slow but sure, nothing will stop them unless they take a plea deal and the families approve the plea deal.

• Criminal Law
• Aggravating and Mitigating Factors
• Bail and Bonds
• Restitution for Crime Victims
• Plea Bargains

Stages of a Criminal Trial | Justia

Voir Dire
Opening Statements

• Prosecution Evidence and Witnesses
• Motion For Directed Verdict
• Defense Evidence and Witnesses
• Closing Arguments
• Jury Charge
• Jury Deliberations and Verdict
• Post-Trial Motions
• See more on justia.com

 

[Ann99]

The attorneys and Judge Deering are careful, no one is denying George's Constitutional right to a fair trial. No one is forcing him to sign a plea. These are death penalty attorneys who know how to conduct themselves so no defendant can appeal on the grounds of bad counsel. Deering dots all his I's and crosses all his T's, running the court very professionally.

Your Quote:

"Well then who ultimately do you think decides if George goes to trial? It is certainly not G4 or his attorneys.
Who has the power to make that ultimate decision? Whether G4 goes to trial or not? IMO that decision is 100% in the hands of the Prosecution."

It has already been decided 2 1/2 years ago that the 4 Wagner's are going to trial and the defense, prosecutors, Scheiderer and Judge Deering etc...have been going to court for 2 1/2 years getting ready for the trials.

The 6th Amendment of the Constitution says George can go to trial. Judge Deering will make sure George gets his trial as he will be presiding over it. Canepa will be right there presenting evidence to the jury and cross examining any witnesses who take the stand.

George's attorneys expect to be at his trial trying to raise reasonable doubt for the jurors.

People will get called for jury duty on the case.

The whole trial is already in the pipe line. There are 2 1/2 years of Motions to guide what can and cannot be admissable at trial, literally dozens of Motions that Deering has ruled on.

The court has a Docket and if there is a trial, if he really doesn't plead and really goes to trial (remains to be seen) the Pike Common Pleas Court will assign a date for the trial.

All this Discovery evidence the prosecution handed over is to disclose to the defense what will be presented at trial, George has the right to know what evidence he is up against. George's attorney filed a Motion to get Jake's statements so they know what they are up against when Jake takes the witness stand at trial.

Every hearing we have seen has been to get ready for trial.
RN is set to testify at trial with her testimony under seal right now. There are other documents under seal that will be disclosed at trial.

There are witnessess the prosecution has to disclosed and they will get subpoenas to testify at trial. Anyone who discovered a crime scene is a witness according to the AG's office.

The defense and prosecution and Judge Deering have spent 2 1/2 years getting ready for all 4 trials.

Most defendants take plea deals and never do go to trial as this was the case with Jake. Right now George and Angela and Billy's attorneys are filing Motions getting ready for trial unless they took pleas we don't know about yet.

The 3 might avoid trial and sign a plea agreement but if they want to take it to trial Judge Deering, jurors, prosecution, defense, evidence, witnesses, the experts etc...will all be ready to go.

The attorneys for George want a trial date so they can get on with his trial.

The trials for the Wagners have already been decided and are going forward, slow but sure, nothing will stop them unless they take a plea deal and the families approve the plea deal.

• Criminal Law
• Aggravating and Mitigating Factors
• Bail and Bonds
• Restitution for Crime Victims
• Plea Bargains

Stages of a Criminal Trial | Justia

Voir Dire
Opening Statements

• Prosecution Evidence and Witnesses
• Motion For Directed Verdict
• Defense Evidence and Witnesses
• Closing Arguments
• Jury Charge
• Jury Deliberations and Verdict
• Post-Trial Motions
• See more on justia.com

CC
This is helpful. TY.
I have not seen this mentioned- I may have missed it. In reference to the info. Nash has requested and the recent subpoena for the upcoming hearing for GW4.
I am thinking of Attorney privilege and Attorney work product. Can you take a look at these terms?
MO. Judge Deering will have to look at the documents/video, (whatever) and listen to the audio and justify his opinion, I think.
CC, or anyone...?

 

[Covert Operative]

06/16/2021 CO-DEFENDANT EDWARD "JAKE" WAGNER'S MOTION TO QUASH SUBPOENAS FILED Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W

 

[Covert Operative]

*Moderator approved documents obtained from court view*

 

[GoBuckeyes]

BBM

But ultimately if there is a trial it is George's call.

I respectfully disagree with you here, I don't think it is George's decision whether or not to go to trial. That call will be made by AC and the Rhoden/Gilley/Manley families. It's their call whether or not to accept any proposed plea deal.

I am very curious about AW's list of people she would like to communicate with.

Fred? I was under the impression AW and FW did not like each other much. I'd be curious why she would like to talk to her. Angie has got to know their conversations will be monitored and recorded. I sense she is not faring well in jail.

JMO, MOO

However, G4 has to take a plea deal. If he doesn't, the trial will proceed.

 

[Ann99]

*Moderator approved documents obtained from court view*

Ty! It will be interesting to see how Nash responds, how he attempts to justify.
Deering is going to be busy. I look forward to Nash's response and then the Courts Ruling.
Does anyone know how Canepa fits into this?
Does the Prosecutor get to have an opinion?
Is the Plea deal partially Canepa's product?

 

[Cool Cats]

CC
This is helpful. TY.
I have not seen this mentioned- I may have missed it. In reference to the info. Nash has requested and the recent subpoena for the upcoming hearing for GW4.
I am thinking of Attorney privilege and Attorney work product. Can you take a look at these terms?
MO. Judge Deering will have to look at the documents/video, (whatever) and listen to the audio and justify his opinion, I think.
CC, or anyone...?

Not sure what you mean? I'm guessing here.

Nash wants Jake's testimony, all of the lawyers will want to see it. It's on the record.

The subpoena is for Jake's attorney and I have never heard of that before. Who has their co-defendant's lawyer on the stand? So weird. Wonder if it's something we can even find in a search engine?

Judge Deering has already seen Jake's testimony I am sure. What does it mean that Deering needs to justify his opinion?

Jake had all the leverage but these other 3 missed that boat.

What is the Work Product Doctrine?
What is attorney client work product doctrine?

The attorney work product doctrine is a concept within civil procedure that protects any attorney’s work product from discovery by the other litigant. Work product is defined as any tangible materials or their intangible equivalent prepared by an attorney in the anticipation and preparation for litigation.

Attorney-Client Privilege | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal ...www.law.cornell.edu/wex/attorney-client_privilege

What constitutes attorney client privilege? In the law of the United States, attorney–client privilege or lawyer–client privilege is a "client's right to refuse to disclose and to prevent any other person from disclosing confidential communications between the client and the attorney."

 

[Ann99]

Not sure what you mean? I'm guessing here.

Nash wants Jake's testimony, all of the lawyers will want to see it. It's on the record.

The subpoena is for Jake's attorney and I have never heard of that before. Who has their co-defendant's lawyer on the stand? So weird. Wonder if it's something we can even find in a search engine?

Judge Deering has already seen Jake's testimony I am sure. What does it mean that Deering needs to justify his opinion?

Jake had all the leverage but these other 3 missed that boat.

What is the Work Product Doctrine?
What is attorney client work product doctrine?

The attorney work product doctrine is a concept within civil procedure that protects any attorney’s work product from discovery by the other litigant. Work product is defined as any tangible materials or their intangible equivalent prepared by an attorney in the anticipation and preparation for litigation.

Attorney-Client Privilege | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal ...www.law.cornell.edu/wex/attorney-client_privilege

What constitutes attorney client privilege? In the law of the United States, attorney–client privilege or lawyer–client privilege is a "client's right to refuse to disclose and to prevent any other person from disclosing confidential communications between the client and the attorney."

Im not totally familiar with these terms, so I will try to explain.

The subpoenas Nash executed were a slam dunk for State of Ohio to issue a motion to quash ( I hope I am using correct terms) as you see has already happened. The claims of attorney client priveledge and attorney work product
are made ( or words to that effect ). State of Ohio and Attorney Meyers are saying Nash has no legal basis to ask for these items.

Judge Deering, The Court, will have to decide if the subpoenas will stand as proper or if the motion to quash is valid, or something in between .
Judge Deering must have a legal basis for his decision, meaning he will have to justify the decision for the record.
If I am misunderstanding or misstating this, anyone, please feel free to correct.
I am only trying to figure it out.

 

[Ann99]

With all the developments with theses cases if FW and CN are to be witnesses would she be permitted to talk with them ? Don’t know the legality of this.

You make a good point. I can't imagine AW would have a legitimate reason to talk to them. AW needs to decide for herself if she will accept the plea deal.
If she has some medical issue to convey to her family, there could be a court supervised gathering. idk.

 

[Antimony]

If, say, GWiv had additional information regarding this crime, or other crimes, could he then bargain for a somewhat lesser sentence than LWOP? Is he stuck with LWOP or take your chances in court? He might know something big.

 

[Cool Cats]

Im not totally familiar with these terms, so I will try to explain.

The subpoenas Nash executed were a slam dunk for State of Ohio to issue a motion to quash ( I hope I am using correct terms) as you see has already happened. The claims of attorney client priveledge and attorney work product
are made ( or words to that effect ). State of Ohio is saying Nash has no legal basis to ask for these items.

Judge Deering, The Court, will have to decide if the subpoenas will stand as proper or if the motion to quash is valid, or something in between .
Judge Deering must have a legal basis for his decision, meaning he will have to justify the decision for the record.
If I am misunderstanding or misstating this, anyone, please feel free to correct.
I am only trying to figure it out.

I just read the Motion your talking about so now I know what you mean. Never heard of this stuff. I am curious and will research around.

You make a good point. I can't imagine AW would have a legitimate reason to talk to them. AW needs to decide for herself if she will accept the plea deal.
If she has some medical issue to convey to her family, there could be a court supervised gathering. idk.

Yes good point. If FW is a witness at trial then the defendants could not talk to her. Especially the Wagners who try to manipulate others into doing their bidding, even paying for attorneys.

My guess is FW paid for RN's attorney because the Wagners wanted her to stay on board in claiming she signed the custody documents. This is what they do according to the Other Acts Evidence.

Who really is the one paying? FW. So now I think FW knew all about the scheme to have Rita take blame. I'm changing my mind, I think FW is more involved than I thought. Look at all those bank statements.

As for Angela's health, she is back in jail not out at medical and it seems like she is good to go, like manipulating relatives over the phone.

She manipulated her brother into doing the 3-way call, manipulated her mother into false fraud charges that landed her on a year of house arrest. She manipulated Jake when she was monitoring Hanna's Facebook messages.

She is the one who saw Hanna say she wouldn't sign anything they would have to kill her first and ran to Jake with it, only 4 months later they shot her. But Angie showed Jake and escalated it rather than being a normal grandma and try to keep the peace....2 Cents....

 

[Everything22]

I have to wonder why Billy is so quiet now. Probably his attorneys forcing him to.

 

[Ann99]

I have to disagree. I don't think Jake has any concern for his brother GW4 after he and his attorney Nash blamed it all on JW and AW in an open court hearing. Just my opinion.

I'm not clear on how much the 4 sets of attorneys were sharing information with each other. Would Jake have known about Attorney Nash saying that?
I honestly don't know what the individual Wagners could have been aware of.
Did the gag order include Attorneys not allowed to be talking to each other?
Would Jake have had access to newspapers?
OR, if Jake was aware of GW 4 supposedly saying that - Jake could have been so mad at GW4 that he decided to confess all.
My first though was Jake acted out of concern for his brother, but...maybe not.

 

[Ann99]

If, say, GWiv had additional information regarding this crime, or other crimes, could he then bargain for a somewhat lesser sentence than LWOP? Is he stuck with LWOP or take your chances in court? He might know something big.

I bet GW4 knows plenty about other crimes, but it wont help him now.
I don't think he can get less than LWOP. It would be interesting to have a legal opinion on that. Usually the first one to "deal" gets the best and only deal.
I don't think GW4 can do better than what Jake agreed to.

 

[Everything22]

I'm not clear on how much the 4 sets of attorneys were sharing information with each other. Would Jake have known about Attorney Nash saying that?
I honestly don't know what the individual Wagners could have been aware of.
Did the gag order include Attorneys not allowed to be talking to each other?
Would Jake have had access to newspapers?
OR, if Jake was aware of GW 4 supposedly saying that - Jake could have been so mad at GW4 that he decided to confess all.
My first though was Jake acted out of concern for his brother, but...maybe not.

I don't think Jake acted haphazardly in his plea deal. Not with his attorneys (the best 2 of all) and AC. I'm beginning to think he feels remorse for what he and his family did and hopefully wants to do the right thing.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm not clear on how much the 4 sets of attorneys were sharing information with each other. Would Jake have known about Attorney Nash saying that?
I honestly don't know what the individual Wagners could have been aware of.
Did the gag order include Attorneys not allowed to be talking to each other?
Would Jake have had access to newspapers?
OR, if Jake was aware of GW 4 supposedly saying that - Jake could have been so mad at GW4 that he decided to confess all.
My first though was Jake acted out of concern for his brother, but...maybe not.

Canepa said Jake wanted to avoid the death penalty and this is the reason for his plea. Jake is concerned for Jake. Yes no doubt he's happy to get his family off of death row but then he is going to tank their trials by explaining how each one was involved.

Actually he can't down play their involvement because the prosecution would figure it out and that would go against his plea deal.

Jake got the transcripts of George's Bond Hearing.

From Docket:

It is therefore ORDERED that the Court Reporter shall prepare a transcript of the hearing held on August 31, 2020, upon the Defendant's Motion For Bond Hearing and the Motion of The State of Ohio In A Capital Case And Pursuant to Statute To Hold The Defendant Without Bail, in Case No. 2018CR000155,

captioned State of Ohio vs. George Washington Wagner IV, and shall furnish a copy of the transcript to counsel for the Defendant and a copy also to counsel for the State of Ohio. The transcript shall not include copies of exhibits introduced at such hearing, which exhibits are being held under seal.