GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

[Covert Operative]

Does anyone have an opinion on this - Were the 3 Wagner men all together at each location?
Meaning were they never out of sight of one another?
Does each W really know for certain what the other W's did or did not do that night? Who can state for certain what GW4 did or did not do? They are all liars.
Wondering if the events that were relayed or recounted to AW when they returned home were totally accurate. Wouldn't each W have a different perspective or perception of events.
MO
I would rely on Jake's version of events to be more accurate than the following 3 only because of JW being first to talk.
Kind of like in a whispering game of telephone.
MOO

I have believed since JW confession it was possible that he did not tell the truth about everything. He did have all of the state's evidence before his confession and knew what they could prove or not prove. That certainly would help a person in their confession I believe. I am sure his lawyers had been over it several times with him. BW lawyer said JW only confessed to get the DP removed for his family, that is kind of acknowledging they are guilty.

The state took it as truthful, so they either believe him or they cannot prove otherwise. I believe that is why they kept the proffer so many months, they were trying to disprove some things but never could.

 

[KYboy]

They are not asking that the other charges be dismissed, to me that is as good as admitting guilt to the other charges indirectly. He basically did the same as AW, except she stayed home and sent her hitmen to do the job.
Did not shoot and kill nobody is different than did not shoot or kill nobody to me. He may have got a shot off that did hit someone or indirectly hit someone or may just be the wording the defense used.

These educated lawyers used double negatives? Trying to confuse what they are actually saying? Geese!!!

 

[Caylee Advocate]

For those of you who followed the missing girls in Southern Ohio.



OH - OH - Megan Lancaster, 25, Scioto County, 3 April 2013

 

[Chelly]

Perhaps someone with more gun knowledge can chime in on this for you.

I would say yes but not sure how much front spatter with a 22. I think a bullet wound can produce both front and backspatter, if the bullet exits. I would think the majority of the blood spatter would come out at the exit wound if there was one.

In this case since we do not know the position of the head, the bedding could have absorbed the majority of the spatter or it could have went on the baby or the other person in the bed.

We really do not know which way they were laying but from the sketch shown in bond hearing it seems like FR/HG head could have been on the side when found but it is hard to tell.

We know RR was covered in blood from what BJM said. He also may have blood on him from being in the bed where it soaked in. The picture of the blue glove hand in bond hearing holding the cartridge appears that it may be taken at the bed. It appears that would be blood soaked bedding that is seen.

I captured these shots from the bond hearing and have several more of different things.
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details | WKRC (local12.com) Bond hearing video is in this article.

@Covert Operative Thank you very much for explaining this.

 

[Dudly]

Perhaps someone with more gun knowledge can chime in on this for you.

I would say yes but not sure how much front spatter with a 22. I think a bullet wound can produce both front and backspatter, if the bullet exits. I would think the majority of the blood spatter would come out at the exit wound if there was one.

In this case since we do not know the position of the head, the bedding could have absorbed the majority of the spatter or it could have went on the baby or the other person in the bed.

We really do not know which way they were laying but from the sketch shown in bond hearing it seems like FR/HG head could have been on the side when found but it is hard to tell.

We know RR was covered in blood from what BJM said. He also may have blood on him from being in the bed where it soaked in. The picture of the blue glove hand in bond hearing holding the cartridge appears that it may be taken at the bed. It appears that would be blood soaked bedding that is seen.

I captured these shots from the bond hearing and have several more of different things.
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details | WKRC (local12.com) Bond hearing video is in this article.

One of the reasons a .22 is used for head shots is that the bullet does not have enough power to enter and exit. It bounces around in the skull doing more damage than passing straight through. With multiple entry wounds and the brain being shredded from bullets bouncing around, there would be a lot of blood loss quick...

 

[Ann99]

Perhaps someone with more gun knowledge can chime in on this for you.

I would say yes but not sure how much front spatter with a 22. I think a bullet wound can produce both front and backspatter, if the bullet exits. I would think the majority of the blood spatter would come out at the exit wound if there was one.

In this case since we do not know the position of the head, the bedding could have absorbed the majority of the spatter or it could have went on the baby or the other person in the bed.

We really do not know which way they were laying but from the sketch shown in bond hearing it seems like FR/HG head could have been on the side when found but it is hard to tell.

We know RR was covered in blood from what BJM said. He also may have blood on him from being in the bed where it soaked in. The picture of the blue glove hand in bond hearing holding the cartridge appears that it may be taken at the bed. It appears that would be blood soaked bedding that is seen.

I captured these shots from the bond hearing and have several more of different things.
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details | WKRC (local12.com) Bond hearing video is in this article.

These are great captures. TY.
No idea of the meaning of the numbers, especially since they are not all consecutive. I assume they are shots from the 22.
10 11 12 Then, 19 20
Why the gap in numbers?
Any thoughts? I may be off base on this...

 

[Covert Operative]

One of the reasons a .22 is used for head shots is that the bullet does not have enough power to enter and exit. It bounces around in the skull doing more damage than passing straight through. With multiple entry wounds and the brain being shredded from bullets bouncing around, there would be a lot of blood loss quick...

Would there be a lot of spatter?

 

[Covert Operative]

These are great captures. TY.
No idea of the meaning of the numbers, especially since they are not all consecutive. I assume they are shots from the 22.
10 11 12 Then, 19 20
Why the gap in numbers?
Any thoughts? I may be off base on this...

Not sure why a gap, but there were 5 shell casings found and I assume that is what those tags are. They may have tagged some other evidence in between tagging all the casings.

Kind of like bucket one that is missing, ha.

 

[Ann99]

Not sure why a gap, but there were 5 shell casings found and I assume that is what those tags are. They may have tagged some other evidence in between tagging all the casings.

Kind of like bucket one that is missing, ha.

ok yes, shell casings, not shots.

 

[Covert Operative]

ok yes, shell casings, not shots.

They could have been working one side of the room/bed at the time and tagged some other evidence before moving to the other side, and that is why the gap in the numbers. Other than that I cannot think of why.

 

[Cool Cats]

Gary was shot with heavier caliber bullets and this told BCI that 2 different guns were used at the 1st crime scene, Chris Sr's. I have always wondered who used this heavier caliber? George or Billy?

I found this from the Bond Hearing regarding a heavier caliber.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details
Time Stamp 1:10

Scheiderer:
So at this location (Chris SR's) we have evidence that a 30 caliber rifle was used at this location. We also have evidence that a Glock 40 caliber firearm was fired and we recovered bullet fragments of the 30 caliber as well as the 40 caliber and a casing from the 40 caliber cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok and I believe you already testified that - that 40 caliber was determined to be fired from a Glock.

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
Ok and then you said a 30 caliber - was there an opinion about the projectile from the 30 caliber?

Scheiderer:
Yah it was a metallic cartridge and it was believed to be a military style round like a 7.62 cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
There was other 30 calibers that were eliminated as potential contributors.

Canepa:
Ok and specifically because that's a little bit heavier weight.

Scheiderer:
Yes it was a - yes it was a heavier - yes.

Canepa:
And can you tell us where were those - where was the ballistic evidence found at scene one?

Scheiderer:
In the living room which is the primary room of the residence and then also on the front porch leading up to the residence.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
And - and underneath the residence there was also a bullet retrieved from the dirt underneath the residence.

 

[Betty P]

And if G4 was standing around shooting nobody, doing nothing he could have picked up the babies.

GW4 didn't pick them up because he didn't care about them. They were just collateral damage to him and the other Wagners. If he cared for them at all he wouldn't have helped kill the babies' parents.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

GW4 didn't pick them up because he didn't care about them. They were just collateral damage to him and the other Wagners. If he cared for them at all he wouldn't have helped kill the babies' parents.

JMO

And why would it not occur to him that he could get caught by LE and be separated from the only kid he did have feelings for?

How can you think you won't get caught? Obviously he didn't know about BCI and was incredibly angry at them for questioning his family and treating them as suspects after their initial time of being left alone.

 

[Dudly]

Would there be a lot of spatter?

I really don’t know how much there would be. I am sure that exit wounds would cause the most. That said, each extra shot would give another opening for blood to come out.

 

[Antimony]

Scheiderer:
"Yah it was a metallic cartridge and it was believed to be a military style round like a 7.62 cartridge."

I think the Special Investigator is referring to a type of bullet used by the military.
Called a "Ball" or "Full Metal Jacket", This type of bullet is specified by the Geneva Conventions on warfare.

 

[Cool Cats]

Scheiderer:
"Yah it was a metallic cartridge and it was believed to be a military style round like a 7.62 cartridge."

I think the Special Investigator is referring to a type of bullet used by the military.
Called a "Ball" or "Full Metal Jacket", This type of bullet is specified by the Geneva Conventions on warfare.

They searched the well/cistern on 2 different days. The first time they used a metal detector and found a rifle casing - during testimony it was also referred to as a metal jacket - that encased the actual bullet. It was 7.62 by 39 for a 30 caliber and was burnt, exposed to fire/heat of some sort. It matches the ballistics found at scene #1, Chris Sr's.

 

[Betty P]

And why would it not occur to him that he could get caught by LE and be separated from the only kid he did have feelings for?

How can you think you won't get caught? Obviously he didn't know about BCI and was incredibly angry at them for questioning his family and treating them as suspects after their initial time of being left alone.

JMO, it comes from a sense of entitlement and hubris that spans generations. GW4 comes from a family that has a lot of wealth, one that has a lot of power and influence. Other family members had no problems "bending the law" to their benefit and committing other crimes. Combined with their detailed planning, they felt impervious.

They thought they were much smarter than LE. An enmeshed family, they had generational brainwashing that convinced them they were superior to everyone else in every way - morally, intellectually, etc. It's also why they went to such extremes to control their "bloodline", ie the grandchildren. They felt their family was superior and thus needed to be raised by them to protect those gifted qualities.

They weren't crazy, they were just a bunch of arrogant, narcissistic jerks.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

So GW4 was offered Life Without Parole if he was to pleaded guilty, but that is not good enough for that man, he is not guilty in GW4s mind, he didn’t do anything wrong, so if George thinks like that GW4 will kill again if he is not convicted, GW4 is just as guilty as JW, prison justices is waiting on all 4 Wagners, I think that George and Billy fear prison the most,JMO

 

[LMDlong]

So GW4 was offered Life Without Parole if he was to pleaded guilty, but that is not good enough for that man, he is not guilty in GW4s mind, he didn’t do anything wrong, so if George thinks like that GW4 will kill again if he is not convicted, GW4 is just as guilty as JW, prison justices is waiting on all 4 Wagners, I think that George and Billy fear prison the most,JMO

Interesting

 

[Cool Cats]

So GW4 was offered Life Without Parole if he was to pleaded guilty, but that is not good enough for that man, he is not guilty in GW4s mind, he didn’t do anything wrong, so if George thinks like that GW4 will kill again if he is not convicted, GW4 is just as guilty as JW, prison justices is waiting on all 4 Wagners, I think that George and Billy fear prison the most,JMO

His attorneys say he didn't shoot or kill anybody but they do not say

"George was not at the crime scenes that night."

Just being at the crime scenes will get him convicted of murder plus there are 14 other charges his attorneys will need to address during trial.

George can't get Angie's deal, George was there on UHR that night.

We don't know what Jake said about George shooting but it seems quite apparent that Jake is saying George was there.

Jake's testimony is that all of them were involved with the murders. Angela's testimony is that all of them were involved with the murders. Angie's testimony matches Jake's. Jake's testimony matches Angies.

Both Angela and Jake have testimony that places George leaving Peterson Rd. that night with Jake and Billy and 3 guns and at least 2 silencers.

Jake led BCI to the 3 guns used that night. The 2 silencers also because as George said:

"If they have the gun they have the silencer."

As I say, nothing is coming up showing George sat home with Angie. Not from Angie's testimony and not from Jake's.