GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #67

[Johnny B Bad]

I bet GW4 sure does miss his XBox games, Mr Bad to the Bone is not so Bad Now Is He????

 

[Antimony]

Maybe the move to Dayton was to be near a federal court for indictment on yet another crime not related to the massacre?

 

[Ann99]

Maybe the move to Dayton was to be near a federal court for indictment on yet another crime not related to the massacre?

Complete speculation on my part.
Remember the “Highway” gun purchase?
I am thinking the “ other bad acts” supposedly to be revealed by AW will include serious gun running or multi state illegal gun purchases, sales.
Just my thought.

 

[Betty P]

Maybe the move to Dayton was to be near a federal court for indictment on yet another crime not related to the massacre?

It's possible, but I thought Pike County is in the jurisdiction of the federal court in Cincinnati. ICBW, though. Dayton and Columbus are also part of the Southern District.

Cincinnati | Southern District of Ohio | United States District Court

 

[IType]

He actually did ask for isolation. Asked for solitary to be able to do what he wants and to read his Bible. Even if he changed his mind they will put him in solitary if they think it is necessary for security. Sheriff runs the show.

His asking for isolation has always seemed odd to me. I don't really believe he only wanted to be all by himself just to read his bible. I've always thought it was to keep him separated from another inmate who was giving him a rough time, in one way or another. IMO, GW4 found out he wasn't such a hotshot without his daddy and grandma to protect him. If my feeling on this happens to be correct, then moving GW4 to another location for security reasons certainly makes sense.

I also agree with CO's statement a few posts back that maybe GW4's recent mysterious trip to the courthouse could be related to his recent relocation. Not exactly sure how, but two mysterious events in such a short span of time sure seem related to me.

All JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

His asking for isolation has always seemed odd to me. I don't really believe he only wanted to be all by himself just to read his bible. I've always thought it was to keep him separated from another inmate who was giving him a rough time, in one way or another. IMO, GW4 found out he wasn't such a hotshot without his daddy and grandma to protect him. If my feeling on this happens to be correct, then moving GW4 to another location for security reasons certainly makes sense.

I also agree with CO's statement a few posts back that maybe GW4's recent mysterious trip to the courthouse could be related to his recent relocation. Not exactly sure how, but two mysterious events in such a short span of time sure seem related to me.

All JMO

It also makes it seem like he is reaching out for a deal. He could have met in private to discuss a deal then asked for a better living situation, not unheard of when cooperating. Soon as Angela cooperated she got her phone and mail back.

This is the time for him to seriously think about cooperation. To decide if trial is worth the risk, the risk of being found guilty of the 8 murders when a plea could possibly offer him a deal that would get him out in 27 years.

I think he is smart enough to know he has little chance to win at trial. Too much evidence, too many charges and the crimes are too heinous.

Taped conversations, Jake and Angela placing him at the scenes, shoes, nightscope, mask, 3 guns, doing everything together, prior acts, various witnesses etc...

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes that's a very good point Betty and one I always struggle with- that plausible deniability. On one hand knowing everything allows you to never be surprised, but it also undermines your attorney client privilege IF EXPOSED. That's the key because some lawyers will stick to the "everyone deserves a competent defense" as a way of rationalizing assisting a killer. Don't ask don't tell type. What really makes this case so enfuriating is the Ohio death penalty law. In my home state g4 would have two options public pretender or pay for primo lawyer. This Ohio system sets up a situation where the criminal and defense attorney are in a symbiotic relationship. The more time parker spends on case the more money he makes. All of that time comes free to g4 tho he's also benefitting from the dp lawyer. Don't get me wrong they all deserve to die, but in reality even if they get the dp it's unlikely to be carried out. At the same time how could you arrest someone for 8 aggravated murders and not seek dp? It's a catch 22.
I just feel so badly for the whole family. Torn apart in the media especially Bobbi jo and James. <modsnip>

Having the DP paid off in the way it always does. The defendant will plead guilty to get the DP off the table sparing the family a trial. Jake pled guilty simply to avoid the DP which may not have happened otherwise.

State's like having it for that kind of leverage but they now lost that leverage with Billy and George. Billy and George have less to lose now at trial but they have to weigh it against getting a better deal with a plea.

 

[Piffcat]

Having the DP paid off in the way it always does. The defendant will plead guilty to get the DP off the table sparing the family a trial. Jake pled guilty simply to avoid the DP which may not have happened otherwise.

State's like having it for that kind of leverage but they now lost that leverage with Billy and George. Billy and George have less to lose now at trial but they have to weigh it against getting a better deal with a plea.

I agree the death penalty worked wonders for hake. But the decision came at a cost for the prosecution as they now had 8 primo lawyers with large investigative departments paralegals vs. 2 noble prosecutors with much more limited capabilities. The dp also means they couldn't be tried together which could have been a HUGE advantage for the state. This is on a tactical theory and real world reasoning knowing yhe dp will never be carried out irregardless due to moratorium. The biggest advantage of the dp in my opinion is relief for the families. People on death row don't parole. There's always in the back of the minds for murder victim survivors. Even if it's not rational or realistic fact is people sentenced to life without parole do sometimes get parole. Now if I was In charge I would have arrested jake for 8 dp murders and Stat rape going for dp. The other 3 demons would be tried without dp denying them access to free primo lawyers and finger pointing in seperate trial. Puts the same pressure on jake to flip which worked wonderfully, then you've got the 9ther 3 on trial together while jake testifies in one trial against all 3. 4 lwop verdicts would be an almost certainty. With only 1 trial to put family thru.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Coulda' Shoulda' Woulda'. What's gonna' happen next? Stay tuned!! ........Yawn

 

[altojack]

Maybe the move to Dayton was to be near a federal court for indictment on yet another crime not related to the massacre?

I like the way you're thinking Antimony, there's got to be a reason he's been sent there.

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree the death penalty worked wonders for hake. But the decision came at a cost for the prosecution as they now had 8 primo lawyers with large investigative departments paralegals vs. 2 noble prosecutors with much more limited capabilities. The dp also means they couldn't be tried together which could have been a HUGE advantage for the state. This is on a tactical theory and real world reasoning knowing yhe dp will never be carried out irregardless due to moratorium. The biggest advantage of the dp in my opinion is relief for the families. People on death row don't parole. There's always in the back of the minds for murder victim survivors. Even if it's not rational or realistic fact is people sentenced to life without parole do sometimes get parole. Now if I was In charge I would have arrested jake for 8 dp murders and Stat rape going for dp. The other 3 demons would be tried without dp denying them access to free primo lawyers and finger pointing in seperate trial. Puts the same pressure on jake to flip which worked wonderfully, then you've got the 9ther 3 on trial together while jake testifies in one trial against all 3. 4 lwop verdicts would be an almost certainty. With only 1 trial to put family thru.

Very Interesting.

I think your way means all 4 couldn't have been charged as co-conspirators and for some reason they thought this was important so they would be able to level 22 charges against all of them.

For example, if one or 2 of them didn't really do every single crime it doesn't matter because as co-conspirators they all get charged equally for all 22 counts, Jake 23.

Angie didn't shoot anyone but she was still charged with 8 murders.
Angie didn't do other things associated with being at the crime scenes like tampering with evidence and burglary but she is still guilty of those 2 crimes.

George might not have done any surveillance on any of them but he is still charged with the 2 crimes of unauthorized use of property and interception of wire, oral and electronic communications.

 

[Berrybell]

There were some other fires that he may potentially have insight into more closely related to the 4W’s, IMO:

The fire referenced for the kennel is 12/17/05
https://web.archive.org/web/20060221074754/http://whitepineskennel.com/

There was also a vehicle (truck) fire at the 845 address 12/28/08.
845 Bethel Hill Rd, Lucasville OH owners history, phone number, price, property info and neighbourghood | Homemetry

The Wags could also have been arsonist or other insurance fraud for hire.

 

[Cool Cats]

The Wags could also have been arsonist or other insurance fraud for hire.

Interesting point. I think they kept to themselves and did their crimes secretly between the 4 of them which is why they were so confident in planning and committing the 22 crimes in their criminal conspiracy.

The Wagner Crime Family, all for one and one for all.

They only committed arson on their own property according to the Other Acts Evidence.

#1) Multiple instances of arson of various properties of their own for financial gain.

 

[Covert Operative]

The Wags could also have been arsonist or other insurance fraud for hire.

Good thought, the items on the other acts listed were pre AW and JW confession. There could be other things that were told after the other acts document.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Looks like I might have a chance to see George go down after all.

I finally got a surgery date. So everyone raise a glass, 7:00 AM CST Jan 10. Here's hoping I come out alive and they can repair my heart enough to give me another year or so. If all goes well I might even get to see Billy bite the dust. My older sister's went well so maybe mine will too.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Yes his Glock.

He helped hide and destroyed evidence that night no doubt amongst other things that night:

George was there participating in 8 aggravated murders, using a dangerous ordnance, committing burglary, unlawful use of property, tampering with crime scenes, obstruction of justice, hiding evidence, destroying evidence, being a lookout, being a driver, intimidating victims, leaving an infant and 6 month old in blood for 8 hours in danger of smothering, and a 3 year old in danger of getting hurt and/or wandering away, and deliberately leaving him to be traumatized seeing his parents which did happen. Pike County 3-year-old: 'I picked up daddy's hand, and

Racking up so many felonies my wrist gets tired typing them:

COUNT 1 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 2 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 3 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 4 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 5 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 6 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 7 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 8 - AGGRAVATED MURDER
COUNT 9 - CONSPIRACY
COUNT 10 - AGGRAVATED BURGLARY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3
COUNT 11 - AGGRAVATED BURGLARY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3
COUNT 12 - AGGRAVATED BURGLARY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3
COUNT 13 - AGGRAVATED BURGLARY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3
COUNT 14 - UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF DANGEROUS ORDNANCE - Suppressor
COUNT 15 - TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE - Items belonging to the victims,
Phones, Cameras
COUNT 16 - TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE - Custody Documents
COUNT 17 - TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE - Silencer, Shell Casings, Parts of Hone Security System
COUNT 18 - FORGERY
COUNT 19 - UNAUTHORIZED USE OF PROPERTY - Cable and Computer Systems, Telecommunications Service, Social Media Accounts
COUNT 20 - INTERCEPTION OF WIRE, ORAL, OR ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS
COUNT 21- OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE
COUNT 22 - ENGAGING IN A PATTERN OF CORRUPT ACTIVITY SPECIFICATION 1,2,3

The feeling of relief when he is sentenced to LWOP....... WOW ... !

My opinion this will be the outcome of his trial.

It's worth looking at this part of the definition of aggravated murder in Ohio: "No person shall purposely, and with prior calculation and design, cause the death of another...". That definition is not about whether the defendant did the shooting, but "purposely, and with prior calculation and design, cause the death of another." That's going to include involvement in any aspect of the crime and its planning. So if (for a minimal example) G4 blocked the cell signals or sabotaged the security cameras, that's part of "causing the deaths" of 8 people.

 

[Cool Cats]

It's worth looking at this part of the definition of aggravated murder in Ohio: "No person shall purposely, and with prior calculation and design, cause the death of another...". That definition is not about whether the defendant did the shooting, but "purposely, and with prior calculation and design, cause the death of another." That's going to include involvement in any aspect of the crime and its planning. So if (for a minimal example) G4 blocked the cell signals or sabotaged the security cameras, that's part of "causing the deaths" of 8 people.

Good point. Nice to see you post.

Also, the prosecution is not saying George didn't shoot, they allude to him shooting. I believe they will pull the "rabbit out of the hat" at trial to show this.

But as you mention, he is already guilty of the definition of aggravated murder in Ohio.

Rhoden killings: Attorney for George Wagner IV says prosecutors 'made a deal with the devil'

(No wonder George looked so irritated abruptly walking out for his new cell in his new jail Montgomery.)

In a brief but fiery hearing in Pike County Common Pleas Court Wednesday, a defense attorney argued that pursuing aggravated murder charges and the death penalty against the oldest brother charged in the Rhoden family homicides of 2016 is "an absolute abuse of power" by prosecutors.

But Judge Randy D. Deering disagreed.

After the roughly 35-minute hearing, Deering ruled that the aggravated murder charges would stand against 30-year-old George Wagner IV, and that the death penalty remains an option.

The defense lawyers say that Jake Wagner told prosecutors during his confession (which prosecutors call a proffer) that George Wagner IV didn't shoot anyone that night.

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

Prior to Wednesday's hearing, defense attorneys Richard Nash and John Parker had asked the judge to allow Jake Wagner to testify in court about what his brother did and did not do the night of the homicides. The judge denied that request.

So at the start of the hearing, Parker started to read aloud in court 10 excerpts of Jake Wagner's 12-hour confession. Canepa objected and fired back, saying it was clear the attorneys wanted to try the case before it ever got to trial.

The judge did not allow the excerpts to be read.

 

[Cool Cats]

The 3 Mugshots of George Wagner. The second one was taken right after Jake's court confession and I always thought this photo of George reflected that knowledge.




• 4 members of the Wagner family arrested, charged with Pike County murders
• Ross County, Ohio, Sheriff - Persons Currently In Custody
• Montgomery County Sheriff Rob Streck - Persons In Custody

 

[Johnny B Bad]

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Here GW4 is looking over his shoulder at the Prosecutor’s, do you think GW4 has revenge thought going thur his mind?

 

[Cool Cats]

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Here GW4 is looking over his shoulder at the Prosecutor’s, do you think GW4 has revenge thought going thur his mind?

I have seen this several times from his arraignment. He is looking at his attorney who is standing and speaking. It seems to me he is angry in general that he is arrested, that he has to be at an arraignment, his arraignment!

Remember he wasn't sopose to be arrested. He would take revenge and try a jail breakout.

Scheiderer did say he believed George has violent tendencies and that George threatened to smash his face in. Jury will most likely hear all of it.

George looking angry in his October hearing.

George Wagner IV Hearing Scheduled for Lord Wagner Murder Case - Ohio News Time