OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #69

[Cool Cats]

He was charged with burglary and deaths occurred during that burglary he participated in so according to this, he is guilty of Felony Murder….

Absolutely. Ohio law. This is aggravated murder with weapons, silencers and burglary.

Section 2911.11 - Ohio Revised Code | Ohio Laws

codes.ohio.gov

Section 2911.11 | Aggravated burglary.​

(A) No person, by force, stealth, or deception, shall trespass in an occupied structure or in a separately secured or separately occupied portion of an occupied structure, when another person other than an accomplice of the offender is present, with purpose to commit in the structure or in the separately secured or separately occupied portion of the structure any criminal offense, if any of the following apply:

(1) The offender inflicts, or attempts or threatens to inflict physical harm on another;

(2) The offender has a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance on or about the offender's person or under the offender's control.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of aggravated burglary, a felony of the first degree.

(C) As used in this section:

(1) "Occupied structure" has the same meaning as in section 2909.01 of the Revised Code.

(2) "Deadly weapon" and "dangerous ordnance" have the same meanings as in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

But the jury will not be the Wagner family's kin/clan. They have no loyalty to them. It will be seen as one clan unfairly and using unfair measures to kill off another clan.

They can't allow that. To allow that means any clan can just kill off another clan for no reason.

Kin stick together but no juror will be kin to the Wagners. The jurors will see it was cold blooded aggravated murder and George for whatever reason was there participating. And in Ohio it is felony/aggravated murder just because he committed felony/aggravated burglary and people were killed. Link above.

Felony Murder

A person commits felony murder (murder) if any death (even an accidental one) results from the commission of certain violent felonies -- such as arson, burglary, kidnapping, rape, and robbery.

The fact George was there during aggravated robbery and people were killed is enough for an aggravated murder conviction.

He was part of that burglary and it doesn't matter that he may not have shot a victim himself.

We have that same law on the books here but it doesn't even have to be a felony for them to be charged.

I am not disagreeing that George will be convicted on all counts but I somehow believe that social mores and norms will figure into the sentencing phase via a jury recommendation.

Maybe because I am from Oklahoma where Judge Parker reigned supreme when this was the wild and wooly west.
Justice was meted out on different levels. For instance if you killed a man in a face to face gunfight kudos to you. But if you shot him in the back, then saddle up the posse, find a new rope and a tall oak tree.

I considered the family first norm of the region and believed it would make the jury more understanding of George's position but as @ohioexpat63 pointed out there were breastfeeding mothers who were killed.

Isaac Parker – Hanging Judge of Indian Territory – Legends of America

Judge Isaac Parker, often called the 'Hanging Judge,' from Fort Smith, Arkansas ruled over the lawless land of Indian Territory in the late 1800s.

www.legendsofamerica.com

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

He was charged with burglary and deaths occurred during that burglary he participated in so according to this, he is guilty of Felony Murder….

@Dudly my brother, I think you are correct in this. I was thinking more of the jury and what sympathies they might have in the sentencing phase.

BTW I hope you are doing well. Are you getting along any better now?

Raize

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

We have that same law on the books here but it doesn't even have to be a felony for them to be charged.

I am not disagreeing that George will be convicted on all counts but I somehow believe that social mores and norms will figure into the sentencing phase via a jury recommendation.

Maybe because I am from Oklahoma where Judge Parker reigned supreme when this was the wild and wooly west.
Justice was meted out on different levels. For instance if you killed a man in a face to face gunfight kudos to you. But if you shot him in the back, then saddle up the posse, find a new rope and a tall oak tree.

I considered the family first norm of the region and believed it would make the jury more understanding of George's position but as @ohioexpat63 pointed out there were breastfeeding mothers who were killed.

Isaac Parker – Hanging Judge of Indian Territory – Legends of America

Judge Isaac Parker, often called the 'Hanging Judge,' from Fort Smith, Arkansas ruled over the lawless land of Indian Territory in the late 1800s.

www.legendsofamerica.com

JMO

BBM
"but I somehow believe that social mores and norms will figure into the sentencing phase via a jury recommendation"

The jury decides the charges to convict on and then the prosecution and defense argue the sentence, then the judge has sentencing guidelines he has to follow.

I don't think the jury has any say to any of the sentencing.

Not easy to find specific information on this but this is how it looks from what I have read.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
"but I somehow believe that social mores and norms will figure into the sentencing phase via a jury recommendation"

The jury decides the charges to convict on and then the prosecution and defense argue the sentence, then the judge has sentencing guidelines he has to follow.

I don't think the jury has any say to any of the sentencing.

Not easy to find specific information on this but this is how it looks from what I have read.

Here the jury can make a recommendation to the judge who does the sentencing. Usually, but not always, the judge follows the jury's recommendation.

Maybe one of our resident WS attorneys can weigh in on this or someone from Ohio that has knowledge on this matter.

JMO

 

[Piffcat]

with the most recent information that has come out in hearings shows just how intricatly involved g4 was. they modified a truck to allow jake and g4 fit inside and not be detected and kill crsr from a distance in cold blood.even 3 on 1 they were still scared enough of crsr to notf confront him 1 to 1 close up. instead, g4 bought a night scope. now that we know this part of the plan, the SKS makes so much more sense to me. an accurate bolt action semi automatic rifle best for hunting/distance. not suited to close quarters combat.
from day 1 weve heard how much detail went into the planing of this atrocity. not that it matters to me, but its clear to any sane person that g4 was in on this from the very get go.. there was no last minute change of plans, no conflicted feelings for g4. in fact, his hubris was too much even for angela!!! who chided him after posting a picture on facebook of a wolf with an injury to the eye. if angela thinks your over doing it, that is pretty bad. everything that went into these crime scenes its preposterous to think jake and billy ever planned on going as a duo. it would be a suicide mission

 

[Puzzles8]

But the jury will not be the Wagner family's kin/clan. They have no loyalty to them. It will be seen as one clan unfairly and using unfair measures to kill off another clan.

They can't allow that. To allow that means any clan can just kill off another clan for no reason.

Kin stick together but no juror will be kin to the Wagners. The jurors will see it was cold blooded aggravated murder and George for whatever reason was there participating. And in Ohio it is felony/aggravated murder just because he committed felony/aggravated burglary and people were killed. Link above.

Felony Murder

A person commits felony murder (murder) if any death (even an accidental one) results from the commission of certain violent felonies -- such as arson, burglary, kidnapping, rape, and robbery.

The fact George was there during aggravated robbery and people were killed is enough for an aggravated murder conviction.

He was part of that burglary and it doesn't matter that he may not have shot a victim himself.

I absolutely see the loyal blindness the W4 have to each other.

IMO, I think their loyalty runs much deeper than the local culture. I think it has more to do with how significantly enmeshed the Wagner family is.

Let's not forget they used to vote at the kitchen table on intimate relations within their family members.

IMO, that is very sickly enmeshed.

JMO

 

[Dudly]

@Dudly my brother, I think you are correct in this. I was thinking more of the jury and what sympathies they might have in the sentencing phase.

BTW I hope you are doing well. Are you getting along any better now?

Raize

JMO

still waiting on more testing till they decide how to proceed with treating this growth. Swallowing and breathing is getting more difficult so I hope something gets done soon…

 

[Cool Cats]

I absolutely see the loyal blindness the W4 have to each other.

IMO, I think their loyalty runs much deeper than the local culture. I think it has more to do with how significantly enmeshed the Wagner family is.

Let's not forget they used to vote at the kitchen table on intimate relations within their family members.

IMO, that is very sickly enmeshed.

JMO

Yah. We just found out that soposedly Jake got rid of Elizabeth even when he disagreed with his family voting her out. Who does that? I think it was said they saw her as a liability.

So they sat around voting to commit murder.

Grandma wanted to be called mom.

I can't think of a more enmeshed family.

It's gross and I don't believe the jury will buy the bull of George trying to talk them out of it (the murders) and only deciding to go at the last minute which won't mean a darn thing because he did go and didn't stop it, not even for the sake of his son.

 

[Puzzles8]

I absolutely see the loyal blindness the W4 have to each other.

IMO, I think their loyalty runs much deeper than the local culture. I think it has more to do with how significantly enmeshed the Wagner family is.

Let's not forget they used to vote at the kitchen table on intimate relations within their family members.

IMO, that is very sickly enmeshed.

JMO

ETA - And this speaks STRONGLY in support of the Conspiracy charge.

JMO

 

[TheRevWells]

not sure if this has been posted before, but these are pretty interesting watches. These are from April 2022

Pike County Massacre: George Wagner Hearing - William Bodziak, Forensic Consultant Part 1
Pike County Massacre: George Wagner Hearing - William Bodziak, Forensic Consultant Part 2

 

[Antimony]

Just a point.
Bolt action rifles are usually more accurate than auto-loading rifles.
That is because they have fewer moving parts. Less inertia disturbance during aiming for the 2nd shot
Bolt action rifles are not semi-auto. You have to work the bolt between shots.
The SKS is auto-loading, not bolt action. It is semi-auto.
Rifle accuracy matters more at a distance, not close-up.
At shorter distances, a rifle needs to be shorter and quicker to aim.

I missed the details on the "specially modified truck".
What did they do to make it a War Wagon?

 

[Covert Operative]

Just a point.
Bolt action rifles are usually more accurate than auto-loading rifles.
That is because they have fewer moving parts. Less inertia disturbance during aiming for the 2nd shot
Bolt action rifles are not semi-auto. You have to work the bolt between shots.
The SKS is auto-loading, not bolt action. It is semi-auto.
Rifle accuracy matters more at a distance, not close-up.
At shorter distances, a rifle needs to be shorter and quicker to aim.

I missed the details on the "specially modified truck".
What did they do to make it a War Wagon?

They did not say how it was modified, just that it had been modified by G4. I had a few guesses of how they may have.

 

[Dudly]

They did not say how it was modified, just that it had been modified by G4. I had a few guesses of how they may have.

It may have been as simple as removing seats and tinting windows. I suppose we will eventually find out…

 

[Ann99]

Just came across this. Looks to be new as of the last few days. Not sure.
Quick scan shows nice visuals.
I’ll self report for an ok.

 

[Cool Cats]

They did not say how it was modified, just that it had been modified by G4. I had a few guesses of how they may have.

I don't remember this, a truck they took being modified by George. That is incredible evidence that he was right there participating! It really helps prove his involvement and planning of the murders.

 

[Dudly]

I don't remember this, a truck they took being modified by George. That is incredible evidence that he was right there participating! It really helps prove his involvement and planning of the murders.

I, personally, don’t remember seeing that it was modified by GWIV, just that it was modified. I could be wrong…

 

[Antimony]

If George IV was as non involved as we are led to believe, Would he not have copped a plea along with his momma?
He could have then escaped the clutches of Evil Jake and Evil Billy without much work and maybe have an opportunity to see his son before he dies.

 

[Cool Cats]

If George IV was as non involved as we are led to believe, Would he not have copped a plea along with his momma?
He could have then escaped the clutches of Evil Jake and Evil Billy without much work and maybe have an opportunity to see his son before he dies.

It is possible he could have got 30 years on a plea at the very least but that is too long for him. He wants alot less time than that and is willing to gamble it with a jury.

In other words Canepa said they were all offered pleas and evidently George didn't like his so he chose to go to trial to try to get a better deal. Or why else go to trial?

He is doomed because he went along, period.

Had he not gone along It would be different. Then all he would have to do is fight against the 14 other charges which would be easier than the fact he went along on 8 murders.

He hates jail so much he is willing to take his chances in court. Seems to me.

 

[Covert Operative]

I don't remember this, a truck they took being modified by George. That is incredible evidence that he was right there participating! It really helps prove his involvement and planning of the murders.

G4 bought the truck and he also was the one that modified the truck is what was said in court.