OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #75

[Johnny B Bad]

They transported cattle and probably many different items which, yes, some pay more.

According to GW4 ex-wife GW4 was 23 years old when she left him and neither Jake or George didn’t worked the time she lived with the Wagners, so where did all the big boy toys come from? Also remember what she said that the Wagners just got $289000 from the trailer they burned at Bethel Hill Rd.

 

[sunshineray]

It was interesting Billy, G & J's source of employment seemed to the Wagner Trucking Co, a family business. Maybe just enough income reported to collect Medicaid or other Govt. benefits?? An incentive to file minimal taxes? Govt benefits had been denied before for both G & J because they had no reportable income.

Per their calendar they certainly didn't have a lot of trucking work, only sporadically through-out the year of 2015. Would that income be enough to support their lifestyle?

Also noted, several supposed trips to Pennsylvania, Missouri, Nebraska and Kansas. Wonder what they were legally/illegally hauling? The property they tried to fraudulently purchase was in Missouri.

JMO, IMO and etc.

Well the trucking jobs and the weed maybe?Wasn't BW involved in someway with KR and CRSR's stuff? BW said he tried to set up a big deal in CA but then CRSR backed out but maybe other smaller ones took place and BW made some money? I don't know but I suppose it's possible?

 

[24Roses]

@Chingaling Yep cough syrup was on the WalMart receipt. I wish we knew if it was adult or children's. I'm really conflicted on if she really could of been there or not now that a few people have mentioned it recently. If the kids were along with her, they should of been sound asleep at that time of night anyway. Cough syrup would of helped with that. I can't see her leaving them home alone; that would of been too big of a risk if they woke up and got out of the house, hurt themselves, or even a fire maybe. Is it at all possible that one of the 2 great grandma's would of stayed with them (FW or RN?) I honestly didn't follow along with their chargess or whatever happened to them with that. All I think I know about the those ladies are that they are not in jail and not going on trial.

Did she really buy cough meds? I must have missed that. If she did those kids were most certainly dosed. Bet she was there, kids sleeping in car. Sick sick people.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I was thinking about the family sitting round the table taking a vote on whatever issue. Did the outcome have to be unanimous, or was it majority rules? What if it was a tie? Did Angela have the deciding vote? What if, (not saying it happened) but what if George voted NO?

I bet he didn't vote no when he was 13 and Angie sent an 11 year old girl upstairs to have sex with him. I went back over Tabitha's testimony because I couldn't be sure, but she did say that Angie and George's grandmother were sitting at the table when George got upset over something they were saying and they sent her upstairs to "comfort" him. I am wondering which grandmother? That living at the foot of the cross grandmother? After all T said RW was the one who was trying to hook her and her sister up with the W boys. Or the other one? I couldn't hear her very well.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

This is kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't for LE. The investigators have to look in the tubs, the baskets, all the random places Wagners tossed their stuff because they are looking for evidence of the conspiracy and the murders. The tax envelope itself is not a problem; there might not have been a tax document inside. Not all of mine are in their original envelopes from my tax guy. The question is whether anyone "looked at" or examined the returns. That should have been an easier problem to avoid.

Hubby has ran across tax returns in the course of investigations and raids on homes before, he said. But he always left them untouched. If that was not possible he would ask permission of the person who the returns belonged to and seal them in a paper evidence bag and secure them under lock until the IRS was notified for further instructions. Sometimes they were picked up with a warrant by the CI agents of the IRS due to the nature of hubby's investigations. If not, they were transported with the prisoner or given to family members. So yes, it was a very easy problem to solve.

JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

I bet he didn't vote no when he was 13 and Angie sent an 11 year old girl upstairs to have sex with him. I went back over Tabitha's testimony because I couldn't be sure, but she did say that Angie and George's grandmother were sitting at the table when George got upset over something they were saying and they sent her upstairs to "comfort" him. I am wondering which grandmother? That living at the foot of the cross grandmother? After all T said RW was the one who was trying to hook her and her sister up with the W boys. Or the other one? I couldn't hear her very well.

JMO

From the time G4 was a child, IMO, he understood the ultimate importance of the kitchen table vote, and the enmeshed family he was a part of and participated in.

After he was an adult (over 21) he voted as an adult at the kitchen table and chose to participate in in the murders of 8 people.

IMO, evidence shows G4 participated in the planning, the execution and the cover up of the murders.

The Conspiracy Charge # 22 will be hard to deny. IMO, this is the charge that will bring him down.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

According to GW4 ex-wife GW4 was 23 years old when she left him and neither Jake or George didn’t worked the time she lived with the Wagners, so where did all the big boy toys come from? Also remember what she said that the Wagners just got $289000 from the trailer they burned at Bethel Hill Rd.

I don't believe George at 23 and Jake at 22 never worked. I think they did odd jobs but just didn't go to a regular 30 to 40 an hour job at the same place everyday. Somehow they had to financially help Angela. Someone just said something about them not making enough money for disability so maybe they did just sit around and pretend they were disabled.

Maybe hoping for welfare money for George's son.

What is in MSM is that they worked for that guy fixing vehicles where they stored their trailers. That people brought vehicles to them to fix at Peterson Rd., that they worked for an over the road trucking company of which BCI bugged their truck. In Ak they had tools and did truck repairs.

Jake said he worked on his family farm and that could have been both at Defiance Farms and at FWF.

They just didn't seem to work the regular steady 9 to 5 regular hour type of jobs.

I personally believe they did alot of feeding and cleaning Involving the animals when they lived next to FWF on Bethel Hill Rd.

I think Fred helped them alot and maybe set up trust funds for them to get a certain amount of money a month. I doubt FW charged them rent on her Bethel Hill trailer so they lived free. Billy probably lived free at FWF.

Maybe a clearer financial picture will come up during the trial. There is a Motion that lists a ton of FW's bank statements tied into the Wagner's and I think she helped them out financially that way.

I'm just guessing so opinion only. I want to believe Tabby but it seems very strange to be married, have a son, support your mother, then simply not work at all. He is obviously healthy.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

That would have been an easy problem to clear up if the prosecution or even the defense would have asked straight forward questions like did you read George's tax return. The defense didn't want things cleared up, he wanted it to appear that this agent was shady and he was trying to confuse everyone and draw attention to a red herring.

If there is any issue with those that came and searched looking at a tax document, then I'd say that is a different matter and not relevant to this case. I also feel there has to be some level of professional courtesy to law enforcement when doing searches. Like you said you have to verify something very damning isn't in a folder labeled tax documents and addressed to George. So peaking in, see it's tax documents and moving on should not be criminal. If that is the case then criminals could hide whatever they wanted inside folders labeled tax documents.

BBM

I also feel there has to be some level of professional courtesy to law enforcement when doing searches.

Most American's know the IRS isn't known for cutting anyone any slack. After all they may be auditing those very same LE that they extended courtesy to the week before. I would say IRS agents are as horrified as we all are over 8 murders but that is not their job. They have laws, and they never deviate from those laws in the IRS tax code.

The IRS is kind of an agency off to themselves like the post office. They have oversight from the Treasury Department and while Congress writes a new IRS code every year during budget reconciliation in the last part of the year, they mostly just build on the existing code. They take away credits or deductions or add some. But there is very little oversight of the IRS. The tax code has been overhauled 3 times in the many years I have been in the business. During Reagan, Clinton and Trump's administrations. And Clinton didn't really get it overhauled but did manage to get a law in it that places the burden of proof on the IRS instead of on the taxpayer. In other words the IRS has to prove you did not have a deduction, you do not have to prove you did.

They are a very powerful agency and they know it. They can audit anyone and do. I have seen judges, district attorneys, Congressmen and even POTUS audited. I had a friend who is an auditor for the IRS tell me once that an auditor for the IRS got audited. lol. The IRS does not extend professional courtesy even to their own employees. Audits are random and there are no exceptions. If your name comes up in the computer then you are audited.

If there is any issue with those that came and searched looking at a tax document, then I'd say that is a different matter and not relevant to this case.

I did not say it was relevant to this case. I just said it could have fallout, especially if any IRS agents were watching the testimony.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

From the time G4 was a child, IMO, he understood the ultimate importance of the kitchen table vote, and the enmeshed family he was a part of and participated in.

After he was an adult (over 21) he voted as an adult at the kitchen table and chose to participate in in the murders of 8 people.

IMO, evidence shows G4 participated in the planning, the execution and the cover up of the murders.

The Conspiracy Charge # 22 will be hard to deny. IMO, this is the charge that will bring him down.

JMO

Yup! Agree with you! Thanks for your posts.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'm listening again to the Piketon Massacre Podcast episodes from after Jake and Angela took a deal. On the episode Wagner v Wagner, they have played recording from the bond hearing I believe it was that George's lawyers requested after Jake took the plea. I believe it was Agent Scheiderer being questioned and he said they had 100 days of recordings of George. Total 8,000 recordings of the family. So that must be the truck they bugged. 100 days. I bet a lot was said. He did say, well George didn't confess but he made statements. They never said what those statements were, but I can't wait to hear that. It must be coming up soon!

When asked from the discovery list was there anything that caught his eye, the guy said yes one thing. There was a trash pull June 5, 2017. I wonder if that was in Alaska once they arrived there? Maybe seeing what they threw out? In the podcast the person being interviewed said trash pulls are often for some type of DNA, but we know they don't have DNA so would they be looking for something in their trash?

The only thing I have seen so far as solid proof on George is he put the wrong date on the custody statement. He dated it 2014 when the prosecution proved they were not printed out until 2016. But I don't think that in itself is a crime, unless he submitted his custody statement in a court of law. That is the only real proof I have seen against him so far. I am anxiously waiting for more.

JMO

 

[Dudly]

It was interesting Billy, G & J's source of employment seemed to the Wagner Trucking Co, a family business. Maybe just enough income reported to collect Medicaid or other Govt. benefits?? An incentive to file minimal taxes? Govt benefits had been denied before for both G & J because they had no reportable income.

Per their calendar they certainly didn't have a lot of trucking work, only sporadically through-out the year of 2015. Would that income be enough to support their lifestyle?

Also noted, several supposed trips to Pennsylvania, Missouri, Nebraska and Kansas. Wonder what they were legally/illegally hauling? The property they tried to fraudulently purchase was in Missouri.

JMO, IMO and etc.

I have always thought they seemed to spend way more than their incomes seemed to be. Those trucks and 4 wheelers are not cheap nor are guns… MOO…

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Trash Pull and a few incriminating starements.

Canepa said there are wiretap recordings catching George speaking to Jake about them being in trouble, and that Jake should have smashed his laptop and thrown away his phone.

It won't be hard for the State to prove that George was going along with his family's Murder Conspiracy. They have 8,000 recordings of interest. Remember these few quotes from George?

Incriminating statements:

1.) If they have the gun they have the silencer. (After Scheiderer sent George Jake's phone photo of Jake holding his colt 22.)
2.) I told you to get rid of your phone. (After Scheiderer sent photo of Jake holding his colt 22.)
3.) We have a family emergency. (After Scheiderer sent photo of Jake holding his colt 22.)
4.) Don't come down here ( to Billy - we have company. (BCI was at Peterson Rd.)
5.) Jake's always getting us in trouble over some woman.
6.) I want to bash Scheiderer's face in.
7.) Make Reader pay make DeWine pay - violent tendencies Scheiderer said.
8.) We're being bugged don't say anything till we get home.
9.) I bought a night scope.
10.) I bought a Captain America mask.
11.) Making fun of Jake's religion many times = they don't celebrate Halloween so what was the mask for?
12.) Those not arrested will break the others out of jail.
13.) We will take revenge against anyone who goes against us.

Canepa said in her closing argument at the Bond Hearing that George's buying a night scope made it convenient to shoot people in bed in the middle of the night.

Canepa & Scheiderer at George's Bond Hearing

• Angela Wagner | PDF March 20th 2019 Angela's Discovery

Trash pull from Days Inn

Wonder what the photos were of?

 

[justtrish]

BBM

I also feel there has to be some level of professional courtesy to law enforcement when doing searches.

Most American's know the IRS isn't known for cutting anyone any slack. After all they may be auditing those very same LE that they extended courtesy to the week before. I would say IRS agents are as horrified as we all are over 8 murders but that is not their job. They have laws, and they never deviate from those laws in the IRS tax code.

The IRS is kind of an agency off to themselves like the post office. They have oversight from the Treasury Department and while Congress writes a new IRS code every year during budget reconciliation in the last part of the year, they mostly just build on the existing code. They take away credits or deductions or add some. But there is very little oversight of the IRS. The tax code has been overhauled 3 times in the many years I have been in the business. During Reagan, Clinton and Trump's administrations. And Clinton didn't really get it overhauled but did manage to get a law in it that places the burden of proof on the IRS instead of on the taxpayer. In other words the IRS has to prove you did not have a deduction, you do not have to prove you did.

They are a very powerful agency and they know it. They can audit anyone and do. I have seen judges, district attorneys, Congressmen and even POTUS audited. I had a friend who is an auditor for the IRS tell me once that an auditor for the IRS got audited. lol. The IRS does not extend professional courtesy even to their own employees. Audits are random and there are no exceptions. If your name comes up in the computer then you are audited.

If there is any issue with those that came and searched looking at a tax document, then I'd say that is a different matter and not relevant to this case.

I did not say it was relevant to this case. I just said it could have fallout, especially if any IRS agents were watching the testimony.

JMO

My statements were meant as a dig at the defense for trying to point out the witness might have peaked at a tax return. This is a murder trial for 8 victims and of all the evidence presented he just asks her if she looked at all the papers and then points out the disclaimer. I think the defense had nothing so he picked something like that to create some distraction. The jury may not even have picked up on it. We are here about murder and conspiracy and this guy is asking if she looked at his tax return.

My point was the way the question was asked was a general one. You looked at all the papers in that tote? That to me is saying in general terms, you were very thorough and checked it all? She said yes because she likely did as she was looking for specific items. She wasn't looking for a tax return. She was looking for receipts, paperwork about custody or other business deals that could be reason for murdering 8 people.

I just think it's dirty to play that game. Because he didn't have anything else he had to say something like that? As I said before maybe it was a general glance to make sure it was in fact a tax return and not some other paperwork put in a folder labeled tax return. They didn't admit that into evidence specifically. They didn't point it out and talk about it, I don't feel it had any significance other than it was in that tote with other papers they found important. Then the defense singles it out saying she did something wrong and that isn't the point of the trial.

If he feels that strongly about it then he could call the IRS and report her. Why bring it into this trial? So it creates a distraction.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

You don't offend anyone. Keep posting, I enjoy reading all your posts. I found this but don't remember if it was posted or not so I'll post it just in case.

Uploaded by​

Local12wkrc

Date uploaded​

on Sep 03, 2022

Wagner Defense Hearsay Motion | PDF

Wagner Defense Hearsay Motion

www.scribd.com

The prosecution already violated that court order when they played Billy's interview with BCI in the grocery parking lot. BCI asked Billy about the alleged fight on tape and it was played before the jury.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

How many everyday citizens knows about this law? Not me and I used to work as a contractor within the IRS for a few years. WOW, sure glad I’m not a nosey person.

WOW, sure glad I’m not a nosey person.

BBM
I think all of us on WS would fit under the nosy if not curious umbrella, else what are we all doing on here?

How many everyday citizens knows about this law?
I don't know but you can bet every IRS agent does, and more than a few CPA's.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Right. Jake could say those masks were bought years ago, or confirm one or more was a 2016 murder kit purchase. There will be a ton of things Jake will need to clear up.

I suspect he will opt out of being videoed and recorded but his testimony is so crucial that there should be many tweets and articles following what he says.

Everyone will want to know if the prosecution is satisfied enough with his testimony to keep the DP off the table for all 4 Wagners.

It's my opinion that Jake will want to keep the DP off the table and will follow the testimony that the prosecution has gone over and over with him. If the defense gets Jake confused or saying something he didn't mean to say etc, the prosecution can rehabilitate his answers on their re-cross of him.

It's my opinion that Jake will want to keep the DP off the table

I am not so sure about that CC. If the DP is back on the table he can appeal. Right now he can't. He's had some
time to think by now about how long his sentence is.

JMO

 

[ohioexpat63]

My statements were meant as a dig at the defense for trying to point out the witness might have peaked at a tax return. This is a murder trial for 8 victims and of all the evidence presented he just asks her if she looked at all the papers and then points out the disclaimer. I think the defense had nothing so he picked something like that to create some distraction. The jury may not even have picked up on it. We are here about murder and conspiracy and this guy is asking if she looked at his tax return.

My point was the way the question was asked was a general one. You looked at all the papers in that tote? That to me is saying in general terms, you were very thorough and checked it all? She said yes because she likely did as she was looking for specific items. She wasn't looking for a tax return. She was looking for receipts, paperwork about custody or other business deals that could be reason for murdering 8 people.

I just think it's dirty to play that game. Because he didn't have anything else he had to say something like that? As I said before maybe it was a general glance to make sure it was in fact a tax return and not some other paperwork put in a folder labeled tax return. They didn't admit that into evidence specifically. They didn't point it out and talk about it, I don't feel it had any significance other than it was in that tote with other papers they found important. Then the defense singles it out saying she did something wrong and that isn't the point of the trial.

If he feels that strongly about it then he could call the IRS and report her. Why bring it into this trial? So it creates a distraction.

This is how i feel too. If the prosecutoes tried to intoduce the tax records as evidence then it would have been inadmissible. Im not defending BCI. If they errored and it was so egregious of an error they need to pay the piper. This is the least of 4's issues tho.
<modsnip - political commentary is not allowed>

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Someone was messing around KRs ex-wife’s mailbox late one night summer after the murders, trying to intimidate her and Kendra Rhoden, (I wonder who that was) give you Sleuthers one guess! JMO that when the ski mask where worn, if new ones where bought.

give you Sleuthers one guess!

Jake the snake?

JMo

 

[Cool Cats]

It's my opinion that Jake will want to keep the DP off the table

I am not so sure about that CC. If the DP is back on the table he can appeal. Right now he can't. He's had some
time to think by now about how long his sentence is.

JMO

So if his DP goes off the table I assume that means his plea deal goes away and then he would have to have a trial, be found guilty, then be able to appeal?

 

[Cool Cats]

The prosecution already violated that court order when they played Billy's interview with BCI in the grocery parking lot. BCI asked Billy about the alleged fight on tape and it was played before the jury.

JMO

So Billy admitted the fight? So it can be brought up at trial?