OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[twall]

GW's Christmas gift from Granny?

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[Betty P]

GW's Christmas gift from Granny?

Before we continue

Does this mean FW knew about the murders? Just curious. What do you all think?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

A list isn't "hearsay."

"Hearsay" is "information received that can not be substantiated." The list itself is evidence. What the list means has not yet been determined. Today''s events were to substantiate that the list on Jake's phone is in fact a list of guns owned by the Wagners--which lead to questions about what guns were missing.

Just a random thought here. Do you think it is possible that Jake and Billy took one of George's guns without him knowing then later told George they lost it? The Glock .40 wasn't on George's list that Jake had on his phone I don't think. At least they only mentioned the SKS and 1911 Colt in court today.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

A most bizarre beard he has. I wonder if he is a civil war reenactor?

I think he's put some hard work into that beard. I see a lot of those but his was very well groomed for court. He'd make a nice re-enactor.

 

[justtrish]

That may be true and they aren't finished. This was my take from today, YMMV. From what was reported today, there will be more testimony about the guns, the hidden ones and some recorded conversations.

We'll know when the state is finished. I don't like to get bored and slam them when they're not finished making their case on some critical evidence. No one wants to see a killer released to prey upon the public, right?

Betty P I think they are darned if they do and darned if they don't.

We have seen what happens when they don't ask something or aren't insanely thorough. The defense seems to have nothing except to distract with irrelevant things they try to insinuate someone did wrong to confuse the jury about what is important. We've seen it:

Tabatha on when she lived with George at 11
BCI agent on looking at tax records

I think there was a few others also.

When they can't refute what is presented, they distract from it trying to have a big boom moment and instead it just looks bad for them.

Prosecution is picking up on that and I think being even more thorough. I'd rather see that then the defense trying to score points by picking apart things that just don't matter.

 

[twall]

Does this mean FW knew about the murders? Just curious. What do you all think?

No, I don't think it means FW knew about the murders. GW bought the 9mm Beretta April 27, 2016. The order confirmation with FW name and address were found in her home during the May 13, 2017 search. It is just an assumption GW may have asked for the grips for his new toy for Christmas, or his October b-day. JMO

 

[Myland]

This web site is having a lot of problems tonight! It posted mine in duplicate, too.

Thank you Betty! I really felt bad for that.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

As someone who has never owned a gun I don't get the gun fascination. I understand they are necessary for those who hunt, and for protection for those who think they need it, but the collection of guns is beyond me. I guess some people collect crystal wine glasses and some collect guns.

Years ago I was sailing with someone who had some AR15s, with grenade attachments, on board for sailing in the Caribbean when pirates were a big issue. Nowadays most don't sail with them as most islands have really cracked down on guns coming into their territory.

I don't know either. I collect jewelry and vases.

Hubby has a ton of guns. Maybe because he is LE? But then he collects yapping dogs too.

But then again I live in an open carry state where they walk around with a loaded pistol strapped to each hip and an AR 15 slung over their shoulder.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I agree. And you know what is ironic? The two participants who stood to gain the most from the murders, were the first to strike a plea deal, leaving BW and GW4 hanging. If only BW and GW4 had the balls to say no to them. IMO.

Speaking of that I was really worried about that BCI agent opening the evidence boxes with that huge knife Junk gave him. I winced every time he held one of those big boxes on his lap and ran that knife down it. I was thinking he was going to stab himself in the leg or slice his cajones off.

JMO

 

[twall]

Just a random thought here. Do you think it is possible that Jake and Billy took one of George's guns without him knowing then later told George they lost it? The Glock .40 wasn't on George's list that Jake had on his phone I don't think. At least they only mentioned the SKS and 1911 Colt in court today.

JMO

.40 Cal Glock is on GW's list.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo after all they have presented what is linked specifically to George?

All i have seen is he back dated that custody document. But he didn't try to introduce that in any court so I don't know if that could be illegal or not. He put 2014 and they proved it wasn't printed out until 2016. That's it so far.

JMO

 

[twall]

Things that stuck out to me in this photo-gun on top of a Bible story book, Little House books (read them all and watched the tv show as a child!) and a fire extinguisher!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Does this mean FW knew about the murders? Just curious. What do you all think?

Yeah buddy.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think he's put some hard work into that beard. I see a lot of those but his was very well groomed for court. He'd make a nice re-enactor.

Were are those legend stars and double bars when we need them? lol

 

[pittsburghgirl]

That may be true and they aren't finished. This was my take from today, YMMV. From what was reported today, there will be more testimony about the guns, the hidden ones and some recorded conversations.

We'll know when the state is finished. I don't like to get bored and slam them when they're not finished making their case on some critical evidence. No one wants to see a killer released to prey upon the public, right?

This is a huge case. 8 victims, 4 crime scenes, 4 conspirators/perpetrators. And considering that just the messages that Angela hacked filled a whole storage container, unfathomable amounts of paper. Hours and hours of wiretapped conversation. It was never, ever going to be a simple case.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Things that stuck out to me in this photo-gun on top of a Bible story book, Little House books (read them all and watched the tv show as a child!) and a fire extinguisher!

Praying for peace while packing a gun? Kid Rock I think. lol

 

[rsd1200]

As someone who has never owned a gun I don't get the gun fascination. I understand they are necessary for those who hunt, and for protection for those who think they need it, but the collection of guns is beyond me. I guess some people collect crystal wine glasses and some collect guns.

Years ago I was sailing with someone who had some AR15s, with grenade attachments, on board for sailing in the Caribbean when pirates were a big issue. Nowadays most don't sail with them as most islands have really cracked down on guns coming into their territory.

I saw some in there that were probably handed down. A number of people get started that way. That's how my s/o got started. Many times older folks will hand theirs down to someone they know will handle it with care, after they're gone. That person takes an interest in them. My s/o had their first one, and so did my father, from the time they were 10-12 years old. They'd hunt at that age, with a buddy.

 

[rsd1200]

Jmo but can anyone say appeal if a conviction is made!

I'd expect it, but I feel the judge has been fair and given leeway on both sides. Hopefully it won't go through. I don't think the county can handle another one, expense wise, nor juror pool wise.

 

[justtrish]

I went to the media thread from the very beginning to look up what was being said early on and over the summer.

Many links just don't work anymore. Some are removed and some are paid only so what I was able to see shows that toward the end of summer (August) it was being said in the media that this was someone that knew the houses, knew the people, etc. Not likely outsider or stranger.

Billy's interview from the car we heard was done in Sept. 2016

This article is from October 2016. Interesting.

I think over the summer when it started being said it was someone local, not outside, maybe the W's got the feeling that the drug cartel or big drug connections coming in to kill everyone wasn't the way the investigators were going got them scared. They started planning for the move to Alaska then. Then Billy does that interview and tries all he can to throw the investigators on to all the drug connections. Then in Oct when it's publicly said they will charge anyone not being truthful or trying to mislead investigation.

Timing is interesting for sure.

Pike Sheriff orders arrests related to Rhoden,Gilley homicides: 'They need to come forward, or we will arrest them'

Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader has ordered that any individual who has misled, lied to investigators, or has obstructed the investigation into the murders of eight members of the Rhoden

www.newswatchman.com

 

[rsd1200]

beyond a reasonable doubt

www.law.cornell.edu

Yes. Agree. Much more than a civil case. I think we may be saying the same thing but in different ways.


For example, in criminal cases, the burden of proving the defendant’s guilt is on the prosecution, and they must establish that fact beyond a reasonable doubt.

burden of proof


Securing a criminal conviction requires that the state prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt, and Ohio law describes that standard in greater detail. In ORC 2901.05

What is Required for a Criminal Conviction in Ohio? | Dworken