OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[arielilane]

I don't see the problem with it. They processed it and got everything they thought they'd possibly need before moving them. They had to watch them either way though. I'd imagine not knowing if there was anything that would come to light in the future that would lead them to something in the trailer they missed, they needed to try to ensure nobody went in them. The national media on this from the beginning likely bought a lot of people just going out there to see the scenes. Much easier to keep them watched if they are moved to a single location.

They couldn't be protected any other way. It was not viable financially to have guards at every site for possibly years (as it turns out years before being viewed by jurors). They would have been tampered with or, IMO, burned to the ground. The evidentiary value to preserve them is for the defense as much as prosecution.

Trish and sunshineray, thank you both for the detailed explanation, it adds clarity and makes sense rather than to have guards in place. I do wonder about defense claiming contamination.

 

[justtrish]

Betty and Sunshineray, thank you both for the detailed explanation, it adds clarity and makes sense rather than to have guards in place. I do wonder about defense claiming contamination.

I don't know that they could argue that at this point because there is no evidence entered yet that was taken after they were moved. If they never use any evidence from the trailers that was collected after they were relocated, then it's not really going to impact the trial.

 

[rsd1200]

I think the Wagner's had a time crunch and held on to their weapons or put them in the truck, then that night ditched them at FWF. I don't think they ditched them later at FWF, on a different night, because they knew an investigation would start that following morning.

They had no idea if they would be searched that morning.

They had to change somewhere, too. Where better than in the dark on the back of a farm, w/o any prying eyes. One they were familiar with. Burn the clothing, stash the firearms. At some point they all lived there on Bethel, there was still a barn a concrete pad, and a pond with water in it, located there. By vehicle, about a mile off the road, with trees around.

 

[joe jones]

I'm listening to the first 20 minutes when the lawyers were arguing about introducing the evidence and they have mentioned several times that they have George's own words on the wire tap that implicate him and show him trying to hide the conspiracy and to mislead investigators on the nature of the list. He must know the list exists if he's speaking about it on the wire tap they have.

but it could be as he says a wish list, who knows BW could have owned all those guns and JW and GW made a list dividing up BW guns into a wish list of the guns they wanted, I could provide a myriad of explanations as to what GW may have meant by wish list, the state has to prove that GW was trying to mislead the investigation, and that it isn't a wish list as GW says

the state has to prove the elements of each and every charge, they have the burden,

 

[sunshineray]

BBM - the list was found on Jake's phone though so it isn't hearsay is it? (asking because I don't know just seems it wouldn't be hearsay if it was found on a device owned and used by a specific person).

It's not hearsay, it's evidence. Exactly how it's to be used to prove guilt is yet to come. There's more of that kind of evidence entered on the record right now but it will all be tied up to relevant testimony yet to come. IMO

 

[rescuemom]

Mathew White said that he was not given all of the guns found at Flying W...why not? If I was a juror who sat through all of this today I'd wonder why not?? I know nothing about guns, don't like guns although hubby has a safe and gun cabinet..lots of guns. My question to you all who have seen the list, listened to the ballistic testimony and seen the guns owned by the Ws...Can ammunition be interchangeable? Can ballistics from the bodies and the scenes come from guns not commonly known by the expert??? Say he says it came from X, could it also be fired from Y???? Will JWs testimony clear all of this up when he testifies? Will he tell what guns they used and what happened to them, all of them or is he expected/required to?? I am really confused and wonder if the jury is too?? IMHO.

 

[joe jones]

It's not hearsay, it's evidence. Exactly how it's to be used to prove guilt is yet to come. There's more of that kind of evidence entered on the record right now but it will all be tied up to relevant testimony yet to come. IMO

it is hearsay until JW testifies and says he wrote it, considering the states theory of one for all who knows if they shared phones and somebody else typed the list onto JW phone and he didn't even know it was on there,

 

[rsd1200]

Didn't AC state in opening the G4 helped mix and pour the concrete? So then that should be in the proffer.

She says "they" but, and I may have missed her stating G4 explicitly. It's probably what she meant, though it could have been JW and G3 if she did not. (Me, as the difficult juror)

 

[rsd1200]

Last one in the pond is chicken!

That's one pond I'd never swim in. I'd fill it in, fence it off, and let the earth take it back.

 

[sunshineray]

Trish and sunshineray, thank you both for the detailed explanation, it adds clarity and makes sense rather than to have guards in place. I do wonder about defense claiming contamination.

The contamination claims have root in an investigative local reporter. He went to the original storage space, a company that had an empty warehouse, and found it easy to get onto the property through an ill-secured gate. The R's countless vehicles were parked on the surrounding lot but none of those are evidence. The trailers were locked up and I believe the company had hired security or security was hired by the county for that warehouse. That's what I remember about it at the time. It seemed like the reporter was making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think the company closed and the trailers were moved to a police facility.

 

[joe jones]

One thing that did amuse me was the state trying so hard to convince the jury that the W had no idea they were in the crosshairs and that they sold their house and went to Alaska just because,

I would buy it if they hadn't sold up, and packed up all their possessions, the W knew they were the prime suspects, they just had no idea how much evidence they had left at the crime scenes and at their homes

 

[justtrish]

Mathew White said that he was not given all of the guns found at Flying W...why not? If I was a juror who sat through all of this today I'd wonder why not?? I know nothing about guns, don't like guns although hubby has a safe and gun cabinet..lots of guns. My question to you all who have seen the list, listened to the ballistic testimony and seen the guns owned by the Ws...Can ammunition be interchangeable? Can ballistics from the bodies and the scenes come from guns not commonly known by the expert??? Say he says it came from X, could it also be fired from Y???? Will JWs testimony clear all of this up when he testifies? Will he tell what guns they used and what happened to them, all of them or is he expected/required to?? I am really confused and wonder if the jury is too?? IMHO.

I think some guns could be excluded from the testing because they could say 100% it would not have fired the bullets that killed the victims. I too am not very knowledgeable about gun or various ammunition, but I know enough to understand some bullets could not be fired from some guns.

So off to google I went.. this caught my eye because it mentions glock. Below the link is a quote from that link.

Caliber Conversion Guide

Learn to convert slide assemblies & conversion barrels for Glocks and 1911 pistols. Changing AR15 upper receiver & swapping the bolt and barrels.

www.opticsplanet.com

For Glocks or 1911s you can purchase a .22LR kit that will have a slide, barrel, and usually a magazine. Then you remove the centerfire slide assembly, install the .22LR slide assembly, and off to the range you go.



So I'd say they only gave him the guns that would have any possibility to have fired the bullets they found. Some could likely be excluded based on the bullet not being able to be fired from that firearm. Again, just my assumption.

 

[ColMustard]

Didn't someone already testify there was 20 grand in there...I don't know if anything else was mentioned?

I think joe meant the gun safe in the FWF home, the $20k was in CRsr's safe.

 

[sunshineray]

Didn't AC state in opening the G4 helped mix and pour the concrete? So then that should be in the proffer.

That's how I remember it, GWIV was there helping in the barn.

 

[CIA Team Member]

If reflections of jurors was shown could deering shut down the media for it ?

The reflections I saw were on the one screen showing evidence. The screen was black and showed about 4 of them. Seems to be the one screen on the floor (didn't see the other one being used but bugged out early today.) The screen above the witness doesn't show anyone.

 

[rsd1200]

I have been on three trial juries which probably accounts for my reasoning.

I was on one and so was my s/o. We both followed the rules and both admitted after, that we went in with sort of preconceived notions at the onset. We were both quite wrong upon closure. My group of jurors, I'd thought would fight my stance, (they'd actually brought the trial to our county court for a fair hearing), but all were like, let's vote and end this. We all voted alike, with the exception of one, who wanted clarification on an item and then joined the rest of us. My s/o and I both knew the second person. We spoke zip about the trial til it was over. After seeing the evidence, my s/o was shocked and had to vote with the evidence as did the others on the jury. I was not shocked, but was saddened.

 

[sunshineray]

it is hearsay until JW testifies and says he wrote it, considering the states theory of one for all who knows if they shared phones and somebody else typed the list onto JW phone and he didn't even know it was on there,

That's where we differ. I think once it's entered into evidence, it's evidence. It was found and deemed to have evidentiary value.

Edit to add: Whether and how it's used is ongoing and unfinished at present.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Have not seen this morning testimonies, going to watch at the lunch break.

WEll, look at the one screen being shown just prior to my post where they were showing evidence.

 

[CIA Team Member]

I think those were reflections of people sitting in the gallery re: R family, since that is the direction the TV is facing. The Jury TV is above the witness chair and turned away from the judge toward the jury box. The reflection was on the one aimed more toward the side and back of the courtroom. I have seen one of the women in the reflection sitting in the front row of the gallery with Miss Geneva before she stopped coming to court.

JMO

No, you could clearly see. The window blinds directly behind them were closed.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Defense is going to argue that the gun list was a wish list, prosecution wants to prove it's an ownership list.

Edit: Then ... alas, the murder weapons are nowhere to be found with the other guns. Then later, two of the murder guns are found encased in concrete.

Do you know which two guns were found encased in concrete? TIA