OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[rsd1200]

IDK if there are two Agent White's, but the guy with the beard, who testified to ballistics, is my fav. as far as all the gun testimony.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Instead of all this evidence and testimony annoying us because we just want them to get to the grandmas, Jake and Angela and the wire tap conversations, I want to take the time to think on just how much work this was. How many people were involved and how many hours they dedicated to this to get it right.

Such a wonderful point. We hear a lot about corruption in law enforcement, but this meticulous work of collecting, testing, cataloguing and documenting evidence is very impressive.

I also like how the witnesses are careful to explain what is not in their expertise or the work they did on this case. Very professional, humble even.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

@Betty P

Do you think if Jake gets George convicted by making that list and keeping it on his phone that they will have to use that shock vest to keep George from choking him to death on the witness stand?

If I were Jake I would be praying I didn't get sent to the same prison as George. lol

JMO

George did say, we're told, that Jake was always getting them in trouble over some woman.

 

[rsd1200]

@Betty P

Do you think if Jake gets George convicted by making that list and keeping it on his phone that they will have to use that shock vest to keep George from choking him to death on the witness stand?

If I were Jake I would be praying I didn't get sent to the same prison as George. lol

JMO

They should make them roomies. Go in on the buddy plan.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

all of this is redundant, he has previously testified the casings from scene 2 and 3 and the casings from Peterson road were fired from the same gun and it is a Walther, so instead of this constant repetition all he has to say is I examined all the weapons from the Flying W that could fire .22 caliber and none were a match to the evidence collected from scene 2 and 3 and Peterson Road, I have previously testified to the Walther being the gun

I think they are trying to embed in the jurors brains that these people owned a gun store full of guns to try to taint the jury's mind toward excessive gun ownership = violent people. There could be jurors who do not own even one gun and be thinking holy cow that's a lot of guns.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Later found broken up in a pond. And didn't they also find a firing pin?

The divers found the maglite suppressor that didnt work right, in the Wagner's cistern in their barn. It had a distinct firing pin impression on it that BCI found out is a unique distinct marking from firing the Walther Colt. This is a German company and BCI talked to people in the company to confirm.

BCI had never heard of this before and this suppressor was the last piece of evidence they needed before arrests. I think this firing pin impression matched the firing impression used in the murders tying Jake to the murders just like his 22 casings tied his colt gun to the murders.

Well, the firing pin impression matched Walther colt guns but if Jake gave BCI his Walther colt gun, then BCI can get the exact match. BCI needs to prove the guns Jake hid, match the guns used in the murders.

Been so long, trying to remember. But again, we want to see tie-ins with George specifically.

George owning and buying certain guns, even on a hundred gun lists, doesn't prove he took them and shot them during 8 murders.

 

[rsd1200]

I think they are trying to embed in the jurors brains that these people owned a gun store full of guns to try to taint the jury's mind toward excessive gun ownership = violent people. There could be jurors who do not own even one gun and be thinking holy cow that's a lot of guns.

JMO

In rural OH, and they're only 1.5 hours from Guntucky, I was thinking the opposite. Holy Cow, what would they think about ME?!

 

[Betty P]

@Betty P

Do you think if Jake gets George convicted by making that list and keeping it on his phone that they will have to use that shock vest to keep George from choking him to death on the witness stand?

If I were Jake I would be praying I didn't get sent to the same prison as George. lol

JMO

It's possible! That will be a heckuva fight!

Pretty sure there are quite a few more things that will get George convicted besides the "Family Gun List". George has no room to criticize with his many texts warning the others. He bought supplies for the suppressor/silencer - that's a big deal that also kicks it up to Aggravated Murder. I still think the jury will agree on the shoeprint evidence which is Aggravated Burglary --> Aggravated Murder. Plus, we haven't even heard the wiretap evidence yet. Pretty sure there's Obstruction of Justice.

Then there will be the confessions of Jake and Angela.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

A list isn't "hearsay."

it is hearsay until JW testifies and says he wrote it, considering the states theory of one for all who knows if they shared phones and somebody else typed the list onto JW phone and he didn't even know it was on there,

"Hearsay" is "information received that can not be substantiated." The list itself is evidence. What the list means has not yet been determined. Today''s events were to substantiate that the list on Jake's phone is in fact a list of guns owned by the Wagners--which lead to questions about what guns were missing.

 

[Recidivist]

George did say, we're told, that Jake was always getting them in trouble over some woman.

Won't have to worry about that anymore.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Mathew White said that he was not given all of the guns found at Flying W...why not? If I was a juror who sat through all of this today I'd wonder why not?? I know nothing about guns, don't like guns although hubby has a safe and gun cabinet..lots of guns. My question to you all who have seen the list, listened to the ballistic testimony and seen the guns owned by the Ws...Can ammunition be interchangeable? Can ballistics from the bodies and the scenes come from guns not commonly known by the expert??? Say he says it came from X, could it also be fired from Y???? Will JWs testimony clear all of this up when he testifies? Will he tell what guns they used and what happened to them, all of them or is he expected/required to?? I am really confused and wonder if the jury is too?? IMHO.

What I know is every gun has sort of unique characteristics that are different from other guns even of similar make and model and caliber. Almost like its own fingerprint. However, the only way to tell is to retrieve a bullet fired and/or casing ejected from said weapons to compare and contrast them. At this point in the investigation they were fairly certain the .40 caliber was from a Glock pistol and the .22 was from a Colt 1911 .22 pistol. I do not think they knew what make/model fired the .30 caliber yet. But I am sure they wanted to examine any .40, .22 or .30 caliber gun they encountered.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yeah, like having 30 tuxedos in the closet indicates you go to a lot of formal events.

Or that you really like to get married a lot.

 

[justtrish]

I think they are trying to embed in the jurors brains that these people owned a gun store full of guns to try to taint the jury's mind toward excessive gun ownership = violent people. There could be jurors who do not own even one gun and be thinking holy cow that's a lot of guns.

JMO

I don't get that impression at all. Today when it was being discussed the why before the jury came in, even the prosecutor said I own more guns than this. This is rural Ohio, where I am sure there is more gun owners than non gun owners. I read that part of the jury questions were about gun ownership and thoughts about that.

If this trial was in a large city (where admittedly I have the opinion that gun ownership might be less common and feelings about guns more negative) I'd agree.

I think this is them showing they took this investigation serious, documented every gun, tested those that could have been a murder weapon and ruled it out. I think they are laying the ground work that despite all their investigation (which we are seeing was extensive), they did not find a murder weapon. They didn't arrest the W's when these search warrants were executed because they didn't find a murder weapon. They had to continue to investigate.

It was only after Jake lead them to the weapons that they found them, but it wasn't for their lack of trying.

Imagine the defense saying, you found all these guns?? Did you rule them all out? Why didn't you check them all?

If the prosecution doesn't introduce some piece of evidence and put their own words to it, then you better belive the defense will and twist it around like it's some bad thing the prosecution or BCI did or was trying to hide.

Look at Tabitha. They didn't ask her about living with the W's when she was 11.. then the defense did and tried to insinuate she was laying because she didn't mention it before.

Now if the prosecution would have asked Tabitha about every detail first, then we would have people saying, why are they asking all this.. how is this relevant and so on.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

That's where we differ. I think once it's entered into evidence, it's evidence. It was found and deemed to have evidentiary value.

Edit to add: Whether and how it's used is ongoing and unfinished at present.

Yes, it is entered into evidence. The prosecution or defense objects to hearsay and if the judge agrees, the "thing" under objection isn't entered into evidence.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I think this is them showing they took this investigation serious, documented every gun, tested those that could have been a murder weapon and ruled it out. I think they are laying the ground work that despite all their investigation (which we are seeing was extensive), they did not find a murder weapon. They didn't arrest the W's when these search warrants were executed because they didn't find a murder weapon. They had to continue to investigate.

This is I think an excellent point. The prosecution shows that there was not a "rush to judgment" here.
Now think of this: What all did the prosecution have to make Jake plead BEFORE the guns were found? He was the one who gave up the guns. He took life without parole. He and his attorneys must have felt that the state's case was very very strong.

 

[iridized]

IDK if there are two Agent White's, but the guy with the beard, who testified to ballistics, is my fav. as far as all the gun testimony.

A most bizarre beard he has. I wonder if he is a civil war reenactor?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

but they know this, so they waste another full day of testimony showing gun after gun after gun to jury when not one of those guns bears any relation to a gun used in the homicide, they didn't need to show all those guns to elicit the only testimony that was relevant, the jury already knew the .22 used at scene 2 and 3 and casings from Peterson Rd was a Walther he has previously testified to this,

the guns used in the crimes were on a list in JW phone and those guns were not recovered from the Flying W, the list is hearsay until JW testifies that he made it, but hearsay rules in this trial are not strictly adhered to

a whole court day to elicit a few bits of evidence, and the judge will have to give the jury a limiting instruction on how they cannot infer anything, everything has to be proven, so when state argue they have GW" on wiretaps saying that list was a wish list the jury cannot infer what he means by wish list, the state will have to prove he knew JW had the list on his phone, he had seen the list, the ownership of the guns at the flying W has been proven and the list matches up to the owners name on the phone, only then can the jury decide whether he was telling the truth or not as it pertains to his use of the word wish list,

JW will have to fill in the blanks when he testifies,

a whole court day to elicit a few bits of evidence, and the judge will have to give the jury a limiting instruction on how they cannot infer anything, everything has to be proven, so when state argue they have GW" on wiretaps saying that list was a wish list the jury cannot infer what he means by wish list, the state will have to prove he knew JW had the list on his phone, he had seen the list, the ownership of the guns at the flying W has been proven and the list matches up to the owners name on the phone, only then can the jury decide whether he was telling the truth or not as it pertains to his use of the word wish list,

BBM

Bingo!!!! The judge already did that before they started showing the guns.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Wonder why the agents didn't ask? Or at least try to establish it in some way?

JMO

I think because what they were doing is just collecting evidence. They don't need to know whose room it is. If they knew, they could be accused of planting evidence. For all they knew it could have been FW's room. I'm sure she has guns in her room too (as do I).

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Same, he had to know something and help in some way, IMO, b/c of the extreme tightness of the family. However, it still has to be proven, "beyond all reasonable doubt", in a criminal case.

beyond a reasonable doubt

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Or that you really like to get married a lot.

Or you chaperone a lot of proms.