OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[justtrish]

BW and AW loved each other. BW just couldn't stand living with the boys. I wonder how GW4 felt hearing this? Imo ugh. Internet went down.

It seems so. I really think the root of this is with Angela. I want to know more about how she grew up and what the heck happened for her to latch on to her boys and not let them go. Her husband wanted her.. and being in their 40s and having 2 sons in their 20s, that seems like a reasonable request. I mean most of us look forward to the years when our babies are grown and learning who they are, what they want to be, finding their forever partners, having children or exploring careers in things that make them happy, etc. It's the time we can be parents, but also friends with our grown kids and watch them blossom and live their lives. It's time for us to live our lives apart from the kids. Then to see Billy seems to be there and ready and she is stuck back in mom and now grandma mode and it grows into a sickness over it.

I mean that text about Jake said I can only take Sophia on one 2 week vacation a year?? huh I'd say that is a pretty normal thing (and it pains me to say normal and Jake in the same thought). It's reasonable for a grandparent to only have a grandchild for a 2 week vacation. I mean it sounds like she just wanted to run off with the grandkids and leave the kids.

 

[Berrybell]

It seems so. I really think the root of this is with Angela. I want to know more about how she grew up and what the heck happened for her to latch on to her boys and not let them go. Her husband wanted her.. and being in their 40s and having 2 sons in their 20s, that seems like a reasonable request. I mean most of us look forward to the years when our babies are grown and learning who they are, what they want to be, finding their forever partners, having children or exploring careers in things that make them happy, etc. It's the time we can be parents, but also friends with our grown kids and watch them blossom and live their lives. It's time for us to live our lives apart from the kids. Then to see Billy seems to be there and ready and she is stuck back in mom and now grandma mode and it grows into a sickness over it.

I mean that text about Jake said I can only take Sophia on one 2 week vacation a year?? huh I'd say that is a pretty normal thing (and it pains me to say normal and Jake in the same thought). It's reasonable for a grandparent to only have a grandchild for a 2 week vacation. I mean it sounds like she just wanted to run off with the grandkids and leave the kids.

I would like to know more AWs younger years too.

 

[arielilane]

Pink bunny and sprinkles are suppressor parts. Imo.

I'm glad I saw your response. I had to step away and didn't have AirPods in so missed convo. I recall a child's pink bunny in one of the house pics. Maybe that is how they thought of the code name pink bunny.

 

[arielilane]

Trial resumes at 1:00 pm ET

 

[Cool Cats]

Code words seem like a big deal to the Wagners, to Angela. She gave her mom a list of code words to use for the fake custody documents.

Telling Rita what to say on the stand via code words.

 

[ColMustard]

At -2:28:00 of the current live feed, it sounds like Rob Junk saying "here comes Jake", but maybe he misspoke and meant to say George? Right then he asks if they have some time before the jury comes in. Then Junk says, "if we're gonna do that I should probably run downstairs and get my blood pressure medicine."

The timestamp above will be different after the live feed ends.

 

[Betty P]

It seems so. I really think the root of this is with Angela. I want to know more about how she grew up and what the heck happened for her to latch on to her boys and not let them go. Her husband wanted her.. and being in their 40s and having 2 sons in their 20s, that seems like a reasonable request. I mean most of us look forward to the years when our babies are grown and learning who they are, what they want to be, finding their forever partners, having children or exploring careers in things that make them happy, etc. It's the time we can be parents, but also friends with our grown kids and watch them blossom and live their lives. It's time for us to live our lives apart from the kids. Then to see Billy seems to be there and ready and she is stuck back in mom and now grandma mode and it grows into a sickness over it.

I mean that text about Jake said I can only take Sophia on one 2 week vacation a year?? huh I'd say that is a pretty normal thing (and it pains me to say normal and Jake in the same thought). It's reasonable for a grandparent to only have a grandchild for a 2 week vacation. I mean it sounds like she just wanted to run off with the grandkids and leave the kids.

Well, TBH, would you want to check into a motel with Billy for a weekend of fun? Maybe Angela was no longer attracted to Billy, but had no way to be financially independent. Taking care of kids and grandkids was a way of avoiding intimacy.

 

[justtrish]

I am beginning to wonder if George was actually there to protect Jake after all.

Those conversations with Angela and Billy show that Angela was really most concerned about the grandkids. Even wanting to run off with them and she even seems to be upset that Jake will only let her take Sophia for 2 weeks a year. I see Billy wanting to make Angela happy. He wants his wife back and I almost can feel sorry for him after listening to those texts. Before things went really twisted and wrong, it sounds like Billy was just trying to make Angela happy and wanted her back and was even showing concern for her not sleeping and caring for the grandkids. She did note that Jake wasn't making her watch them, they were all watching them. So it isn't that Jake is ditching his daughter while grandma is home caring for her, it's like Angela has to be there and involved and Billy is showing that at least he has concern for Angela 's health.

Then the evil plan is hatched and from those texts, I get the feeling Billy would not have entertained this plan if it were not for Angela's behavior about the grandkids. In my opinion, he is seeing her obsessing over the grandkids, custody, etc as standing in the way of getting her back. So he wants a way to make her obsessing over that go away so he can get her back.

I know it was only a small bit of texting we heard, but it sounds like Angela is less concerned for the boys and most concerned for the grandkids. Maybe George was worried about Billy harming Jake because it sounds like Jake was in Angela's way of getting Sophia too.

 

[Myland]

Jmo once again state proving Jake and Angela weirdos, but no evidence George in on murders. Heck they even told why Jake might lie on Billy. Sounded like Billy couldn’t stand those boys and the boys felt same way. So far this morning we heard George had contact on phone with Billy three times day before murder and he said he make the person that broke into his grandpas house pay. He may have said kill that person, but do you know many times I heard someone say they were going to kill someone’s in a situation like that when in reality they never hurt a flea. I listen again and it wasn’t kill it was worst nightmare. Another common comment

 

[Myland]

Jmo Billy in February was still planning on going to court.

 

[Betty P]

I am beginning to wonder if George was actually there to protect Jake after all.

Those conversations with Angela and Billy show that Angela was really most concerned about the grandkids. Even wanting to run off with them and she even seems to be upset that Jake will only let her take Sophia for 2 weeks a year. I see Billy wanting to make Angela happy. He wants his wife back and I almost can feel sorry for him after listening to those texts. Before things went really twisted and wrong, it sounds like Billy was just trying to make Angela happy and wanted her back and was even showing concern for her not sleeping and caring for the grandkids. She did note that Jake wasn't making her watch them, they were all watching them. So it isn't that Jake is ditching his daughter while grandma is home caring for her, it's like Angela has to be there and involved and Billy is showing that at least he has concern for Angela 's health.

Then the evil plan is hatched and from those texts, I get the feeling Billy would not have entertained this plan if it were not for Angela's behavior about the grandkids. In my opinion, he is seeing her obsessing over the grandkids, custody, etc as standing in the way of getting her back. So he wants a way to make her obsessing over that go away so he can get her back.

I know it was only a small bit of texting we heard, but it sounds like Angela is less concerned for the boys and most concerned for the grandkids. Maybe George was worried about Billy harming Jake because it sounds like Jake was in Angela's way of getting Sophia too.

It doesn't really matter why George was there. He was. Voluntarily. He knew about the murders in advance (buying parts for the silencers, etc.) yet he did nothing to stop them, warn the victims, etc. He cared nothing about the victims, regarded them as objects or lesser forms of life not worthy of his concern.

JMO, it's a remote possibility he went along for some other reason, but in the eyes of the law it doesn't matter. He was at the crime scene, he helped plan it, he helped cover it up as part of a conspiracy. He's guilty. Being mad at your dad isn't an excuse.

 

[rsd1200]

.40 Cal Glock is on GW's list.

Thanks twall.

Bookmarking for my memory.


Glock 17 9mm may be a gen1. (Image fromgunsinternational.com)

versus Glock 2nd Gen 40 Cal.

The Beretta 96 40 cal is beside it (image from gunsinternational.com)

 

[Chelly]

Those brief phone convos gave good insight into Wagner family dynamics. Seems to be much discord within that tight knit group

 

[Niner]

James Pilcher
@jamespilcher
Starting new thread for next witness in Wagner murder trial. BCI analyst Julia Eveslage returns to stand at this point

Again, this is her third or fourth appearance. She has connected a lot of dots - saved the Walmart receipt and did a lot of phone record works.

Went through phone belonging to Angela Wagner found during SR 41 search of trailers and trucks.

Showing web history found on phone from December 2015



Angela was looking at houses for sale in Seward, Alaska in late December 2015.

More searches for houses in January 2016.

She was also looking at sites indicating possible sexual abuse in a toddler and trauma in a toddler.

In March - searched for pictures of Hanna Rhoden on Facebook and Hanna's friends list. Eveslage says they did determined it was indeed Angela's phone. Looked up an article called "Rape Culture in Alaskan Wilderness" from The Atlantic

Late March Angela still searching for info on Alaska - employment, job listings for truck drivers etc.

April 27 2016 lots of searches and reading about murders



Conversation between Angela and Billy on the phone. "Everything is f-d up" Billy writes. "A bullet to the head would fix me right up."

Later Angela says Sophia has sore rear end and won’t let anyone see. Billy later says you “can keep those bastards” talking about George and Jake



Now a string about Hanna Rhoden getting Sophia's ears pierced. They were angry and wanted to let them grow back in.

More between Jake and Angela about items he bought and BCI thought it might be parts to make suppressors/silencers

BCI also knew about purchases made by Wagners from Amazon, auto parts stores, etc. There were purchases by Jake and Angela of some of those parts in that discussion.

Highlighted messages about family dynamic of Wagners, plus stuff about possible child abuse, Alaska, custody. Another message about pink bunnies and sprinkls - not really about that. Defense objects leading to bench conference.

She says she bases that they thought it was coded messages because it included reference OKI auto parts. And pink bunnies and sprinkls reference came right as they were talking about parts at the time in February.

Later searched Jake Wagner's phone based on search warrant from BCI agent Ryan Scheiderer.

Showed George with a threatening reaction in text with Jake after their grandfather was robbed.

Limited content on Jake and Angela's phone in April 2016 when the murder happened. Eveslage says very limited for Angela's week leading up to homicides.

Direct examination done - breaking for lunch until 1 p.m. when defense will cross examine.



link: https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

 

[rsd1200]

Are the Wagners attorneys court appointed?

GW4's are not, afai remember w/o digging. This has probably been answered already. Sorry if so.

 

[justtrish]

Code words seem like a big deal to the Wagners, to Angela. She gave her mom a list of code words to use for the fake custody documents.

Telling Rita what to say on the stand via code words.

I am curious if their previous criminal activity made them paranoid. They seemed to really take it to another level. Assuming everything was bugged and they were being tracked. Not talking in the cars, using burner phones, using code words. I guess they didn't think about how suspicious it would seem that they were overly paranoid.

 

[sunshineray]

Anybody else detecting a rift between BW and his sons?

Edit: Billy's spelling... he said his sons are "embeded forever". (at home with mom)

Wonder how that is all playing in GWIV's mind?

 

[dgfred]

I don't know but usually older brothers take care of yourner brother... not the other way around.

 

[rsd1200]

The suppressor found in the cistern could not have a firing pin impression on it. It showed bullet markings on the baffles showing that the baffle holes were off center.

Possibly where they stashed the firearms, too, until they made the goose box anchors?

 

[justtrish]

It doesn't really matter why George was there. He was. Voluntarily. He knew about the murders in advance (buying parts for the silencers, etc.) yet he did nothing to stop them, warn the victims, etc. He cared nothing about the victims, regarded them as objects or lesser forms of life not worthy of his concern.

JMO, it's a remote possibility he went along for some other reason, but in the eyes of the law it doesn't matter. He was at the crime scene, he helped plan it, he helped cover it up as part of a conspiracy. He's guilty. Being mad at your dad isn't an excuse.

I totally agree. My comments were not to lessen his role or excuse it at all. So far we aren't seeing really any motive for George other than he is part of the 4 and they stick together. I was just suggesting that we are seeing the possibility that George was not going to go that night and did in fact go along because he feared for Jake.

I think he's just a responsible no matter weather he intended to go, planned it all, only bought parts, or any other role big or small. I just think it helps explain in my mind how he could end up going when this was about custody of Sophia and he isn't even mentioned much to this point. I think the motive of keeping Jake safe makes sense. I couldn't really understand before why Billy would kill Jake, but hearing those text exchanges, I do think the most importance was on the grandkids and the custody documents sorta have a new feel now after just the tone of those texts of Jake not letting Angela do something with Sophia. Maybe those custody documents gave the boys a little pause like what if dad killed Jake so mom could have Sophia. I mean they eliminated every other person in their way and the only other person then in Angela's way of having Sophia was Jake.