OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[RAISINISBACK]

Oops! You forgot the rest of the sentence.

George did not intervene, defend or try to protect any of these girls living in the same household. Not even his own wife.

Yes. That’s the whole point of this trial.

Maybe he was afraid of getting a bullet in the head while he was asleep.

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

JMO - Based on what's probable, not what's possible

• George was at the crime scenes that night, he probably fired the first shots at Chris Sr, missed because of nerves and fear Chris Sr returning fire - ballistics, GW4's gun used, etc.
• He went inside the crime scenes - at Chris Sr.s he helped Jake move the bodies. The shoe prints are the evidence. Jake's confession confirmed that
• All of their phones pinged at Peterson Rd, because that's how they planned it. Left regular phones there and took a burner phone or two - state has already provided evidence of that
• George was outside at crime scenes helping look for cameras, lookout, stood guard at Chris Jr's door,etc. Per Jake's confession and shoeprint evidence
• If jury isn't convinced of Aggravated Murder based on evidence, there is sufficient evidence for Conspiracy and Aggravated Burglary - both of those will make him guilty of Aggravated Murder.
• According to the legal definition of Conspiracy, the jury will find him guilty
• At some point he may confess if he feels the pressure. If so, it might convince Billy to do the same

ETA: I think GW4's motive came from the fear he and his mom whipped up that Hanna's collaboration with Tabby could result in GW4 losing full custody of Vine. AW hacked their accounts and figured out that Hanna was encouraging Tabby to get custody and telling her how to go about it. - per state's evidence of FB messages and texts between them

JMO MOO

Quick question. Was JW’s testimony (confession) about GW not being able to see with the silencer thing regarding testing it out or shooting at CR?

Do you know what I’m talking about or did I dream it?

 

[Betty P]

Maybe he was afraid of getting a bullet in the head while he was asleep.

JMO

He didn't have anything to fear from his family. If he was going to turn them in, he would have to take his son and leave. He could have stayed with FW or got a hotel room somewhere. LE would have helped him.

 

[Betty P]

Quick question. Was JW’s testimony (confession) about GW not being able to see with the silencer thing regarding testing it out or shooting at CR?

Do you know what I’m talking about or did I dream it?

I think that was mentioned early on as Jake's reason for taking over from GW4. We'll know more when Jake testifies.

ETA: Early in the trial.

 

[Myland]

Quick question. Was JW’s testimony (confession) about GW not being able to see with the silencer thing regarding testing it out or shooting at CR?

Do you know what I’m talking about or did I dream it?

Jmo I heard couldn’t see over it at scene.

 

[Pru2U]

Maybe he was afraid of getting a bullet in the head while he was asleep.

JMO

By who? His own family? Why on earth would he be afraid of his own family?

 

[Tiff23fr]

By who? His own family? Why on earth would he be afraid of his own family?

Sadly, this question immediately made me think of George's son.
Would Angela hold him over George?
Given all we have learned the possibility could be very real. IMO

For George to take his son from Angela and leave, one might consider the females who attempted to take a child and leave. We may also consider testimony from Tabby and HR's texts knowing the boys would never leave. IMO

When BCI separated them was his very chance to take his son, get away, and tell the truth IF this was the case. IMO

 

[gizmobtj]

based on "this is this guy's pattern"

If that is what it is based on why isn't Tabitha and her family dead?

JMO

I think -- just like Paul Flores, who stalked girls before Elizabeth Smart -- no one ended up dead until someone ended up dead. The point of them all chasing her, throwing a 2 x 4, getting guns, searching for her and following her in a truck is that she could have been Hannah Rhoden

 

[sunshineray]

LOL! Where do you get this stuff?

EA's testimony never once mentioned she saw or even knew of GW having any girlfriends (or friends that are girls). She testified about the lack of privacy in the home, specifically when it came to inappropriate questions or comments about sex, addressed directly to her or discussed in her presence. As one example, she recalled a conversation GW & BW had (while she was in the same room) about how they had used "*advertiser censored*" for sex.

And why would anyone find it "disturbing" if EA assumed JW & AW were a couple? What am I missing here?

EA was a phenomenal witness. Every single reporter, Tweeter, blogger & vlogger I saw RAVED about her. The big takeaway the rest of us got is how her testimony echoed Tabitha's experience within the household and was reminiscent of Hannah's experience (demonstrated through texts). So we're seeing family dynamics from the inside of the household as a whole -- repeated now 3 times. That's a big deal. Two of the women barely escaped with their lives, one did not. Whether or not George was singled out in her testimony, George was still part of that household and very much part of their experience.

Maybe the difference is, you're waiting for evidence of what George did while I'm looking straight at evidence of what George did not do. George did not intervene, defend or try to protect any of these girls living in the same household. Not even his own wife.

Concerning the lack of privacy in the W home EA testified to, IIRC she said doors had to stay open when you went into room. She either elaborated on her own or was asked to clarify. She said even the restroom! I remember thinking, what the heck is wrong with these W's not letting her close the bathroom door!? Am I remembering that correctly?

 

[sunshineray]

based on "this is this guy's pattern"

If that is what it is based on why isn't Tabitha and her family dead?

JMO

I'll take a guess...she signed the papers.

 

[sunshineray]

Quick question. Was JW’s testimony (confession) about GW not being able to see with the silencer thing regarding testing it out or shooting at CR?

Do you know what I’m talking about or did I dream it?

It was at the CRSR murder scene. You didn't dream it. AC said it in yhe opening statement.

 

[Skully67]

If JW and AW fulfill their part of the deal and the jury finds him guilty of the capital charges, he (and probably Billy)will get the DP.

It's all theoretical and such until GW4 ends up with the injection. Of course, he will be allowed a lot of appeals, which he may win, but serving time on Death Row is much harder than in the general population. No perks, only getting out of his cell for an hour a day, etc.

I thought JWs deal was no DP for anyone if he told everything to prosecution satisfaction.

 

[Pru2U]

When BCI separated them was his very chance to take his son, get away, and tell the truth IF this was the case. IMO

My thought was he could have stayed in OH when everyone else moved to Alaska or better still, stayed in AK when everyone else went back, since that was always his dream. But you are so right, if he was indeed fearful of his family killing him or taking his child, Montana would have been the perfect time & place to make his escape while he had protection.

Assuming he was indeed fearful and needed protection.

From his (captured) conversation with his son about the the BCI agents at the border, one could opine George was more fearful of BCI akilling him, JW & BW & taking his son. Or at least that’s what he told his 2 1/2 yo little boy.

 

[ohioexpat63]

It sounded to me like Jake was different during the dating period. Sounds like they went on dates just her and Jake and it was their intent or she thought it was the intent to date for a while then when they got engaged it doesn't sound like she had met the rest of the family other than seeing them at church and maybe once or twice going to their house. It was during the engagement that the Ws decided to move to Missouri and so she opted to get married to Jake sooner and move with them. I think she just believed what she saw of him and unfortunately most of that interaction was not with his family. Little did she know what would happen as soon as the I do's were said. How romatic right? Give me your phone and passwords SSN and all documents. It was said the wedding night was in a hotel and then the following day the W's minus Beth left for Missouri and she flew down a week later because something was flagged with her passport or something she would need to drive through Canada.

I think she was naïve and believed Jake was someone else until the literal wedding night when she saw an immediate change.

Jake had promised her they wouldn't consummate the marriage on the first night, but she said he did it anyway. I truly hope this jerk meets his maker in prison. I believe JW purposely kept EA away from his family so she wouldn't discover just how dysfuntional all 4 were, so as to not scare her off. The terror this lady endured cannot be overstated. Those 3 months must have felt like 30 years.

 

[Pyrite]

Oops! You forgot the rest of the sentence.

George did not intervene, defend or try to protect any of these girls living in the same household. Not even his own wife.

Yes. That’s the whole point of this trial.

So that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that George is guilty of conspiring with his family to kill 8 people? Because that is the point of this trail, not “intervene, defend or try to protect any of these girls living in the same household. Not even his own wife”

The Wagoners are an evil family. The way they treated the women JW and GW4 married show that. It doesn’t show GW4 was part of the conspiracy to murder though, IMO. Everything I’be seen and heard during the trial point towards Billy, Angela and Jake planning and carrying out the murders.

EA was a great witness against JW and AW. Nothing she said showed GW4 as part of the conspiracy vs part of an evil family he didn’t leave but stayed away from and argued with when he couldn’t Stay away. I think the same could be said about every witness to this point.

and about JW and AW‘s proffers, when people are know liars who get a benefit from saying what the prosecutor wants them to say, I have to strongly discount the possibility that they are being honest. I really hope the prosecutor's have something better than they have shown so far and I don’t me testimony from JW and AW.

MOO

 

[Chelly]

JMO - Based on what's probable, not what's possible

• George was at the crime scenes that night, he probably fired the first shots at Chris Sr, missed because of nerves and fear Chris Sr returning fire - ballistics, GW4's gun used, etc.
• He went inside the crime scenes - at Chris Sr.s he helped Jake move the bodies. The shoe prints are the evidence. Jake's confession confirmed that
• All of their phones pinged at Peterson Rd, because that's how they planned it. Left regular phones there and took a burner phone or two - state has already provided evidence of that
• George was outside at crime scenes helping look for cameras, lookout, stood guard at Chris Jr's door,etc. Per Jake's confession and shoeprint evidence
• If jury isn't convinced of Aggravated Murder based on evidence, there is sufficient evidence for Conspiracy and Aggravated Burglary - both of those will make him guilty of Aggravated Murder.
• According to the legal definition of Conspiracy, the jury will find him guilty
• At some point he may confess if he feels the pressure. If so, it might convince Billy to do the same

ETA: I think GW4's motive came from the fear he and his mom whipped up that Hanna's collaboration with Tabby could result in GW4 losing full custody of Vine. AW hacked their accounts and figured out that Hanna was encouraging Tabby to get custody and telling her how to go about it. - per state's evidence of FB messages and texts between them

JMO MOO

I like your compilation of the Probabilities List above. It is a useful, succinct summary imo.

I'd like to see the State take that 7-bullet points list:
*Present the substantiating evidence to the jury.
*Then, convince all 12-members of the jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that GW4 is guilty of those probable crimes.

If State does that, GW4 will be toast

 

[Pru2U]

Concerning the lack of privacy in the W home EA testified to, IIRC she said doors had to stay open when you went into room. She either elaborated on her own or was asked to clarify. She said even the restroom! I remember thinking, what the heck is wrong with these W's not letting her close the bathroom door!? Am I remembering that correctly?

YES! Isn't that humiliating? She also testified AW asked her if they had sex with S in the room and other inappropriate questions related to sex; there was the prostitute discussion between BW & GW and them reading her journal. Then Jake, Angie AND George confronted her with the diary. The three of them together watched as she burned it & flushed it down the toilet.

Yeah. EA's testimony made him look like a real normal guy. Ganging up on his his sister-in-law to confront her about her journal, watching on as she is forced to burn it & flush it down the toilet sounds like normal guy stuff, doesn't it?

JMO

Clarification: The photos of the journal pages submitted into evidence were from the electronics BCI confiscated. The journal no longer exists.

 

[Puzzles8]

I wonder how the jury is thinking at this point seven weeks into the trial. Reporters, tweeters, bloggers and WS won't determine George's verdict. This Jury will make that decision

Of course the trial is far from over and there must be weeks and weeks worth of more evidence to come. However, I am always curious about what is in the minds of the jury.

ETA - At beginning of trial, Judge set aside 8-9 weeks on the court's calendar for this trial.

I believe the Prosecution is saving the best testimony for the last. They want the best testimony to be fresh in the thoughts of the jurors when they go off to deliberate.

JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

And why would anyone find it "disturbing" if EA assumed JW & AW were a couple? What am I missing here?

What in their behavior toward each other led her to believe they were a couple with a child? I dont want to get in to this deeply but something in how they acted toward each other led her to believe that.

JMO

It might have been something as simple as Jake holding hands with Sophia and Angie holding her other hand. EW was very innocent in her upbringing, I think she just simply saw their mutual love for Sophia.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I thought JWs deal was no DP for anyone if he told everything to prosecution satisfaction.

I interpreted that to mean that George4 is in a death penalty trial but if Jake lives up to the proffer and testifies, G4 won't get the DP. But now I wonder if I'm wrong. Ack...