OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

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  • #481
Can you imagine having your own mother testify against you? This family is dysfunctional on so many levels. I think trying George first is a mistake on the part of his defense team. Jury is gonna wanna punish someone. MOO

Interesting. There must be a reason George is having his trial before Billy. I don't know if George's defense team had any say on who goes first, George or Jake.

I do know that Canepa wanted to try Jake first and had his trial date actually scheduled. I think it was because he had the most evidence pointing to him, and because of all this evidence there was a good chance he would get scared of getting the DP and take a plea to get out from under the DP which is exactly what happened.

It is common for DP defendants to take plea deals, to plead guilty in exchange to get the DP dropped.

It is the job of DP attorneys to keep their client from getting the DP. I believe Jake's attorneys leveled with him that with so much evidence against him he would most likely be found guilty and that he would also lose his 2nd trial, the penalty phase trial. This is a trial held for the jury to decide if they are going to give the defendant the DP or LWOP. Usually the other option is LWOP.

At a penalty phase trial the defense introduces as much mitigating evidence as they can get their hands on to get the jury to not vote for the DP. The prosecution presents aggravating arguments to convince the jury to give the defendant the DP.

I dont think Jake's attorneys would have been able to come up with any good mitigating arguments to present to the Jury. I think they knew that the prosecution would be burying Jake with their aggravating arguments for the DP. Prosecution could have called up enough witnesses and evidence and impact statements that would be overwhelming.

Some Mitigating Factors

Lack of a prior criminal record
Minor role in the offense;
Culpability of the victim;
Past circumstances, such as abuse that resulted in criminal activity;
Circumstances at the time of the offense, such as provocation, stress, or emotional problems that might not excuse the crime but might offer an explanation;
Mental or physical illness; and
Genuine remorse.

Aggravating Factors

Jurors are more likely to sentence to death defendants who have committed a heinous, brutal, or cruel murder. Such crimes include those involving a single victim who suffers a lot of pain before death and also crimes with multiple victims. The brutality of a murder triggers jurors’ desire for retribution, or punishing someone for the harm that he or she has caused. Several lines of research show that jurors treat more severe crimes more harshly when assigning punishment in general, not just in death penalty cases.

Usually, in death penalty trials, a separate listed factor is included for murders with multiple victims, because heinousness is a specific legal term measuring how much suffering occurred before the victim’s death.

In my opinion killing 8 people is enough of an aggravating factor for the DP. And Chris Sr. suffered his shattered arm and multiple shots, obviously these are aggravated factors. So many aggravating factors in this Case and I can't even think of any mitigating factors.


 
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  • #482
Tuesday, November 8th:
*Trial continues (Day 38) (@ 9am ET)/Hearing re wire tap first - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (37). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos.) & a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – for *George Washington Wagner IV (27/now 31) (Jakes’ bro) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/28/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count of 1st degree conspiracy, 4 counts of 1st degree aggravated burglary, 1 count of 5th degree unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts of 3rd degree evidence tampering, 1 count of 5th degree forgery, 1 count of 5th degree unauthorized use of computer or telecommunications, 1 count of 4th degree interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count of 5th degree obstructing justice, & 1 count of 1st degree engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will seek the DP. Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table only for Jake if his testimony is truthful. But George still faces the DP as he did not take a deal.
Trial began on 8/29/22 with final jury selection & the jury was seated on 8/30/22. 12 Jurors & 6 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 6 alternates: (5 women & 1 man). 9/30/22: Ill juror replaced with alternate. 12 jurors & 5 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 5 alternates (4 women & 1 man). A few are in their late 20s or 30s, but most are in their 40s or 50s.
Trial began with opening statements on Monday, 9/12/22. (Trial is scheduled for 8 to 9 weeks (56-63 days).
Added note: Regarding shoe sizes: Jake wore the size 10.5 & George the 11.

Crime info & court hearings from 11/28/18 thru 9/6/22 & Trial Day 1-36 (9/12 to 11/3/22) no court on 10/27 & 11/4/22 reference post #241 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-13

11/7/22 Monday, Trial Day 37: Defense witnesses: first due to scheduling issues. First up is Andrew Carson, who called Jake Wagner morning of the murders. Friend of both brothers. He's opted out of video.
Pastor Kelly Cinereski, from the Wagners' church in Seward, Alaska.
For more info see posts #244, 249 & 260 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-13
Defense witnesses: Pastor Kelly Cinereski. Shawn Fisher - tattoo artist from Portsmouth. He covered up diesel tattoo on George with a skull & 8 ball & 3 aces. Opted out. Michael Ramsey Walters Jr. - shop foreman at Buddy's Garage who was supervisor for both George & Jake. Opted out.
For more info see posts #262, 265, 268, 272, 275 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-14
Defense witness: Caleb Cinereski (Pastor's son).
For more info see posts #292, 298 & 299 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-15
For more info see posts #301, 306 & 314 (all witnesses) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-16
For more info see post #323 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-17
Defense witness: Barbara Moore, the lawyer who represented George in his divorce from Tabitha Claytor. Opted out.
For more info see posts #344 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-18
State witness: BCI Ryan Scheiderer discussing how BCI recreated false bed in the truck bought for murders per how Jake testified how he did it. Then got two volunteers to get inside.
While jury is out, judge says he's concerned about far down the road it is going about the movie.
For more info see posts #376 & 379 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-19
Judge discussion on showing movie “Boondock Saints”.
State witness: BCI Ryan Scheiderer continues.
For more info see posts #383, 384, 394, 397 (article) & 398 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-20
Tomorrow, the state's case should wrap up with wiretaps being played from 2018. BCI bugged the truck George & Jake were driving for R&L Carriers. Hearing on the clips that prosecutors want to play tomorrow, 11/8/22. NO COURT on Friday, 11/11/22 – Veteran’s Day.
 
  • #483
there is no evidence presented that george bought any ammo or any supplies of any kind. none. there is no evidence he was at the crime scene. none. there is no evidence he knew about it afterward. none. until MT. Ohio has a law that if you know someone committed a crime and that someone is family then if you do not tell on them if it is family you did not commit a crime by not reporting the crime your family member committed. so george did not commit any crime by not telling on his family when he found out. none.

As far as the shoeprint. The defense hasn't even began to present evidence so who knows. Maybe when the defense takes over we will learn what size shoe george wore and whether the testing matched him. If it was not a match you can bet the defense is bringing that in.

I just hope there is one juror who is a thinker.

Because canepa set up that proffer deal. she knew the only way to george was through jake and the only way to get jake to sacrifice george was though his angel mommy so she told him we have no real evidence against george, so give me george and i give angel mommy 30 years with a chance for time off for good behavior, working, ect. that 30 years could turn into 15 very easy since angel mommy wasn't guilty of killing anyone, just conspiracy, and if prison gets too overcrowded out she goes.

Look over my typing and spelling please. fatigue does crazy things to your arms and hands.

JMO
I am pretty much past punctuation and spelling worries myself. Long is it's half way legible. lol I didn't mean they had evidence of a purchase, all they need is one bit of evidence that places him helping, in the tiniest bit. You are right about Ohio law, but, we can see how entwined this family was, in that house. Where is his alibi? Mommy D could have provided that for him but she did not. I truly think that his mother sunk his battleship. While it was not physical proof, it was strong evidence, when combined with JWs testimony. No way G3 would testify unless he made a deal, but he's being like G4, closed mouth so far. People who commit murder/serious crimes tend to leave out important little details. They can also add in little details that didn't happen (G4 stood here, I stood there). They were the only ones there. The only survivors of the night, old enough to be able to know. They are murderers and liars. Are they turning on their own? Probably, but I think G4 may be like AW, he may not understand b/c he didn't actually murder anyone. He was "just there", or he only "insert action", but that counts.
 
  • #484
It really is like a big puzzle. I know many pick at each piece and say this might not be right, this can't be, this doesn't fit or that piece Jake might be lying about, etc. I see it as a large puzzle. I see BCI thoroughly investigating and trying their hardest to get these 4 to talk or to slip up. They did not railroad this family. They didn't plant evidence, make false accusations, or rush to arrest. They waited, they took their time, they used wire taps, they attempted to get phone records, they followed them, they scoured financials, they followed every lead related to the W's and those not connected to them and it all kept coming back to them.

These are smart agents, talented agents, agents with specialized training, who have dealt with many crimes, crime scenes and technical evidence. They had a family who agreed to not talk on the phone and reminded each other not to talk on the phone, they ran water when they talked in the house or went in the laundry room and turned on the dryer for background noise. They didn't talk in their vehicles and when they did they threw off conversations. I mean innocent people do not do that. There is no need to do that. So while they were adding up some evidence, they were also realizing what was missing. You get interrogated at the border and you don't say a word about it. Not one word?

There are so many pieces that add up for us to see the bigger picture so taking out a few doesn't change the picture at all. Maybe the tattoo isn't connected, maybe there was no connection to boondock saints, maybe dying the hair was coincidence, maybe George's warning text was just because dad doesn't like BCI, maybe George is just paranoid because everyone else is, maybe George has no idea things are bought with his card, maybe he had no idea silencers were being built, maybe he bought a replacement gun for daddy less than a week after the murders, but had no idea it's because Jake ruined the old one trying to make a silencer. Maybe he had no idea mom was in Walmart buying murder shoes while he waited in the car, maybe he dug a post hole to bury murder weapons, but had no idea what it was really for. Maybe he helped build the duck house thingy and had no idea murders weapons were in it, maybe he never once overheard conversations about the plot, maybe he didn't really vote on murdering the Wagners.. on and on.. There are an awful lot of things that he would have just had to miss, not see, not hear, not know and lots of coincidences, a complete 180 from how he usually interreacted with his family.. I mean what are the odds? So I see the picture even with missing pieces. It's a conspiracy and we will never know the truth. We do know George didn't talk. He didn't come forward and assist, say he was threatened, he was worried, he suspected his family, etc. He didn't do that because he was involved.
They had many years of living together in close quarters to get their stories straight. They were obsessed with what they had done and proud of it, too. As career criminals, they’re dangerous good at lying, even after they confess. They continue to have no remorse.
 
  • #485
<modsnip - off topic> I began to think about george. I divided it into 3 phases.

The planning

the participation

the coverup.

Billy assigned them jobs.

Angie - buy supplies
Jake - get vehicle and guns and ammo and make silencers
Billy- watch the r's and decide when the time is right
George...........nothing, no job, You don't find that odd that george did not get a job assigned to him?

Billy planned murders:
Billy planned murders while out on the road with jake
billy planned murders under the carport with angie
billy planned murders with george............nowhere..billy did not plan murders with george. You dont find it odd that billy who's idea it was, who had his finger all in this never discussed or planned the murders with george? Why? because he did not want to go another 20 rounds with george who may have put an end to billys big plan by telling jake and angie you are not doing this.

The participation.

Billy stops the truck and asks jake if he wants to go through with this.
Billy asks george........nothing. because george was not in the truck.

Jake tells george to shoot, george froze, jake takes the gun and fire.
Billy goes bat shyte crazy and jake has to calm him down.
George does.........nothing. because george was not there.

The cover up.

george wakes up late. jake is already up. why? some sleepytime medicine in his food the night before?
George gets upset BCI is digging up farm. why? defense gets in to evidence in front of the jury that george thinks the man he sold the farm to is going to sue him because BCI is tearing up the farm, damaging it.
George is upset at the MT border, yelling a bw, did angel mom tell his she saw tabbi there talking to BW? or did BCI let george know about the casings, evidence from the searches they had and it sinks in on george that his mom, dad and brother did this. So much so that when he gets to alaska he wants to take his son and move in with a woman alone.

I tell you what else I think is a joke. george slithering out of the back of that truck loaded down with 18 bales of hay, which would have put it almost sitting on the ground, crawling underneath it with a red hot muffler after they drove it for 2 hours, crawling behind the back tire and still under the truck lays underneath it with a sks rifle. All in jakes testimony. Now if jake had thrown in a hydraulic jack i just might have believed it. But one capable of lifting a 3000 lbs truck and 1080 to 1800 lbs of hay.

<modsnip>

JMO
I hear what your saying. However, BCI found shell casings on property owned by George (name is on the deed) that are an exact match as being fired from the same gun as shell casings found at two of those crime scenes. More importantly, the shell casings were fired from a gun that George owned. All that information is now entered as evidence in this trial outside of Jake and Angela's testimony where they state he helped plan, participate and cover up the crime. Shoes or no shoes, murder truck or no murder truck.....He owned a gun that was used in the murder of 8 people.
 
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  • #486
Jmo I agree where is the hay. Why didn’t they show center support if there was one. Jake probably didn’t describe center support. Where was the tie downs there had to be a lot of tie down with that being too heavy with hay on the curves on these roads. That board holding all that weight hitting bump after bump on how bad these roads were and are.
I have lived in rural areas my whole life. I have never seen bales of hay or straw tied down when loaded even stacked on hay wagons 12 feet high…
Also, the piece used may not have been warped like the example and if it was, maybe they turned it over so it was bowed up and weight would have straightened it…
My opinions only…
 
  • #487
I just can’t imagine contributing to my son’s prosecution and likely helping him get the death penalty. I would rather die myself. If it does turn out that way, they should make her watch. Despicable people. And I’d take those grand babies, change their last names, move as far away as I could and never let any of these people see them again. Can you imagine shooting your child’s mother in the head and leaving the baby there in her blood? Wasn’t his so I guess he didn’t care. Hope those kids are with some decent people who love them. MOO
 
  • #488
I have lived in rural areas my whole life. I have never seen bales of hay or straw tied down when loaded even stacked on hay wagons 12 feet high…
Also, the piece used may not have been warped like the example and if it was, maybe they turned it over so it was bowed up and weight would have straightened it…
My opinions only…
Jmo but have you ever seen a haul like Jake described. Going to murder people. I would just like to see it as true to description. Did they plan to drive slow and cautious to avoid losing load? The deputies could have put hay bales on top, why didn’t they do that?
 
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  • #489
Then that means Jake lied like a dog because he said under oath they stacked 18 bales of hay on top of the false bottom. Parker mentioned it friday when he said i am not a farmer but i have on reliable source a bale of hay weighs between 50 to 60 lbs.

I don't remember who's tweet it was in about what parker said but i read it. maybe someone else knows.
jmo
I can’t believe they would have more than one layer of hay on top that board. What would be the need? It would look like a truck full at a distance, especially at night.
Also, Billy supposedly stopped on the way to ask if JW still wanted to go through with it. Why stop to ask that? Because he was in the bed of the truck, maybe? MOO
 
  • #490
This murder truck is the craziest part of the planning.
CRsr and Billy knew each other for decades.
Wouldn’t CRsr be suspicious of Billy arriving, late night, in an unknown unrecognized truck piled high with hay?
I don’t think Billy ever before this date, arrived on UHR a or drove around Pike County with bales of hay stacked high, or any hay at all.
 
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  • #491
  • #492
I just can’t imagine contributing to my son’s prosecution and likely helping him get the death penalty. I would rather die myself. If it does turn out that way, they should make her watch. Despicable people. And I’d take those grand babies, change their last names, move as far away as I could and never let any of these people see them again. Can you imagine shooting your child’s mother in the head and leaving the baby there in her blood? Wasn’t his so I guess he didn’t care. Hope those kids are with some decent people who love them. MOO
Totally agree. I don't care the circumstances -- I'd never contribute to the DP on my child, period. Prison, yes - volunteer the truth. Death, NO WAY would I take a deal that would help send my child to death row.

edited
 
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  • #493
I am pretty much past punctuation and spelling worries myself. Long is it's half way legible. lol I didn't mean they had evidence of a purchase, all they need is one bit of evidence that places him helping, in the tiniest bit. You are right about Ohio law, but, we can see how entwined this family was, in that house. Where is his alibi? Mommy D could have provided that for him but she did not. I truly think that his mother sunk his battleship. While it was not physical proof, it was strong evidence, when combined with JWs testimony. No way G3 would testify unless he made a deal, but he's being like G4, closed mouth so far. People who commit murder/serious crimes tend to leave out important little details. They can also add in little details that didn't happen (G4 stood here, I stood there). They were the only ones there. The only survivors of the night, old enough to be able to know. They are murderers and liars. Are they turning on their own? Probably, but I think G4 may be like AW, he may not understand b/c he didn't actually murder anyone. He was "just there", or he only "insert action", but that counts.
GWIV was placed at the scenes several times and armed. He had the SKS at CRsr’s place. It is said he left afoot print inside at CRsr’s place. He was said to be in DR’s house at CRjr’s door. Even the Defense puts him at the scene if they say he went to protect JW from GWIII. If any of these are true, he is guilty of conspiracy. All my opinions only…
 
  • #494
This murder truck is the craziest part of the planning.
CRsr and Billy knew each other for decades.
Wouldn’t CRsr be suspicious of Billy arriving, late night, in an unknown unrecognized truck piled high with hay?
I don’t think Billy ever before this date, arrived on UHR a or drove around Pike County with bales of hay stacked high, or any hay at all.

I don't think it had hay piled on it that night. We've checked the photos and don't see any evidence of hay bales at Chris Sr's yard. They were probably used to test it.

It's also not often you see a criminal going to a crime scene with their own weapon, then giving it to an armed accomplice to shoot.

Jake couldn't carry and shoot two weapons at a busy crime scene, nor could Billy.
 
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  • #495
I don't think it had hay piled on it that night. We've checked the photos and don't see any evidence of hay bales at Chris Sr's yard. They were probably used to test it.

It's also not often you see a criminal going to a crime scene with their own weapon, then giving it to an armed accomplice to shoot.

Jake couldn't carry and shoot two weapons at a busy crime scene, nor could Billy.
I agree. And at the end of the day it doesnt really matter. The hay makes hay for some looking to poke holes but it doesnt take away from the fact the 4Ws conspired to commit...
 
  • #496
Jmo I disagree the state couldn’t allow George not there. Not after having George in jail for three years. There was no other evidence they had to have Jake’s testimony to get George. Do you think Jake and Angela are honest people all of a sudden? I don’t buy he saw the light for a minute. No the state doesn’t say tell me a lie, they say we need all four for a deal.
This is how the system works. George was arrested. He waived a speedy trial, his choice. There was COVID, which disrupted courts, along with everyone else. Just because he was arrested and held in jail pending trial doesn't mean that the state has to fake evidence to convict him.
Do I think this family of habitual criminals are honest people? Of course not. Do I think that Jake and Angela know that there is evidence to convict family members of killing 8 people? Yes they do. If they agreed to a deal, with support from their defense attorneys, they realize they have to tell the truth about the murders--when it happened, who was involved, etc. Can they shade the truth to make George look less guilty? Yes, but only so far. Can they lie about his participation? I suppose but why would they do that? If there is evidence that puts George there (footprints blood that G told Angela were his), ballistics, etc., then they have to admit he was there.
Finally, George could have called the police when he heard about the murder plan. He didn't. And it defies imagination that Jake was building silencers/suppressers and a false bed in a murder truck and he was shooting off all this ammo on their property and he never said, "Hey, what are you up to?" It defies belief that Hanna and Tabitha were discussing both of them having custody and George didn't know that upset his mother. So if he knew ANY of it, he should have at least called HIS FRIEND FRANKIE and said "my family is planning to murder you guys."
 
  • #497
Palmer making some good food for thought for the jury
 
  • #498
  • #499
OMG - "alot like this case, correct" LMAO -- Schneider - I SAID NO
 
  • #500
Defense argument about exhaust fumes is a moot point. It's not a factor if the truck had a tailpipe, and probably even if it had no exhaust pipes at all. I rode from Ohio to Florida on a chaise lawn chair in the back of a pickup with a topper on it. 16 hours. I also made the return trip.

The only time I've strapped down hay is when it was stacked extra high and headed down the freeway. When you load the bales you interlock each bale on top of each other and alternate which direction the bales are turned, the entire load is being held except the top layer. The top layer is usually fewer bales, just holding the ends of the bales underneath but not extending to the edge.

If I'm George I'm saying c'mon guys, is this all we have?!! At this point he's just trying to enjoy the ride to court. moo
 
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