OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[Curiosum]

Do you have a law degree?

From what I understand he was arrested on drug and RICO charges and served 10 years in federal prison. He now works as a prison consultant.

 

[IQuestion]

I wonder if, since he was arrested while in her company, if she is trying to catch his eye and let him know she had nothing to do with anything leading up to his arrest?
She just looks sort of desperate trying to catch his eye in court. I think she's trying to "tell" him something.

PEPPER Rereading posts (Fed offices/stock market closed for official mourning RIP.) this a.m. and I finally "got the implication" of what you wrote. Duh....showing up in court, for every arraignment...does kind of scream (or scoot?) "Hey you guys, I am you kin...I would never set you up and your arrest in Lexington was just as shocking to me." ??
Or, another thought....loves her brother so much, she wanted to make sure he was "far away" so as not to witness the arrest of his wife, his two sons, his mother-in-law, and his mother.... Let's face it, all of them in the same room could have pretty dangerous, during a "take down." In that regard...LE did an incredible job taking so many into custody, without incident.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The Tale of Al Capone

Al Capone was a notorious Chicago mobster in the 1920’s. He was involved in murder, racketeering, illegal gambling, prostitution, etc. Eliot Ness tried for years to convict him of his crimes, without success. Who was finally able to send Capone to jail? The IRS. In 1927 a law was passed making the “profits” from illegal operations taxable. Capone was finally convicted and sent to jail in 1931 on tax evasion.

Illegal profits are often in the form of cash. If you have a lot of cash you need to either use it, hide it in a bag or launder it through a business or charity. FW appeared to have quite a few LLC’s and Non-profits set up.
I think that a sizable amount of cash must have been found during the execution of search warrants (for murder) on their properties. This opened the door for LE to request new and broader warrants to search or surveil locations relating to the evidence of tax evasion. The final pieces of evidence or surveillance they needed to charge and likely convict the Wag’s on murder charges might have been found during the tax related searches/surveillance. Just my speculation and opinions!

Though FW may think she has dodged the murder bullet now (bad pun), the IRS will make sure she is left penniless soon……

Curious to know more about FW’s Crystal Springs nursing facility. I find it odd that there were only four to five patients. Why did she initially get involved in that facility? Clearly it was personally profitable to FW in salary and lease payments, but very out of line with her other businesses & interests. I also find it odd that she requested a bond exception so that she could visit the facility. Had that property been searched before?

Curious to know more about FW’s “church”. A church could easily explain large cash deposits. I recall that when LE searched FW’s “church”, she complained records were taken.

Curious to know the reputations of FW’s accountants/tax accountants and lawyers that her empire used.

Curious to know how GWW IV got custody of his son B. If they were willing to murder to get custody of SW, I can’t imagine what they might have done to get custody of BW.

Curious why BW was not named GGW V. Looked the name B up on Urban Dictionary. Very interesting…

Curious to know what the other tattoos on III’s arm mean. I’m scared to ask there are any more tattoos on his body. Noticed they tried to cover his arm today.

Curious to learn why “Bob”? – eldest brother, cut ties with the family business and how long ago.

Oh, so many more questions!

New member, probably should have made my username CuriousOne!

If they found large amounts of cash that would go to RICO. LE would report it to the IRS but it would be IRS investigators who would request a subpoena for financial records to find any tax evasion issues. That would only be after the IRS requested an audit and gave her a chance to explain the cash found.

People can have large amounts of cash they got legitimately. Think of the piggy bank scenario where someone doesn't trust banks so stuffs all their money under a mattress.

I don't think FW is going to have any issues with the IRS unless she hasn't been reporting all the profits in her business. Even then it would be dicey and a skilled CPA could explain it away.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

O/T IANAP (I Am Not A Painter) but I can honestly see whoever controls the purse strings saying NO when asked to approve the purchase of painters tape. I can also see the maintenance staff (one or two people, perhaps? Dunno) rushing through the job and not wanting to take time to mask because they have to take care of a clogged bathroom drain or the grass needs mowed or whatever. IMHO.

Now you all have me looking at that doorway. And that ghastly red carpet. Why does everything connected with this crime have to be blood red?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I've wondered if she was hoping for a guilty verdict for everyone. She could do as she pleases with the farm and business then. No mom to tell her what to do. She may also be set to inherit everything. On that line of thinking, she could have been helping LE in a very subtle way.

If she is set to inherit the whole thing, with her being unmarried and childless, how long will she live if BW is out of jail?

 

[Dudly]

If they found large amounts of cash that would go to RICO. LE would report it to the IRS but it would be IRS investigators who would request a subpoena for financial records to find any tax evasion issues. That would only be after the IRS requested an audit and gave her a chance to explain the cash found.

People can have large amounts of cash they got legitimately. Think of the piggy bank scenario where someone doesn't trust banks so stuffs all their money under a mattress.

I don't think FW is going to have any issues with the IRS unless she hasn't been reporting all the profits in her business. Even then it would be dicey and a skilled CPA could explain it away.

JMO

I knew a guy years ago that would have as much as $10,000 in his pocket on any given day. He was a well known business man and made it legally.
But doing that can give you grief. There was a man that brought a large amount of cash on a trip to buy stock for his nursery business. He was arrested and his money confiscated on suspicion he was there to buy drugs because he had a large amount of cash. He had a hard time getting his money back...

 

[pepper 34]

I would think that she could visit him in jail. She could tell him what she wanted to then. I just think she wanted him to see she was there supporting him.

JMO

I was wondering if visits could take place so soon. I would like to know. If she wanted him to see her she did a good job of it. I wasn't as much impressed with the "scooting" as I was with the back and forth straining of her head as she tried to see around his escort to his seating area... the look on her face seemed excessive and desperate to me. I can imagine wanting a sibling to see me and know I was there, but I would still remember where I was and follow courtroom decorum and not turn on the antics which seemed inappropriate for the setting to me... obviously, that's just my opinion and what I would do under those circumstances. Because, if I could communicate with my sibling before the court hearing... he/she would already know I was there even if they didn't actually see me.

 

[IQuestion]

Just to clarify....Many businesses receive cash...lots of cash. There is no problem with receiving cash from your business. (Think barbers, school carnivals, mini marts, fast food restaurants, swap meets, movie theaters etc.) And as long as a person reports the cash as income on their tax return, no problem. (Look into BSA Bank Secrecy Act and SAR Suspicious Activity Reports etc.) If you deposit large amounts of cash, "unexplained cash" expect that a bank manager will make an effort to engage you in conversation about your business.... they are usually very subtle and friendly when they do. The IRS is "not mean" about cash, they just want it to make sense.

 

[pepper 34]

PEPPER Rereading posts (Fed offices/stock market closed for official mourning RIP.) this a.m. and I finally "got the implication" of what you wrote. Duh....showing up in court, for every arraignment...does kind of scream (or scoot?) "Hey you guys, I am you kin...I would never set you up and your arrest in Lexington was just as shocking to me." ??
Or, another thought....loves her brother so much, she wanted to make sure he was "far away" so as not to witness the arrest of his wife, his two sons, his mother-in-law, and his mother.... Let's face it, all of them in the same room could have pretty dangerous, during a "take down." In that regard...LE did an incredible job taking so many into custody, without incident.

But, I don't think she knew about the pending arrests. I really think the arrests were a surprise for all those involved. I can't even imagine why the Wagners came back to mainland USA. But, then again, the efforts made to go to Alaska were irrational to me, as well.
"There is no geographical fix when it comes to problems that are not going to disappear."
When they went to Alaska... that was the moment of admission of guilt for me.

 

[Julia966]

Just to clarify....Many businesses receive cash...lots of cash. There is no problem with receiving cash from your business. (Think barbers, school carnivals, mini marts, fast food restaurants, swap meets, movie theaters etc.) And as long as a person reports the cash as income on their tax return, no problem. (Look into BSA Bank Secrecy Act and SAR Suspicious Activity Reports etc.) If you deposit large amounts of cash, "unexplained cash" expect that a bank manager will make an effort to engage you in conversation about your business.... they are usually very subtle and friendly when they do. The IRS is "not mean" about cash, they just want it to make sense.

Exactly. The IRS does not have the power to leave FW penniless just for the hell of it.

 

[Betty P]

From what I understand he was arrested on drug and RICO charges and served 10 years in federal prison. He now works as a prison consultant.

Thanks, Curiosum and welcome to our thread! You wouldn't want to take a look at some preliminary autopsy and heavily redacted final autopsy reports for 8 people, would you? We've been managing a very complicated murder case (8 victims) here for the last couple of years with almost no information to work with. The lead investigator in this case, our AG Mike DeWine even went to the Ohio Supreme Court to have the final AR's kept from the public.

They recently released the unredacted versions of the preliminary autopsy reports and redacted final AR's are at the link below

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

 

[Betty P]

Exactly. The IRS does not have the power to leave FW penniless just for the hell of it.

True, they often don't even go after people who are strong suspects for money laundering, etc. Kind of sad, the IRS has been threatened and stripped of a lot of funding making it difficult to go after criminals.

 

[Hatfield]

True, they often don't even go after people who are strong suspects for money laundering, etc. Kind of sad, the IRS has been threatened and stripped of a lot of funding making it difficult to go after criminals.

I researched one time what kind of money deposit or other transaction in a bank causes a "red flag" which results in the bank reporting the amount to certain federal departments that may further look into it and if I remember it right I think the magic number was around $10,000.

This article seems to confirm what I remember. So if I ever have that kind of money and need to deposit then a helpful hint would be to only deposit 1/2 on one day and wait a week or more before depositing the other half. LOL Not sure if that trick would work or if they would accumulate for a month to trigger the reporting. LOL

"A currency transaction report (CTR) is a report that U.S. financial institutions are required to file with FinCEN for each deposit, withdrawal, exchange of currency, or other payment or transfer, by, through, or to the financial institution which involves a transaction in currency of more than $10,000"

Currency transaction report - Wikipedia

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Just to clarify....Many businesses receive cash...lots of cash. There is no problem with receiving cash from your business. (Think barbers, school carnivals, mini marts, fast food restaurants, swap meets, movie theaters etc.) And as long as a person reports the cash as income on their tax return, no problem. (Look into BSA Bank Secrecy Act and SAR Suspicious Activity Reports etc.) If you deposit large amounts of cash, "unexplained cash" expect that a bank manager will make an effort to engage you in conversation about your business.... they are usually very subtle and friendly when they do. The IRS is "not mean" about cash, they just want it to make sense.

I frequently am called to represent someone who is being audited even though I did not actually do their taxes. If the person actually preparing the return is not a CPA or actuary and does not hold a AFSP certificate from the IRS, then they cannot represent their client before the IRS. So the client has to obtain someone who has the credentials to practice before the IRS. Having been called in that capacity many times I have some experience with the IRS and their methods.

The IRS does not want to put a taxpayer in jail. After all the taxpayer cannot earn any money in jail and so therefore cannot pay their taxes, so the IRS does not benefit from this. So they give the taxpayer every opportunity to explain any discrepancies between their books (usually Quickbooks), bank statements and what is reported on their returns. They generally accept any explanations. They also accept the taxpayers statement that they simply made a mistake or it was a typo. Like I said they would prefer a taxpayer be out and earning money to pay taxes on.

Although I cannot comment on FW's tax return since I have no idea what she reports, I would say, in general, that she would be reporting according to her books. Also with the price she is charging for her horses, dog, pigs, ect that people would be paying her by check in order to have some sort of receipt. Therefore she would be making sure her bank statements match up with her books.

JMO

 

[IQuestion]

I researched one time what kind of money deposit or other transaction in a bank causes a "red flag" which results in the bank reporting the amount to certain federal departments that may further look into it and if I remember it right I think the magic number was around $10,000.

This article seems to confirm what I remember. So if I ever have that kind of money and need to deposit then a helpful hint would be to only deposit 1/2 on one day and wait a week or more before depositing the other half. LOL Not sure if that trick would work or if they would accumulate for a month to trigger the reporting. LOL

"A currency transaction report (CTR) is a report that U.S. financial institutions are required to file with FinCEN for each deposit, withdrawal, exchange of currency, or other payment or transfer, by, through, or to the financial institution which involves a transaction in currency of more than $10,000"

Currency transaction report - Wikipedia

HATFIELD bbm Hmm, not a good idea, even in jest. 3 deposits in cash of/near $2,000 in a month would/could generate a SAR (suspicious activity report.) I would love to have a lengthy discussion on money laundering.... but per the disclaimer: "I am not a money laundering expert, I only play one on TV." ps. I did a lot of reading on the subject when there was a series of murders in my community and lots of "unexplained/uneconciled cash" questions kept coming up.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

True, they often don't even go after people who are strong suspects for money laundering, etc. Kind of sad, the IRS has been threatened and stripped of a lot of funding making it difficult to go after criminals.

Al Capone was convicted because he mistakenly believed that "they can't collect legal taxes from illegal money.

The IRS defines gross income as "all income from whatever source derived." So if you are receiving income from an illegal source you must report it on your return. If you report all income derived from an illegal source on your tax return then you don't have a problem with the IRS. But the IRS will report that illegal source to the proper federal agency.

Example: John Taxpayer is dealing drugs. John reports every penny he has received for dealing drugs on a Schedule C under the name of Taxpayer's Illegal Drugs Service with an unclassified code. John then takes off his legitimate deductions e.g. contact labor to his dealers to whom he has issued a correct 1099 for selling the drugs for him and the cost of growing/producing his illegal drugs. John is then in compliance with the IRS code and therefore John only has to worry about the IRS catching it and reporting him to the DEA.

Example: John Taxpayer does not report all his profits from his illegal drug dealing. Then John would be investigated by the IRS Special Agents who would then begin tracking all his financial activities. he would eventually be charged with tax evasion.

Financial investigations are by their nature very document intensive. Specifically, they involve records, like bank account information and real estate files, which point to the movement of money. Any record that pertains to, or shows the paper trail of events involving money is important. The major goal in a financial investigation is to identify and document the movement of money during the course of a crime. The link between where the money comes from, who gets it, when it is received and where it is stored or deposited, can provide proof of criminal activity.

Criminal Investigation's contribution to the war on narcotics is vital but sometimes difficult to recognize, because the work of IRS special agents usually doesn't make the headlines. The long hours of tracking down and documenting financial leads isn't glamorous, but it does allow an investigation to go right to the door of the leader of the narcotics organization. A complete financial analysis and reconstruction of a drug organization's financial activity as it relates to unreported income on tax returns and money laundering can often be critical to making the conviction.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have been thinking about that necklace. She spent a good amount of time making sure it was seen by the news cameras. I wonder if it was a signal of some kind not only to BW but to someone watching the proceedings on new stations? Like a church in Alaska?

JMO

 

[pepper 34]

I have been thinking about that necklace. She spent a good amount of time making sure it was seen by the news cameras. I wonder if it was a signal of some kind not only to BW but to someone watching the proceedings on new stations? Like a church in Alaska?

JMO

I really think she's just a bit immature, jmo. No doubt others will disagree... but the physical attempt to catch GW3's attention, in a setting where many adults would remain calmly seated and the obvious, almost preening (show-offy, to me) behavior over the necklace while, at the same time, glancing into the camera lens directly several times, just seems very "grade school" to me. I know she has occupation responsibilities but emotional development doesn't always keep up with "the whole picture." I found her personal behavior in the courtroom, during the above mentioned incidents, to be like that of someone younger than her stated years.
Jmo.

 

[Betty P]

I have been thinking about that necklace. She spent a good amount of time making sure it was seen by the news cameras. I wonder if it was a signal of some kind not only to BW but to someone watching the proceedings on new stations? Like a church in Alaska?

JMO

JMO, I think she's just trying to present an image of Wagners being a close-knit, regular folk, pious family. Notice no expensive or designer clothing or professional hair styling. Fredericka's attorneys are probably coaching her. JMO, Fredericka is still calling the shots in the family and she probably wants RW at each arraignment to send the message that the family is sticking together and supporting each other. Probably hoping to prevent any of them plea bargaining or throwing each other under the bus.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

Hi @Larry Levine. Welcome to websleuths.

The Ws had their arraignement hearings and they pleaded not guilty. Could you please explain what usually happens next in a pre-trial?