OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[RAISINISBACK]

Agree. From all the evidence, the Rhoden family did nothing to bring these murders upon themselves. Nothing. The problem is with the Wagners. Angry, evil, lazy, dishonest, arrogant, delusional, entitled Wagners.

It's surprising that, after all the evidence and arrests, some folks are still trying to find a reason to blame the Rhoden family for their murders, as if they did something to provoke the Wagners. They didn't. The Wagners are brutal psychos, period. They're 100% to blame for these murders.

There was no feud, no "hillbilly justice", no quid pro quo. Just one family trying to defend themselves from attacks by another. Rhodens didn't going over to the W's house to assault or steal from them. There were no reports of Hanna Rhoden assaulting or threatening Jake Wagner.

Just a brutal murder of 8 innocent people by someone who felt they were entitled to do so.

BBM

There was no feud
We don't know whether there was a "feud" or not. We have no idea what lead up to these murders and won't have until the trials, if there is any.

I don't think anyone believes the R's are responsible or that they did anything bad to bring this on themselves. But there were things in which the R's and W's disagreed about. The "wrongs" that the W's felt the R's did to them could have been simply some words exchanged, or they could have even been imagined slights. Who knows? But I do think the W's had the Anse Hatfield "wipe them all out"mentality and did want to avenge themselves for any "injustices" the R's may have did to them, real or imaginary. No one said the W's were sane rational people.

It's kind of like two people trying to park a car in the same space. Words are exchanged and one of them pulls out a gun and kills the other one. The victim didn't really "do" anything but the killer perceives it as a "slight".

In today's world everyone who gets into an argument with someone else runs the risk of that person pulling out a gun or knife. You never know what crazies are out there. It's not that the victim did anything "wrong" it's that the killer has some serious anger issues. But very few people are "random" victims. Most people are targeted by someone they interacted with.

Such is the case with the R's. They interacted with the W's on several different levels. They were close friends. They were business partners. Jake and Hanna were in a relationship. Who knows what was said or done that was perceived as a "wrong" by the W's. So yes it could be seen as the W's getting "justice" for perceived "wrongs" did to them by the R's. No one said the "wrongs" were real or bad.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Unless I'm reading this wrong; The last Homestead to be awarded under the provisions of the Homestead Act was in 1988.

Homesteading

The Homestead Act was officially repealed by the 1976 Federal Land Policy and Management Act, though a ten-year extension allowed homesteading in Alaska until 1986.
Frequently Asked Questions - Homestead National Monument of America (U.S. National Park Service)

So they would not have went there with the idea of getting free land.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

BBM
You say you are from Michigan and moved to Alaska. Can the same claim be made that you moved there and was affiliated with Olson's Alaska Militia since Olson was from Michigan and moved to Alaska?

That’s a serious accusation. No I have never been affiliated with any militia. In fact I can say the groups are so secretive and radical that they terrify me.

Although I worked in the public sector, and part of my job was to be aware of these and many more groups, I avoided contact with them. The compound is about 20 +- land miles from Kenai almost straight north. I believe the rental home and church were in MUCH closer proximity.

It’s easy to avoid groups a person does not wish to be affiliated with.

Informative reading:

Militia movement resurfaces across nation

Benefit or Burden? Alaska Militias Prep for Inevitable Challenges, Worst Case Scenarios


https://www.commerce.alaska.gov/web/Portals/4/pub/8_28_17 Karen McGahan comment.pdf

This article clearly states the Waggies attended the conservative Baptist Church. This is over 100 miles from Nikiski, but the first article explains Mr. Olson, is a pastor in the Baptist faith.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Unless I'm reading this wrong; The last Homestead to be awarded under the provisions of the Homestead Act was in 1988.

Homesteading

The Homestead Act was officially repealed by the 1976 Federal Land Policy and Management Act, though a ten-year extension allowed homesteading in Alaska until 1986.
Frequently Asked Questions - Homestead National Monument of America (U.S. National Park Service)

In the traditional sense as a patent from the Federal Government homesteading has not been offered in decades.

I am fortunate to have purchased a homestead with a beautiful log home. The main cabin was built in 1935 or so.

I can’t tell the story here, but suffice it to say after my children and grandchildren that piece of property, the home and it’s history was a part of the reason I cried most of the flight when I left Alaska for the desert with my dogs and 5 suitcases. Circumstances had changed, and I thought that would be my final home. Although I still own it, my back forced me out of the cold.

 

[StarEyes]

I think it possible that someone was bragging. Perhaps amongst each other at the Farm and hired help overheard. If GW3 did in fact acquire the scorpion tattoo since the murders and it’s design represents he killed 8 people then his arrogance may have given a strong clue.

I just don’t get it. Apparently together the Waggies were smart enough to make a fairly sophisticated plan to execute these murders.
But as individuals I think they behave as a preschooler telling a lie.

What is your viewpoint re the dumbest parts of this case? Something they did or didn’t do?

The scorpion tat was a VERY stupid thing to get especially on his hand. He should have had it out on his butt. There’s a full body tatted guy in England who just had his ding a ling (had to find a word for it I could use here, apologies if it’s an immature word as well or if anyone was offended) tattooed. They wrapped it over a rolling pin to be able to get a clear image for the tat. George’s tat is that stupid. The minute a LEOs viewed it, they knew what it represented. And maybe he does have a butt tattoo.

Picking up Sophia at an odd time just hours prior to the killings.

Evidence they left undestroyed.

Moving to Alaska and affiliating themselves with a church affiliated with Olson’s Alaska Militia Organization.

Involving AWs mother in any size shape or form. It appears she has had a very hard life and has no electricity, wood heat yet cares for her own very elderly mother.

Being so arrogant to not consider the gargantuan impact on the children left behind, the scores of other relatives and friends.

There’s the dollar cost of the investigation. The emotional amount paid by us who didn’t live close but who were absolutely shell

A yet unrealized impact on a community,state and nation we won’t understand for decades.

They exposed the absolute underbelly of Appalachia most of us thought had faded away, HILLBILLY JUSTICE. Most of us never would guess that people still have such a careless disregard for life.

What do you think the worst mistakes or the stupidest things the Waggies did or didn’t do?

I was keeping an open mind on who committed the murders, UNTIL the Ws hightailed it to Alaska. All of my attention honed in on them at that point. I was starting to think they were going to get away with it, so I’m so happy they got arrested finally.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

So they would not have went there with the idea of getting free land.

No free land in Alaska since statehood in 1959. I’m fortunate to own one. Purchased.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have something I would like to say.

Every time someone on this forum tries to discuss what led up to these murders and what the causes or motives might have been there are those on here that yell "victim bashing". As a result no one can discuss any thing about what may have occurred between the R's and W's prior to the murders. Is is seriously hampering the discussion of this crime on here as some posters do not feel free to post some facts or what their thoughts or opinions are.

I think some posters need to review what "victim bashing" means.

Being a victim of murder does not automatically make you a saint. It does not automatically wipe out everything you may have said or done prior to the murder.

Like it or not the R's had a part in these murders. They interacted with the W's prior to the murders. That does not mean they are bad people. That does not mean they did anything wrong or illegal. But it does not mean they are free of all participation in this. They had words with the W's over child custody. They ended a business relationship with the W's. They ended a friendship with the W's. All of this did not happen without the R's knowledge.

So I propose that we let the mods settle this and refresh in our minds what "victim bashing" means on here and what we as posters should avoid saying about the R's.

JMo

 

[rsd1200]

When I go to Walmart, I always wave to at least one camera. There are a lot of them. Even if they bought on line with a gift cart or something, they would be on camera picking it up or have to give an address to have it shipped....

BBM
O/T I do too!

 

[StarEyes]

1. Alleged Forged Documents
2. Keeping silencer and/or materials to make silencers. (Forensically linked?)
3. News Media Interviews...perhaps what they said publicly differed from LE interviews.

ALL OPINIONS and SPECULATION

You’d think any silencers left would have been trashed. Burned. Taken far, far away. I, too, think that was a huge mistake on their part.

 

[StarEyes]

I have something I would like to say.

Every time someone on this forum tries to discuss what led up to these murders and what the causes or motives might have been there are those on here that yell "victim bashing". As a result no one can discuss any thing about what may have occurred between the R's and W's prior to the murders. Is is seriously hampering the discussion of this crime on here as some posters do not feel free to post some facts or what their thoughts or opinions are.

I think some posters need to review what "victim bashing" means.

Being a victim of murder does not automatically make you a saint. It does not automatically wipe out everything you may have said or done prior to the murder.

Like it or not the R's had a part in these murders. They interacted with the W's prior to the murders. That does not mean they are bad people. That does not mean they did anything wrong or illegal. But it does not mean they are free of all participation in this. They had words with the W's over child custody. They ended a business relationship with the W's. They ended a friendship with the W's. All of this did not happen without the R's knowledge.

So I propose that we let the mods settle this and refresh in our minds what "victim bashing" means on here and what we as posters should avoid saying about the R's.

JMo

 

[Dudly]

That’s a serious accusation. No I have never been affiliated with any militia. In fact I can say the groups are so secretive and radical that they terrify me.

Although I worked in the public sector, and part of my job was to be aware of these and many more groups, I avoided contact with them. The compound is about 20 +- land miles from Kenai almost straight north. I believe the rental home and church were in MUCH closer proximity.

It’s easy to avoid groups a person does not wish to be affiliated with.

Informative reading:

Militia movement resurfaces across nation

Benefit or Burden? Alaska Militias Prep for Inevitable Challenges, Worst Case Scenarios


https://www.commerce.alaska.gov/web/Portals/4/pub/8_28_17 Karen McGahan comment.pdf

This article clearly states the Waggies attended the conservative Baptist Church. This is over 100 miles from Nikiski, but the first article explains Mr. Olson, is a pastor in the Baptist faith.

The link does not even mention the Wagners or a Baptist Church.
You say that was a serious accusation but you said the same thing about the Ws in Alaska being affiliated with a preacher affiliated with a militia.
So, because Olson is a Baptist preacher and, the Wagners attended a Baptist church, a church 100 miles from where they were living, they became affiliated with a militia?

 

[rsd1200]

I have something I would like to say.

Every time someone on this forum tries to discuss what led up to these murders and what the causes or motives might have been there are those on here that yell "victim bashing". As a result no one can discuss any thing about what may have occurred between the R's and W's prior to the murders. Is is seriously hampering the discussion of this crime on here as some posters do not feel free to post some facts or what their thoughts or opinions are.

I think some posters need to review what "victim bashing" means.

Being a victim of murder does not automatically make you a saint. It does not automatically wipe out everything you may have said or done prior to the murder.

Like it or not the R's had a part in these murders. They interacted with the W's prior to the murders. That does not mean they are bad people. That does not mean they did anything wrong or illegal. But it does not mean they are free of all participation in this. They had words with the W's over child custody. They ended a business relationship with the W's. They ended a friendship with the W's. All of this did not happen without the R's knowledge.

So I propose that we let the mods settle this and refresh in our minds what "victim bashing" means on here and what we as posters should avoid saying about the R's.

JMo

I don't think you were victim bashing, Raisin, I just don't see this as Hillbilly Justice. What I've usually seen as Hillbilly Justice is a death, either committed, or perceived to have been committed, by another, and the decead's family member will seek justification for that death.

I do believe that there were tensions brewing, between the two families over a variety of things, for several years, and it appears, that the Ws became infuriated with (grew to hate) the Rs/HHG, and murdered them.

In looking back through all of this, neither family, were as poor as Job's turkey. If we look at it objectively, the Rs were living the life they wanted, and the W4s were living pretty well too. The W4s were maintaining and working, and living off of, a small, working, farm. AW seems to be the only family member in both families, to have attained a college education (at least she stated as much on her FB and she probably went into AF to assist w/her education). Both families had all the adult toys they wanted, went on trips, built derby cars, their kids had nice vehicles, nice clothing. Folks have made fun of the Ws little home but it's what they wanted, same as the Rs liked their trailers. They both had things going pretty good, visitation was working out pretty good, but there's always some issues when people split, but it seemed to work fairly well. That "undercurrent of drugs" is what keeps bothering me. I believe it will play a role in what ultimately led to this, if only that it was the precursor to the families ending friendships and/or business ties, which then lead to a big downhill slide.

 

[scapa]

The link does not even mention the Wagners or a Baptist Church.
You say that was a serious accusation but you said the same thing about the Ws in Alaska being affiliated with a preacher affiliated with a militia.
So, because Olson is a Baptist preacher and, the Wagners attended a Baptist church, a church 100 miles from where they were living, they became affiliated with a militia?

IIRC, the family friend of the Wagners was Kelly Cinereski, who heads the Resurrection Bay Baptist Church in Seward (nothing else to add, and no dog in this particular race).

 

[rsd1200]

That’s a serious accusation. No I have never been affiliated with any militia. In fact I can say the groups are so secretive and radical that they terrify me.

Although I worked in the public sector, and part of my job was to be aware of these and many more groups, I avoided contact with them. The compound is about 20 +- land miles from Kenai almost straight north. I believe the rental home and church were in MUCH closer proximity.

It’s easy to avoid groups a person does not wish to be affiliated with.

Informative reading:

Militia movement resurfaces across nation

Benefit or Burden? Alaska Militias Prep for Inevitable Challenges, Worst Case Scenarios


https://www.commerce.alaska.gov/web/Portals/4/pub/8_28_17 Karen McGahan comment.pdf

This article clearly states the Waggies attended the conservative Baptist Church. This is over 100 miles from Nikiski, but the first article explains Mr. Olson, is a pastor in the Baptist faith.

BBM
Soooo, it's not so cool when it's levied at you... Am I clear in what you are saying, is that all conservative Baptists are affiliated with Mr. Olson and the militia? Or, are you saying that only those in AK are affiliated with the militia? Or only folks who are conservative Baptists, from Ohio, who relocate to AK? I'm confused, b/c either way, I think this may be news to some of my conservative Baptist friends.

 

[Betty P]

I have something I would like to say.

Every time someone on this forum tries to discuss what led up to these murders and what the causes or motives might have been there are those on here that yell "victim bashing". As a result no one can discuss any thing about what may have occurred between the R's and W's prior to the murders. Is is seriously hampering the discussion of this crime on here as some posters do not feel free to post some facts or what their thoughts or opinions are.

I think some posters need to review what "victim bashing" means.

Being a victim of murder does not automatically make you a saint. It does not automatically wipe out everything you may have said or done prior to the murder.

Like it or not the R's had a part in these murders. They interacted with the W's prior to the murders. That does not mean they are bad people. That does not mean they did anything wrong or illegal. But it does not mean they are free of all participation in this. They had words with the W's over child custody. They ended a business relationship with the W's. They ended a friendship with the W's. All of this did not happen without the R's knowledge.

So I propose that we let the mods settle this and refresh in our minds what "victim bashing" means on here and what we as posters should avoid saying about the R's.

JMo

I agree with you, Raisin. Mods could help us out with this. Maybe it's a matter of semantics for me WRT feuding and other remarks that imply there was something the R's had done to make the W's angry with them. Obviously, the Rhodens contesting the Wagners' claims for full custody of Jake and Hanna's daughter likely triggered the Wagners to plot the murder of their entire family. It's possible there was some other event(s) that triggered the W's prior to the custody fight, but we don't know.

I understand people speculating about other factors that triggered the Wagner's murderous rage. Because the legal process is underway to try the Wagners for the murders, some of us think it's important to avoid attempts to paint the Rhodens in a negative light, or carelessly causing their own deaths.

I'm sure many of us have followed trials here at WS in which defenders of murderers attempt to impugn the reputations of their victims in hopes of swaying the news media, potential jurors, etc. I'm certain you're not doing that. Maybe we can find a way for well-intentioned people to speculate about what Rhodens might have done to trigger their murders without encouraging those who seek to influence public opinion in favor of the killers. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

 

[Dudly]

BBM

There was no feud
We don't know whether there was a "feud" or not. We have no idea what lead up to these murders and won't have until the trials, if there is any.

I don't think anyone believes the R's are responsible or that they did anything bad to bring this on themselves. But there were things in which the R's and W's disagreed about. The "wrongs" that the W's felt the R's did to them could have been simply some words exchanged, or they could have even been imagined slights. Who knows? But I do think the W's had the Anse Hatfield "wipe them all out"mentality and did want to avenge themselves for any "injustices" the R's may have did to them, real or imaginary. No one said the W's were sane rational people.

It's kind of like two people trying to park a car in the same space. Words are exchanged and one of them pulls out a gun and kills the other one. The victim didn't really "do" anything but the killer perceives it as a "slight".

In today's world everyone who gets into an argument with someone else runs the risk of that person pulling out a gun or knife. You never know what crazies are out there. It's not that the victim did anything "wrong" it's that the killer has some serious anger issues. But very few people are "random" victims. Most people are targeted by someone they interacted with.

Such is the case with the R's. They interacted with the W's on several different levels. They were close friends. They were business partners. Jake and Hanna were in a relationship. Who knows what was said or done that was perceived as a "wrong" by the W's. So yes it could be seen as the W's getting "justice" for perceived "wrongs" did to them by the R's. No one said the "wrongs" were real or bad.

JMO

In the rumor department, unconfirmed to my knowledge, there were TWO physical confrontations between CRsr and GWIII in the weeks prior to the murders. Supposedly both with CRsr the victor. If that were to be true, it would definitely jack up the hatred and revenge aspect. With no proof they happened or what they were about, it has to be considered rumor only....

 

[Betty P]

WCPO link to live coverage of Angela Wagner's pre-trial hearing. Should be starting soon. Camera is on, but AW is not in the courtroom yet.

Pike Co. massacre suspect in court for pretrial hearing

Prosecutors just went through the door behind the bench, so assume the attorneys are having a conference.

 

[Lilttledoggie]

Betty P. Did they stop the video? I went to the link but nothing is playing

 

[rsd1200]

Betty P. Did they stop the video? I went to the link but nothing is playing

try this one
WATCH LIVE: Mother charged in Rhoden family execution-style murders in court

 

[Dudly]

try this one
WATCH LIVE: Mother charged in Rhoden family execution-style murders in court

This link is a black screen and the other is a closed door...lol