OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

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  • #721
It was Jake if you look at the reflection off the glass that he snapped the picture of Hanna and the kids you can also see a necklace like the boondocks saints around his neck.

BBM
They were really into that movie!!!! I think the poster who said they dyed their hair black to more closely resemble the characters in the movie is correct. They were really into role playing. We already suspect that George was probably into a bit of "role playing" with his ex. So why not take on the identity of a couple of Irish vigilantes?

JMo
 
  • #722
The grannies have the right to have speedy trials and Fred's Attorney James Owen told the Court that the defense wants a trial date set as soon as possible. Would have to check if Rita also wants a speedy trial.

The other 4 have waived their right to a speedy trial which is normal in cases that are this complicated and have such massive amounts of discovery evidence to go through.

Fredericka Wagner's attorney argues for full transcript of her grand jury testimony
Maybe not enough coffee this morning, but I didn't remember seeing "this man" sitting next to FW. BIG EDIT: Definately, lack of coffee and contact lenses...this man was sitting at table. I didn't notice him before, sorry. But since I got your attention:D, can anyone explain how & why & when a defendant pays for their own monitoring....if they haven't been convicted of anything, yet?
upload_2019-1-27_8-53-23.png
 
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  • #723
  • #724
I've always wondered if that was the case and her examination at the hospital is relevant. We need to fill in that part of the timeline.

Can someone tell me when Jake went to Hanna's to assemble the crib?
Anyone know the hospital where HMR gave birth to Kylie?

Relevant section of current timeline:

Pike County Murders: Father says it’s like ‘tearing the scabs off us’

I think photos of SW at hospital might be a media typo/mistake.

Hospital- haven't seen that
Crib- haven't seen that anywhere other than forums
You might add April 15 to the time line as the date W's allege HR dropped of Sophia at the W home.
 
  • #725
Just to clarify, George IV will roll on the others? Do you think the prosecutors will accept a plea from any of them? I wonder if the defense teams are waiting for all the evidence to advise their clients. MOO, I agree George IV has the most to gain by deserting his family and taking a plea if he can.
I think they will accept a plea for one of them in exchange for information about Fred's involvement. If you go back to the videos of them all in court, Fred seems to be the one that the prosecutors are the harshest on and the one they seem to have the most contempt for. They have objected to everything she has asked for. I believe that is because they know she was part of the planning before the murders. They just can't prove it without one of the 4 rolling.

JMO
 
  • #726
BBM
They were really into that movie!!!! I think the poster who said they dyed their hair black to more closely resemble the characters in the movie is correct. They were really into role playing. We already suspect that George was probably into a bit of "role playing" with his ex. So why not take on the identity of a couple of Irish vigilantes?

JMo
RAISIN Again, you have highlighted more interesting aspects of this case! I love reading your posts. I also noticed the brothers have both opted to dress in black shirts, for their courtroom appearances. The "bro"characters from the movie always dressed in black, too. Incredible coincidences, huh? (Oh well, basic black and a string of pearls is always in fashion.)
***
The Menendez brothers decided to go with pastel sweaters to "soften" their look on their 2nd trial.
 
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  • #727
An example how a jury can get tainted:

By Nancy Bowman DDN
Contributing Writer
TROY – A rare glimpse inside jury deliberations unfolded Friday in a Miami County courtroom where a judge heard testimony on a complaint that the jury foreman in a 2014 murder trial told others in deliberations that he had never seen the accused in the church that both men said they attended.
The evidentiary hearing on the claim of juror misconduct in the murder trial of Patrick McGail of Troy was ordered in November by Judge Walter Rice in United States District Court in Dayton. McGail was one of three young men convicted in the 2013 shooting death of Nathan Wintrow.
If the claims are found to have basis, a new trial could be ordered.
Lawyers for McGail, who is serving 24 years to life for murder, aggravated robbery and aggravated burglary, claimed in the federal court action he was deprived of his constitutional rights to an impartial jury and to confront evidence against him when the juror allegedly commented about not seeing McGail or his family in church. McGail in his testimony talked about his family and their church activities.
“My decision was influenced to vote ‘guilty’ when the jury foreman … told the jury that he goes to St. Patrick’s church the same church that McGail testified going to and that he had never seen Patrick or his family at that church, so McGail must be lying,” juror Kylie Spiers-Kautz wrote in the affidavit, according to the federal court’s ruling. “This information influenced me to not believe Patrick’s testimony.”
Rice said the evidentiary hearing should look at what the jury foreperson said about McGail and/or his family’s church involvement and its impact on the jury. Rice said a hearing had to be held within 90 days and asked to be notified of the hearing results.
Common Pleas Judge Stacy Wall held the evidentiary hearing on the limited issue of the alleged statement . She, prosecutors and lawyers for McGail heard testimony from 11 of the 12 jurors. A recorded telephone discussion about the deliberations between Jim Taylor, a prosecutor’s investigator, and the 12th juror, who was in Florida, was included in evidence Wall will consider. She will file a decision later.
Westgerdes testified that he did comment on McGail and church. “I just made a one-time statement, he hadn’t been in church lately.” He further said that those jurors who discussed his comment “all agreed what happened a long time ago didn’t pertain to when this happened,” Westgerdes said. Trial testimony dealt with McGail’s church activity when he was younger.Spiers-Kautz and foreman David Westgerdes testified extensively about what was and was not said and the tone of deliberations.
Spiers-Kautz said Westgerdes wouldn’t ask questions she had to Judge Christopher Gee and ignored her. Westgerdes said the church attendance statement “just kept ringing in my head.” She said later, though, that during the polling of each juror on their verdict that she wanted to say, “not guilty” but didn’t have the courage.
Prosecutor Tony Kendell questioned Spiers-Kautz about the affidavit she said was drawn up at the office of McGail’s then defense lawyer Christopher Bucio. Kendell questioned her about her participation in a post-trial rally at the courthouse alleging injustice and phone and text records showing she had 14 telephone conversations with Bucio and at least 179 text messages in the weeks following the trial and the discussion of the affidavit.
The other nine jurors were asked if they followed the trial judge’s instructions to consider only evidence heard in the courtroom and whether they heard the foreman’s comment about the church attendance. Several said they didn’t hear any such comment while the others who did said it didn’t influence their decision to convict.
Those jurors also said they didn’t witness any bullying in the jury room nor did they remember the foreman not sending questions raised by jurors to the judge for answers.
Defense lawyer Eric Eckes asked jurors if their recollection of deliberations had faded with the passing of more than four years. He and Kendell questioned differences in earlier statements and testimony of both Westgerdes and Spiers-Kautz.
The affidavit claiming juror misconduct was filed as part of motions with the local court after the trial and was included in decisions by both the local court and the 2nd District Court of Appeals to uphold the conviction.
Troy police said Wintrow died after being shot in October 2013 in his home on Canal Street in Troy. Also convicted in the death were Brandon Terrel, who was sentenced to 14 years, and Jason Sowers, who shot Wintrow and was sentenced to 18 years to life. They testified against McGail.

This crime happened literally right behind where i lived at the time. We heard the gunshot.
This is more of a case of smear tactics from the defendants family and the now criminally charges defense attorney than a tainted jury. The jurors were all polled after the hearings and she said nothing about her alligations at that time. It wasn't until she was contacted by the defense attorney that she had issues.

This is all JMO
 
  • #728
Didn't the discovery have something about photos of SW at the hospital or was that an article in MSM? I seem to remember something about that but cannot recall the exact place I read it.
JMO
23 photos of Ruger in the Hospital on April 22, 2016 were turned over to Jake's attorneys as part of a massive discovery evidence drop.

This article mentions the 23 photos for Ruger and lists much more evidence that has been turned over.
Jake Wagner appears in Pike County court for first pretrial in Rhoden family murder case


1,475 photos and over 2,000 reports total so far! Sophia did not need to be taken to the Hospital, she was not at the crime scenes. Kylie and Brently also were checked out in the Hospital because they were discovered at the crime scenes.

I haven't found any mention of any photos of Kylie or Brently or Sophia being turned over to the defense as evidence. It's still early though, and photos of them could be turned over if the prosecution wants to use them in trial for some reason.
Ruger was completely covered in blood so I'm sure that's one reason the prosecution is going to use his photos as evidence at trial, if Judge Deering allows it.
 
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  • #729
RAISIN Again, you have highlighted more interesting aspects of this case! I love reading your posts. I also noticed the brothers have both opted to dress in black shirts, for their courtroom appearances. The "bro"characters always dressed in black, too. Incredible coincidences, huh? (Oh well, basic black and a string of pearls is always in fashion.)
Ha!!! You are right. Basic black is always in fashion. Given what we suspect about George's role playing we might even see him in the LBD w/ pearls in the future. LOL.

It does seem the W's have tried to live the characters in that movie. Maybe that is why both girls left. Who knows?

JMO
 
  • #730
I think photos of SW at hospital might be a media typo/mistake.

Hospital- haven't seen that
Crib- haven't seen that anywhere other than forums
You might add April 15 to the time line as the date W's allege HR dropped of Sophia at the W home.

Thanks, I'll try to find the link for the April 15 date given by the W's for when HR dropped off Sophia. I'm specifying that info in the timeline - events that the W's allege certain things happened. JMO, as the hearings and trials move forward, I think a lot of that info will be proven false, so it seems prudent to note which facts in the timeline were provided by W's.
 
  • #731
Thanks. Ok, I don’t doubt your experiences. Not trying to start an argument.

I’ve used Notarys often in Ohio, but always at a bank. They have always kept a log. Maybe banks are more stringent.
Did you have to report the fees?

In reading all the State of Ohio info, FAQ’s it is confusing and unclear.
Here is my reason for the post. Again, I’m not trying to start an argument- It does appear as if the journal may NOT be mandatory.
Some type of record keeping is alluded to.

“Every Ohio notary needs a notary record book to record every notarial act he or she performs.
( A notary record book is also referred to as a “journal of notarial acts” or a “notary journal.”)
The entries you record in the record book will be used as evidence if a notarial act you performed is ever questioned in a court of law.
Notary record books also build customer confidence and discourage fraudulent transactions.
This useful and economical Ohio notary record book accommodates 350 entries and includes step-by-step instructions for recording notarial acts. The book is chronologically numbered so that it will be easy to detect if a record is tampered with. This journal meets or exceeds Ohio state requirements for proper notarial record keeping

I was a notary in Virginia and always kept a log of my notarizations. Fees are regulated by the state and cannot exceed a certain amount. It was $5.00 per signature when I was licensed. You didn't have to charge a fee but if you did, it couldn't exceed the state maximums.
 
  • #732
I am not sure if we have posted this letter to the editor on here before but I always thought Angela wrote it and put a fake name to it.

LETTER: Rhoden children not in danger; sheriff is wrong

JMO

That's an odd letter. Usually established newspapers call and talk to the sender before publishing a letter. Just a verification and consent thing. It seems odd some person in Indiana would know so much about the care the kids were getting and would be so concerned they would write an LTTE to a newspaper in another state. Agree, someone in the W family was probably behind this, but how did they verify sender info to the newspaper? Maybe a friend or someone who belonged to their church?
 
  • #733
  • #734
Thanks, I'll try to find the link for the April 15 date given by the W's for when HR dropped off Sophia. I'm specifying that info in the timeline - events that the W's allege certain things happened. JMO, as the hearings and trials move forward, I think a lot of that info will be proven false, so it seems prudent to note which facts in the timeline were provided by W's.

That makes sense. You may also consider adding the below since it is a direct interaction with one of the victims on the very day.

April 21- Kendra and boyfriend followed HR for a sleepover but U turned before making it to UHR.

Kendra Rhoden: I could have been the ninth victim in Pike Co. family massacre
 
  • #735
Maybe not enough coffee this morning, but I didn't remember seeing "this man" sitting next to FW. BIG EDIT: Definately, lack of coffee and contact lenses...this man was sitting at table. I didn't notice him before, sorry. But since I got your attention:D, can anyone explain how & why & when a defendant pays for their own monitoring....if they haven't been convicted of anything, yet?
View attachment 166113
This man is Fred's Attorney. The only monitoring being done on Fred is she has to wear an electronic ankle monitor and comply with all the conditions associated with her house arrest and several bail conditions.
But everyone on bail even without house arrest still has to follow a list of conditions. House arrest just makes it more complicated and greatly restricts your movements.

Yes there is often a fee involved when wearing an electronic tether.
The Pike County Courthouse Clerk's Office should list the fees for electronic tether monitoring.
 
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  • #736
Sophie didn't go to the hospital on April 22nd, just the three who were at the crime scenes. I only know of Ruger's photos being a part of the discovery evidence.
Discovery evidence of Kylie and Brently's photos at the hospital could come out later, if the prosecution plans to use them.

....My 2 Cents....Maybe I missed something here.
Do we know it is RR's picture in the discovery pictures? I've thought maybe the photos had something to do with urgency leading to the forged papers, IMO, unless we know when they were taken.
 
  • #737
That's an odd letter. Usually established newspapers call and talk to the sender before publishing a letter. Just a verification and consent thing. It seems odd some person in Indiana would know so much about the care the kids were getting and would be so concerned they would write an LTTE to a newspaper in another state. Agree, someone in the W family was probably behind this, but how did they verify sender info to the newspaper? Maybe a friend or someone who belonged to their church?

There is a Brandon Harris in Boonville, Indiana: Letter: What would Jesus do?; seems to like to write letters—MOO:
Brandon Harris - KeyWiki
 
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  • #738
23 photos of Ruger in the Hospital on April 22, 2016 were turned over to Jake's attorneys as part of a massive discovery evidence drop.

This article mentions the 23 photos for Ruger and lists much more evidence that has been turned over.
Jake Wagner appears in Pike County court for first pretrial in Rhoden family murder case


1,475 photos and over 2,000 reports total so far! Sophia did not need to be taken to the Hospital, she was not at the crime scenes. Kylie and Brently also were checked out in the Hospital because they were discovered at the crime scenes.

I haven't found any mention of any photos of Kylie or Brently or Sophia being turned over to the defense as evidence. It's still early though, and photos of them could be turned over if the prosecution wants to use them in trial for some reason.
Ruger was completely covered in blood so I'm sure that's one reason the prosecution is going to use his photos as evidence at trial, if Judge Deering allows it.

My opinion only.
I’ve thought a lot about the infant, babies/toddler. The fact that mercifully they were not harmed also. It finally occurs to me that although they were not intentionally harmed, neither were they kept totally safe. I have hardened my opinion, and I don’t think the killers of the adults cared if the children died in the interim, the incalculable period of time between the acutual murders and the children being found.
 
  • #739
They probably knew that the Manley sister (sorry, her name is escaping me) would be around at about 7:00am and that the babies would be unattended for a few hours at most. Maybe they thought the babies would sleep through it, or fall back to sleep, or would otherwise be OK. Not making excuses at all, it's unconscionable. But they may have had good reason to believe it wouldn't be more than a few hours.
 
  • #740
Oh my gosh. Good noticing.

Help y'all, lol.... I still don't see it.... where exactly, and in which pic, is the reflection? Not enough coffee yet, or I just can't see today.... many thanks!!!
 
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