OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

[Tena]

It's going to be very interesting what RN's outcome of her charges will be and most significant how they get to that point. Trial? Plea? I really hope she goes first because the evidence of the forged documents would come to light. Whatever happens with her case isn't going to help the W4's at all. JMO

 

[Ann99]

IMO the only way the W's could use the custody papers would be to support their claim that SW wanted JW to have custody when HMR was dead.

I don't believe what the W's told the Enquirer regarding anything especially child custody.

It looks to me like the State of Ohio has an official process and specific forms (approved by the Ohio Supreme Court) for child custody.

LibGuides: Ohio Child Custody, Support and Visitation Law: Establishing Custody and Parenting Time

jmo

Thanks to all for the discussion on Forged Documents.
I guess there is no official or factual knowledge of exactly what the documents may have said, or if they were signed by any of the parties involved. I am thinking now tha the Forged Document was a Court Order.
This link is great. I’m reading these 2 areas over and over.
Jake and HR were never married, right?

• Unmarried Mothers Have Legal Custody
  from Community Legal Aid.
• Unmarried Parents Custody and Visitation in Ohio
  From Columbus attorney Virginia Cornwell.
  
  My opinion and speculation:
  I can imagine Wagners creating documents to look like a Court Order to give Jake full custody of S. - Sole residential parent of S.
  Wagners could have been familiar with this procedure after going through dissolution of George 4 marriage/custody of B.
  Court records involving minors are sealed, so Wagners may have mistakenly thought that no one could ever check the authenticity of Document/Fake Court Order because they can’t seen.
  
  From the link:
  “FACT: In Ohio, when a child is born to an unmarried woman, she has sole custody of the child at birth, at least until the father has a court order giving him his father’s rights. Ohio Revised Code 3109.042 says that an unmarried female who gives birth to a child is the sole residential parent and legal custodian of the child until a court of competent jurisdiction issues an order designating another person as the residential parent and legal custodian.
  
  The idea that single mothers in Ohio always KEEP sole custody is FICTION. Once a father goes to court, if he wants shared parenting (sometimes referred to as joint custody or shared custody), except in extraordinary circumstances, he can usually get it.
  If the mother is unable to properly parent or unwilling to share the child, the father may end up being the sole residential parent and legal custodian of the child and the mother may end up with visitation.”
  
  Maybe this is far fetched, but at the moment it seems possible because everything about the case is so bizarre.
  

 

[Loomis124]

Warrant: Investigators put GPS tracker on truck of Rhoden victim's brother

Snipped a photo or two, above, for response purposes.

In the movie, The Boondock Saints, the boys used a M1911A1s. I think they used a firearm with 1911 grips in one of the films, that had their tatts inscribed on each side, not sure if it was Saints 1 or 2.

Here's a list of the Saints 1, film's firearms.

Boondock Saints, The - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games

Thanks for posting. I know absolutely nothing about guns, but when I saw the evidence listed photos of 1911.22, then googled the movie guns, I wondered if 1911.22s are somewhat the same, just different makes/models. IDK.

I think different guns were used, maybe for personal reasons to either/or the shooters or for the victims, but that's just a guess. Evidence includes "a list of guns," so we will learn in due time.

RSD, I noticed in the link you provided, the MP5A5, "Surefire tactical light dedicated forend and a muzzle break." Wasn't something mentioned about GR having gun residue on his face, and how does a "Maglite" and a "magazine clip" fit into these possible gun scenarios?

Thanks for all opinions.

 

[Ann99]

In my post above, sorry, the first link doesn’t get you there.
Here is a better one.

Unmarried Mothers Have Legal Custody

 

[Loomis124]

I'm sorry, I did not mean to reply to my own post! Long day at work!

 

[Tiff23fr]

I think the custody docs were key in this to the W's. If planning started late 2015 early 2016, at some point they may have realized that by already having shared custody on file the legal burden after the murders related to custody would be easier to get through. Once HR didn't sign those, they may have come up with a plan "B" such as telling grandma Newcomb HR signed these last week can you go ahead and notarize? Either way, I agree completely both grandmothers likely had a pretty good hunch on what happened very soon after the murders.

Note the reference to 3 weeks in Jakes comment. Wasn't the date associated with the docs April 3? It seems that could fall within this "3 weeks prior" time frame. April 3 was a Sunday so it's possible the "fighting" was Fri or Sat.

Jake Wagner and his mother have repeatedly told The Enquirer there was no custody battle for Sophia. Rather they said they were working with a Pike County lawyer in the weeks before the homicides to formalize a verbal shared custody arrangement in which the couple alternated weeks with Sophia.

“They were just putting down on paper what they were already doing," Angela Wagner said in an email to The Enquirer on June 2, 2017.

Relatives of some of the victims describe the relationship differently. They said Jake Wagner and his dad argued and fought with the Rhodens in the weeks just prior to the killings.

Jake Wagner balked at that: “No, I did not go to Hanna’s home three weeks prior to April 22 and kick in the door demanding she sign over custody of Sophia,’’ he wrote in that June 2017 email. “I did not want that. I wanted to continue what we were doing. It was working just fine.”

It does not appear any written custody agreement between Hanna Rhoden and Jake Wagner was ever filed in Pike County juvenile court prior to her death.

Rhoden family massacre: Arrests throw child custody issue back to Ohio courts

I will add I still find it very strange this fighting came out after the laser focus and wasn't brought up before. I mean it seems the family may not have initially been concerned over the W's: Jake went to the CManley wedding and met up to play with FR's son months after the murders.

I'm guessing these could have been info gathering attempts but something is missing or there was no concern with Jake and these fights/custody initially.

"But he has taken her to play with her cousin Brentley at a playground. She was at a family wedding this past weekend. She recently visited her great-grandmother Geneva Rhoden, which put a rare smile on the 73-year-old's matriarch's face."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/07/29/rhoden-case-hate-seeing-my-daughter-cry/87645382/

 

[JustaboyFromMS]

Off topic yall, but its weighing heavily on my heart I'm sorry. My dog has been losing weight like crazy the past mo th and getting progressively worse. I brought him to the vet on Monday and he is diabetic. He wont eat anything now and is throwing up and having seizures. I have to bring him back tomorrow for a checkup. My soul is crushed, he has been my best friend since 2006. Jesus please help us.

 

[Ann99]

Off topic yall, but its weighing heavily on my heart I'm sorry. My dog has been losing weight like crazy the past mo th and getting progressively worse. I brought him to the vet on Monday and he is diabetic. He wont eat anything now and is throwing up and having seizures. I have to bring him back tomorrow for a checkup. My soul is crushed, he has been my best friend since 2006. Jesus please help us.

So sorry to hear this. Our pets are family.
Sending positive thoughts for your best friend.

 

[Loomis124]

I think the custody docs were key in this to the W's. If planning started late 2015 early 2016, at some point they may have realized that by already having shared custody on file the legal burden after the murders related to custody would be easier to get through. Once HR didn't sign those, they may have come up with a plan "B" such as telling grandma Newcomb HR signed these last week can you go ahead and notarize? Either way, I agree completely both grandmothers likely had a pretty good hunch on what happened very soon after the murders.

Note the reference to 3 weeks in Jakes comment. Wasn't the date associated with the docs April 3? It seems that could fall within this "3 weeks prior" time frame. April 3 was a Sunday so it's possible the "fighting" was Fri or Sat.

Jake Wagner and his mother have repeatedly told The Enquirer there was no custody battle for Sophia. Rather they said they were working with a Pike County lawyer in the weeks before the homicides to formalize a verbal shared custody arrangement in which the couple alternated weeks with Sophia.

“They were just putting down on paper what they were already doing," Angela Wagner said in an email to The Enquirer on June 2, 2017.

Relatives of some of the victims describe the relationship differently. They said Jake Wagner and his dad argued and fought with the Rhodens in the weeks just prior to the killings.

Jake Wagner balked at that: “No, I did not go to Hanna’s home three weeks prior to April 22 and kick in the door demanding she sign over custody of Sophia,’’ he wrote in that June 2017 email. “I did not want that. I wanted to continue what we were doing. It was working just fine.”

It does not appear any written custody agreement between Hanna Rhoden and Jake Wagner was ever filed in Pike County juvenile court prior to her death.

Rhoden family massacre: Arrests throw child custody issue back to Ohio courts

 

[Loomis124]

Thankx for confirming that the guns used in the movie are the same type of Colt Revolver possibly used in the murders. (My 2 Cents)

There are 2 Colt 1911 revolvers listed on the evidence sheet. These revolvers are used with magazine clips ( the Wagners bought magazine clips at Walmart.) And these revolvers can be fitted with silencers and can be used as automatic weapons, which again, both of these adaptions to this handgun are part of the indictment.

I have a theory that it will be mentioned at trial that the killers used firearms consistent to firearms used in the movie ' The Boondock Saints.'

Anyone else have "trial theories" ?

Other Theories: At trial the tattoo in evidence will turn out to be Billy's (GW3) scorpion tattoo and the confidential source will turn out to be wiretaps.[/QUOTE[

 

[Cool Cats]

Off topic yall, but its weighing heavily on my heart I'm sorry. My dog has been losing weight like crazy the past mo th and getting progressively worse. I brought him to the vet on Monday and he is diabetic. He wont eat anything now and is throwing up and having seizures. I have to bring him back tomorrow for a checkup. My soul is crushed, he has been my best friend since 2006. Jesus please help us.

No I'm not spouting dribble---some idiot internet know-it-all. My entire family and I have been involved in animal rescue for many years. Dogs and cats who have been abandoned and need foster homes is an area I am very familiar with.

Helping these animals to readjust to family life is a passion with us. (We call it "faukerizing" after the second film "meet the parents" with Robert DeNiro and Ben Stiller--- The Barbra Streisand and Dustin Hoffman characters were constantly trying to "Faukerize"the toddler.) So I speak from a place of just simply wanting the best for you and your pups.

You are the best friend he can have. With your support and a great vet, this can be managed and the diet/treatment incorporated into your daily lives.
It's a shock and quite an adjustment, but you can deal with this as it is a common adjustment just like kidney issues happen with cats.

It will take an adjustment but his diet and medications can and will be worked out and adjusted to what works best!

This happens to many dogs and it is managed and life goes on for the pets and humans!! You will get through this. You and your buddy!

• Help Manage Your Dog’s Diabetes Through Proper Diet

• Canine Urinalysis

• Dog Pancreatitis Symptoms, Causes, and Treatment

• A Healthy Pancreas for Canine Diabetes Prevention

Diabetic Alert Dogs
Managing Diabetes in Dogs
Can dogs get diabetes? Unfortunately yes, dogs can have diabetes just like humans, although only Type 1seems to occur in canines. Diabetic dogs are increasingly common, but the disease is entirely manageable unless left untreated.
By CJ Puotinen and Mary Straus

[Updated January 4, 2019]

MY DOG HAS DIABETES: OVERVIEW
1. Know the symptoms of diabetes in dogs (described below). If your dog shows any signs of canine diabetes, seek veterinary care at once.

2. Work with your vet to determine the right type of diabetic insulin for your individual dog, and the right dosage.

3. Take your diabetic dog for frequent veterinary checkups and check your dog's blood sugar regularly.

4. Learn how to give your dog insulin injections and reward him generously for accepting them.

5. Consistently feed your diabetic dog the same type of food at the same time of day.

6. Report any unusual symptoms or reactions your dog has to medications or diet to your vet.

 

[Ann99]

I have thought about the Canadian border too. RN was charged with GW4 fake docs too and that confuses me more. It's either all about complete control of the children or the border. jmo

My opinion-
Could be both Canadian Border and Complete Control of Children.
The plan to move to Alaska was on the horizon for quite awhile.
Angela had that plan for the family.

I missed this - RN was charged with fake docs pertaining to GW4 ?
Can you elaborate?
Was it dissolution and child custody matter?
Did they get away with it?
Sorry, but I don’t know about this aspect of GW4.
There were strange tales and rumors we can’t repeat here.

I’ll make a guess Wagners tried it a second time, if Fake Docs worked once before.

 

[OhioBlues]

My opinion-
Could be both Canadian Border and Complete Control of Children.
The plan to move to Alaska was on the horizon for quite awhile.
Angela had that plan for the family.

I missed this - RN was charged with fake docs pertaining to GW4 ?
Can you elaborate?
Was it dissolution and child custody matter?
Did they get away with it?
Sorry, but I don’t know about this aspect of GW4.
There were strange tales and rumors we can’t repeat here.

I’ll make a guess Wagners tried it a second time, if Fake Docs worked once before.

The GW4 fake docs that I was referring to are Charge #3 in the indictment.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx

 

[Puzzles8]

Off topic yall, but its weighing heavily on my heart I'm sorry. My dog has been losing weight like crazy the past mo th and getting progressively worse. I brought him to the vet on Monday and he is diabetic. He wont eat anything now and is throwing up and having seizures. I have to bring him back tomorrow for a checkup. My soul is crushed, he has been my best friend since 2006. Jesus please help us.

I'm so sorry to hear your dog is not doing well. Dogs (pets) are really man's best friend, no doubt about it. Hopefully the vet can prescribe a medication or special food tomorrow to help him become more comfortable, start gaining some weight back and alleviating some of his medical problems. I will keep you both in my prayers. God Bless.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Off topic yall, but its weighing heavily on my heart I'm sorry. My dog has been losing weight like crazy the past mo th and getting progressively worse. I brought him to the vet on Monday and he is diabetic. He wont eat anything now and is throwing up and having seizures. I have to bring him back tomorrow for a checkup. My soul is crushed, he has been my best friend since 2006. Jesus please help us.

O/T Have you tried tequila? You have to get the pure kind. Jose Quervo and a couple of others are pure. Tequila will lower blood sugar in a hour and keep it regulated 24 hours if you take it morning and night. 3OZ in the morning and 3 oz before bed. Probably less for a dog though.

One of my clients is a doctor specializing in diabetes and told me he prescribes it for patients. At the very least he said it won't hurt them. He said he has had excellent results with it.

 

[Dudly]

LE doesn't need a phone to subpoena the phone's digital records. Of course it's always better to have the phone but no doubt LE found digital evidence from the Wags phones, and all the phones they took and destroyed.

Why leave behind a burned out VCR? ..and why throw evidence down a well?

Like most amateurs, the Wags thought not leaving evidence at the crime scene would get them off. But it's looking more like it's the before and after that got them arrested.

They also must have went into shock when they saw the AG getting involved and saw how BCI wasn't going away. Then they eventually realized how huge the case really was.

Why burn a VCR? That had to make it look more suspicious. If it would have just been thrown in the trash, I doubt anyone would have thought anything but that it was an old out of date piece of junk that got thrown away.
Down a well, I will never understand, either. That requires searching a 6" area spot where a lake could takes acres of searching...

 

[rsd1200]

Thank you so much for these maps. It helps greatly in orienting the various locations. Were they all living together in 1 trailer? As in, 6 adults and 2 children?
You marked Hillside Nursing Home on the map. Was that where DR worked?

At one point in time, I believe there may have been two trailers there. One single wide and what looked to be a modular home style. They also had the Muddy Mountain Pocket Beagles listed there. I've never seen that HMR had an address listed there, but I think she may have spent a lot of time there. Yes, to Hillside.

 

[rsd1200]

Warrant: Investigators put GPS tracker on truck of Rhoden victim's brother


Thanks for posting. I know absolutely nothing about guns, but when I saw the evidence listed photos of 1911.22, then googled the movie guns, I wondered if 1911.22s are somewhat the same, just different makes/models. IDK.

I think different guns were used, maybe for personal reasons to either/or the shooters or for the victims, but that's just a guess. Evidence includes "a list of guns," so we will learn in due time.

RSD, I noticed in the link you provided, the MP5A5, "Surefire tactical light dedicated forend and a muzzle break." Wasn't something mentioned about GR having gun residue on his face, and how does a "Maglite" and a "magazine clip" fit into these possible gun scenarios?

Thanks for all opinions.

To add the suppressor, you would take the firearm apart, and replace the barrel nut with a replacement piece, you would fit the suppressor onto the replacement piece.

This fella gives a pretty good demo for the avg. firearm/suppressor. He uses a Walther P22.

 

[sunshineray]

Evidence from BBL??? I missed this. Was th from the reporter who spent all day at the courthouse getting that stack of papers?

The reason for having three separate could be because of the dates, but each one lists different evidence also.

COUNT 15: Apr 22, 2016
...Alter, destroy, conceal remove any record, document, or thing, to wit:
PHONES and/or CAMERAS, or other unidentified items belonging to the victims...

COUNT 16: Apr 3 2016
...Make, present, or use any record, document or thing, to wit: custody documents, knowing it to be false and with purpose to mislead a public official who is or may be engaged in such proceeding or investigation, or with purpose to corrupt the outcome of any such proceeding or investigation...

COUNT 17: Jan 1 2016 - May 9 2017 (day they went to Alaska)
...Alter, destroy, conceal, or remove any record, document or thing, to wit:
Silencer, and/or parts of a home security system, and other identified items, with which to impair its value or availability as evidence in couch proceeding or investigation...

Loomis I don't know if this was ever answered for you as I'm just catching up with posts. It took me awhile to find the article, but an Excel sheet mentions BBL.

"The document shows records for March 2016 and April 2016. Listed under those records is "Big Bear Lake (1 excel sheet)."

Here's the article. Again sorry if someone already posted it for you.
Documents: ATF files report on item pulled from well, Wagner family arrested a week later

 

[rsd1200]

Why burn a VCR? That had to make it look more suspicious. If it would have just been thrown in the trash, I doubt anyone would have thought anything but that it was an old out of date piece of junk that got thrown away.
Down a well, I will never understand, either. That requires searching a 6" area spot where a lake could takes acres of searching...

This is why the more that I think about this and the more that comes to light, it all seems more juvenile, than sophisticated. There's something un-sophisticated about their thinking. In the movies, things always work out for the leading men/women. I don't think they factored in real life. It's very odd.