OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#44

[Dudly]

Or did Billy have some crazy idea that CR1 was sitting on a lot of cash they could take? They probably spent a lot of time fantasizing about all the reasons they hated the Rhodens and dreaming up all kinds of horrible criminal activity with piles of hundred dollar bills stashed around. Turns out they killed 8 people for nothing. The W's didn't last a year in AK before going broke. Well, they'll have plenty of time in their prison cells to think about that dumb idea.

With CRsr just buying that house, for DR, they probably thought he had to have plenty of money hid somewhere. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

I believe they did try everything to get him to open the safe. But he didn't. JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

And emotional evidence too.
"There is almost always a lot of behavior present at a homicide crime scene. Many offenders want their crime scenes to look a certain way. They want a specific type of victim. And often there is heavy fantasy involvement in how they kill. Thus, much of their personality is left at a crime scene"
Profiling a Murderer

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Yes! This is what I believed all along @Betty P , that the Wagner 4 ran out of money and returned to Fredericka Wagner (Ohio) for work. We know Billy was working for Fred --- Billy was arrested after taking a horse to a Vet in Kentucky. (Robin Wagner was with her brother Billy at that time.)

Money, in my humble opinion, is why they left Alaska and went back to Fred.

Billy was getting SSI. And was working under the table for mommy. One good thing is when your in jail the check stops.

 

[buttonbaby]

I believe they did try everything to get him to open the safe. But he didn't. JMO

IMO, it sounds like the Ws thought there was a safe, but there wasn't, or if there was, it didn't have much in it. This article talks about CR1 buying cars to sell... the friend of FR and CR2 who used to accompany him on some of these car buying trips, said CR1 would withdraw money from the bank as needed, not take it out of a safe. If there was a safe and the Ws expected it had a a lot of cash in it, they were probably angry as all get out that it contained little more than petty cash:

Why the Rhoden family had so many cars

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I'm thinking that LE said that Billy Wagner was the mastermind for a reason, I do not think LE was only saying this "off the top of their heads".

I think Billy convinced Angie into going along with it. I could be totally wrong and it was Angie's idea, but with Billy pegged as the mastermind, I think HE convinced the others.

George 4 was the most prolific in his demands for retribution against "those who go against them,"
and Jake had tunnel vision about wanting his daughter with him, and Angie wanted access to her 2 grandkids to raise them how she raised her sons, so that leaves GW3 to get them all together on the same page and champion a solution to their problems..........

......... a solution that he was able to convince them would solve all of their problems in one fell swoop.

A solution that would never be discovered by, and never be solved by, Ohio' s finest LE.

.....My 2 Cents..........

That Preacher in Alaska sure didn't know the Wagners family as good as he thought, he let a pack of wolf's into his flock of sheep, JMO

 

[Deleted member 237253]

I’m curious to know why the W’s thought they could get away with it. On the surface they look like normal human beings, they must have knew surely they’d get caught.

They can’t even get away with stolen property or stealing some boots from Rocky Mountain store. Their criminal record should show them they can’t get by with much of anything, let alone killing 8 innocent lives.

Illusions of grandeur.

 

[Loomis124]

The Ws dont have a snowball's chance in Hel...in my opinion...of getting away with these proven, premeditated and low-lifed conspired murders of 8 lives. They just wont! Not every day does a murder show up? Kiddos are, I pray with the best fanimli

 

[Deleted member 239597]

I'm thinking that LE said that Billy Wagner was the mastermind for a reason, I do not think LE was only saying this "off the top of their heads".


I think Billy convinced Angie into going along with it. I could be totally wrong and it was Angie's idea, but with Billy pegged as the mastermind, I think HE convinced the others.

George 4 was the most prolific in his demands for retribution against "those who go against them,"
and Jake had tunnel vision about wanting his daughter with him, and Angie wanted access to her 2 grandkids to raise them how she raised her sons, so that leaves GW3 to get them all together on the same page and champion a solution to their problems..........

......... a solution that he was able to convince them would solve all of their problems in one fell swoop.

A solution that would never be discovered by, and never be solved by, Ohio' s finest LE.

.....My 2 Cents..........

MOO

This is in reply to ALL the threads about the husband of AW....I'm having trouble keeping up with all the initials and who is who....I'm taking you are all meaning the Father in this case is the mastermind. The question about AW going along with it..... OK I have read that AW was controlling and manipulative in threads on other social media. Even IF this is the case that doesn't mean that she cannot be abused or in fear of her own life too if life with her husband is filled with abuse. It seems to me, and this is my opinion only that there is a lot of control and manipulation going all through this case. This is termed as abuse. One never, I REPEAT NEVER knows to what extent a person would go when they are being abused. (In no way am I excusing these Murders; and in no way am I saying the perps were the victims: this is two different issues. For all intense purposes the forum is focused on the murders).

Take those murders out of the equation and I see abuse all over the place whether it's mental, physical, emotional, monetary, and sexual this is on BOTH sides of the spectrum with the defendants as well as the victims (sadly...and it doesn't mean they should have been murdered). These people are NOT in their right heads. There is also another form of abuse at play here: SUBSTANCE ABUSE. Then still another form of abuse is abusing yourself. In the case of the Grandmother Wagner...there is abuse of social status. Enough said there, THAT is why they felt they could get away with it hands down. MOO, MOO, and MOO. A spoiled child often times is not always a 'good' child. Do you think that it wasn't in the father's mind that somehow his mother could bail him out if he did get in trouble?

NOW to compare my own experience is that I am a survivor of abuse. Enough said here, this thread is not about ME and my own abuse (there is a petrification of fear- the fear is NOT normal even though I do not drink or use substances)....too with me I DO have experience with my father trying to murder my mother in front of both my brother and me with all the factors of said abuse all through their marriage leading up to the moment where my father tried to take my mothers life without success. I can relate to the three children "left behind" there. It is what it is.

So there is NO TELLING what we would do with that petrification of fear lingering over our heads. MOO

Now, something interesting was said about the 'profile' of a murderer and how a person wants the scene to look. (BTW no amount of planning can get rid of a boot print in blood at the scene....the infant was covered in blood...and the 911 call said there was a lot of blood at the scene). My question is the money that was thrown on the body at one of the crime scenes and how that comes into play. I think it was Franky. Is there an ulterior motive...or an additional motive we are not looking at, in addition to the child custody case? I wonder what the meaning behind that was.

MOO instead of throwing our thoughts from our own experiences into the case, maybe we need to let the case speak. The victims need the voice based on what is there. There indeed was child custody, fighting, drugs, maybe even jealousy of bf/gf relationship and a lover scorned. It sounds to me that the victims have a long standing history with this other family that frankly right at this time we are not privy to. MOO

Said in respect and great love for all involved. I don't ever want to be 'tested' on any of this. Having that experience as a child has taught me much about things like this alone. We are a product of what our experiences are. I, in no way, am saying that the deceased were abusive here btw other than the chemical abuse. Social media pages shows much love and respect for life in posts they made. MOO

 

[Loomis124]

Deleted

 

[Loomis124]

Deleted

 

[rsd1200]

Yes! This is what I believed all along @Betty P , that the Wagner 4 ran out of money and returned to Fredericka Wagner (Ohio) for work. We know Billy was working for Fred --- Billy was arrested after taking a horse to a Vet in Kentucky. (Robin Wagner was with her brother Billy at that time.)

Money, in my humble opinion, is why they left Alaska and went back to Fred.

bbm
Agree. They were living in AW's, father's, home, iirc, when the four got arrested.

 

[Betty P]

IMO, it sounds like the Ws thought there was a safe, but there wasn't, or if there was, it didn't have much in it. This article talks about CR1 buying cars to sell... the friend of FR and CR2 who used to accompany him on some of these car buying trips, said CR1 would withdraw money from the bank as needed, not take it out of a safe. If there was a safe and the Ws expected it had a a lot of cash in it, they were probably angry as all get out that it contained little more than petty cash:

Why the Rhoden family had so many cars

Yes, it sounds like CR1 used the bank for his money, not the safe. As most homeowners know, having just purchased the home for DR, CR1 wouldn't have a lot of money in the bank.

Also seems doubtful CR1 would be willing to die instead of opening any safe he might have had in his trailer. What would be the point of that? CR1 was a pretty smart guy, the Wagners not so much.

 

[Dudly]

Yes, it sounds like CR1 used the bank for his money, not the safe. As most homeowners know, having just purchased the home for DR, CR1 wouldn't have a lot of money in the bank.

Also seems doubtful CR1 would be willing to die instead of opening any safe he might have had in his trailer. What would be the point of that? CR1 was a pretty smart guy, the Wagners not so much.

Well, unless he knew he'd get killed anyway.. Then there isn't much use in opening the safe...

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, it sounds like CR1 used the bank for his money, not the safe. As most homeowners know, having just purchased the home for DR, CR1 wouldn't have a lot of money in the bank.

Also seems doubtful CR1 would be willing to die instead of opening any safe he might have had in his trailer. What would be the point of that? CR1 was a pretty smart guy, the Wagners not so much.

You can't shoot someone then tell them to open a safe. If Chris was shot through a door and had a defensive right forearm wound, as has been stated, the killers were probably shooting him while he was trying to get away and he ran back to the bedroom, closing the door, where he died.

Gary was probably shot and killed in the living room and dragged back to the bedroom and dumped on top of Chris. There were drag marks and Gary was laying over Chris's legs.

I'm not seeing signs any safes were involved except the huge one they hauled out of there from a building on the property.....My 2 Cents......

 

[Betty P]

Well, unless he knew he'd get killed anyway.. Then there isn't much use in opening the safe...

He would have known his other family members were also at risk of being killed. Wags would probably have threatened to kill the others, too. CR1 would have known that risk and would not have taken it. What did he have to hide? Probably not much of anything.

To those who discuss the "theory" that Pike Co SD payed a company to move the safe, did anyone realize that "theory" doesn't include the cost of having a professional company open the safe as well?

JMO, if there was a safe in CR1's trailer, he would have opened it for them. For now, it's a paradox, like Schrodinger's safe.

Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia

All JMO

 

[Betty P]

You can't shoot someone then tell them to open a safe. If Chris was shot through a door and had a defensive right forearm wound, as has been stated, the killers were probably shooting him while he was trying to get away and he ran back to the bedroom, closing the door, where he died.

Gary was probably shot and killed in the living room and dragged back to the bedroom and dumped on top of Chris. There were drag marks and Gary was laying over Chris's legs.

I'm not seeing signs any safes were involved except the huge one they hauled out of there from a building on the property.....My 2 Cents......

Do you have a link for that info about one being hauled out of a building? Not saying I doubt it, but...

When it comes to the safe theory, I've kind of always questioned it being in CR1's trailer. I doubt the floors in an older trailer are strong enough to handle the weight of a large safe. Possible, but how likely? JMO.

Older model safes, even large ones, aren't difficult to find or purchase as along as you have a way to transport it. Attend auctions or visit antique stores and you'll frequently see them, usually at reasonable cost because they are so hard to move.

 

[Cool Cats]

Do you have a link for that info about one being hauled out of a building? Not saying I doubt it, but...

When it comes to the safe theory, I've kind of always questioned it being in CR1's trailer. I doubt the floors in an older trailer are strong enough to handle the weight of a large safe. Possible, but how likely? JMO.

Older model safes, even large ones, aren't difficult to find or purchase as along as you have a way to transport it. Attend auctions or visit antique stores and you'll frequently see them, usually at reasonable cost because they are so hard to move.

It's been a long time but I would be happy to try to find the safe information.

 

[Betty P]

It's been a long time but I would be happy to find the safe information. Will post and link what I find.

Thanks! I've seen a receipt online purported to cover the expense of moving a safe from the property, but have no way of knowing if it was authentic. I didn't see anything about a safe being hauled out of a particular building on the property or anything about the size of the safe.

Either way, we'll find out eventually.

 

[Puzzles8]

IMO, it sounds like the Ws thought there was a safe, but there wasn't, or if there was, it didn't have much in it. This article talks about CR1 buying cars to sell... the friend of FR and CR2 who used to accompany him on some of these car buying trips, said CR1 would withdraw money from the bank as needed, not take it out of a safe. If there was a safe and the Ws expected it had a a lot of cash in it, they were probably angry as all get out that it contained little more than petty cash:

Why the Rhoden family had so many cars

There was a safe on UHR. Somewhere in Thread 32 is a photo of the invoice for securing a safe on UHR for LE. However the invoice did not state the exact location of the safe, just UHR.
ETA - link to post # 126
OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

Image of invoice:
Safe Invoice

I think CRsr had a business "on the books" - buying, fixing and selling used cars. He needed the safe to store car titles. He also ran his auto transactions through a bank for record keeping support.

He also had another business quite "off the books" - growing MJ & selling for a sizable profit. CBS estimated the MJ operation was worth approx. $500,000. It would be a huge red flag if he tried to run those profits through his bank account. So I'm guessing he kept the cash profits from MJ also in that safe. It was rumored that MJ seedlings were found on his property. That tells me he had probably just sold off the previous crop and the cash was likely in that safe.

Interesting side note - when a vehicle title is transferred, it needs to be notarized. Notary also has to verify the mileage at transfer.
Ohio Title Transfer
MOO