OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#44

[Deleted member 239597]

Are you referencing the article from the chick who made Pike County sound like the scummiest place on earth? Her entire story was a joke and full of lies and insults to the area. JMO

I am not debating it either, all I know is she and her sidekick made up lies to embellish the story.

People like me, from outside the area, can't tell fact from fiction in a lot of the info put out. It may be very obvious to you but not to many of us...

Caylee, I believe, IMHO, if a writer creates lies to embellish a story it makes the whole thing unbelievable. I throw those stories out. No truth is found in them. Yes, this means I throw out what most of the media writes and reports for this reason; I'm a writer.

In reference to the first quote:
That lady is nuts. Pike County looks beautiful like it's God's country. Who cares if people live in mobile homes and have cars in their yards. I mean that. I don't care about the pot growing: none of it. It is beautiful there. It actually looks like a cute little country town with friendly people. Anyone who looks at photos of Pike County and then reads an article that is made up of distortions of what the town looks like and takes it in a serious manner, well, I don't know.

Caylee for the last quote, I want to say maybe you should ask to be an insider. (Is that what it is called)? Just for the purposes of those who do not know can see it under your name and understand that you have more of a first-hand knowledge about things. Honestly, I've been watching what you say moreso because you do know the area and information first hand.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

I did not like her article and thought it insulting. But she did go over to LM 's home and interview both him and Bobby. She was quoting BJM.

I was COPYING a tiny portion of her article, not debating it.

I enjoyed reading her story. I like her personal writing style. One can enjoy a reading even when it is offensive.

However she is a mostly a fiction writer. I do wonder if she really intended to be accurate.

I don't know what is fiction or reality in her piece. It's a bit like how a screenwriter will make the story when a movie is made out of a case: based on a true story, not necessarily the true story.

That's how I read it.

She did go to Pike County. But did she go to LM? I am not even sure...

 

[Deleted member 239597]

I don't know what is fiction or reality in her piece.

This is why the whole article cannot be used as proof of anything concerning this case.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

This is why the whole article cannot be used as proof of anything concerning this case.

I agree. I will even add that this article has been posted here multiple times and, in at least one occasion, the moderator has removed it for this very reason.

 

[Dudly]

Is there a way for someone to decompose faster even if he wasn't shot first?

The main thing, I believe, would be a warmer temperature. Was the heat on and was he on or near a heater vent or electric heater? I've read that the amount of blood lost or having an infection of any kind can speed up the process.
We don't know how much more he was supposedly decomposed so it could be anything really.

Is there a way for someone to decompose faster even if he wasn't shot first?

Heat and humidity cause it as does significant blood lose from what I have read. Any infections can accelerate it also.

What Are the Four Stages of Human Decomposition?
Human decomposition is a natural process involving the breakdown of tissues after death. While the rate of human decomposition varies due to several factors, including weather, temperature, moisture, pH and oxygen levels, cause of death, and body position, all human bodies follow the same four stages of human decomposition.

Not sure why this posted like it did. Firefox locked up and I had to close it. I thought what I had written was gone but what I wrote added to the post I thought was gone. Oh, well...

 

[Deleted member 239597]

What Are the Four Stages of Human Decomposition?
Human decomposition is a natural process involving the breakdown of tissues after death. While the rate of human decomposition varies due to several factors, including weather, temperature, moisture, pH and oxygen levels, cause of death, and body position, all human bodies follow the same four stages of human decomposition.

I even looked this one up but my question is more along the lines that if they are murdered around the same time, in the same factors mentioned there save for PH and O2levels (only IF those levels are manifest within the constraints of the body in decomposition) how they can know CRsr was one of the first killed based on that data?

I question whether or not (in rate of decomposition):

1. the general health of the individual (with O2 Saturation levels and Ph levels coming into play as well)
2. the number of wounds a person has been inflicted with
3. the age of the individual

All play a role in decomposition as well.

We can assume the environmental factors were almost all identical to one another save for maybe KR who was found a mile(?) away. So where do the experts come up with the fact that CRsr was killed among the first?

This is where a forensic professional would come in handy in this case thread.

 

[Dudly]

I even looked this one up but my question is more along the lines that if they are murdered around the same time, in the same factors mentioned there save for PH and O2levels (only IF those levels are manifest within the constraints of the body in decomposition) how they can know CRsr was one of the first killed based on that data?

I question whether or not (in rate of decomposition):

1. the general health of the individual (with O2 Saturation levels and Ph levels coming into play as well)
2. the number of wounds a person has been inflicted with
3. the age of the individual

All play a role in decomposition as well.

We can assume the environmental factors were almost all identical to one another save for maybe KR who was found a mile(?) away. So where do the experts come up with the fact that CRsr was killed among the first?

This is where a forensic professional would come in handy in this case thread.

I don't think any professional/expert has said CRsr was killed first. I believe EVERYONE took it to mean that with the advanced composition statement. I do believe the Medical Examiners on the scenes may have a very good idea based on ambient temperature and measured body temperature. I believe they use liver temperature for this but could be wrong. They can get a pretty accurate time of death that way. The times of death determined by the Medical Examiners has not been released. That could be very telling on time of events.
For a possible reason, if there was an indoor grow where CRsr was found, the heat and humidity would be higher than DR's house probably. Another possibility was he was shot much earlier, and GR was held hostage till they knew DR was home. Anything and everything is possible from what little has been released... All opinions of course...

 

[Deleted member 239597]

I don't think any professional/expert has said CRsr was killed first. I believe EVERYONE took it to mean that with the advanced composition statement. I do believe the Medical Examiners on the scenes may have a very good idea based on ambient temperature and measured body temperature. I believe they use liver temperature for this but could be wrong. They can get a pretty accurate time of death that way. The times of death determined by the Medical Examiners has not been released. That could be very telling on time of events.
For a possible reason, if there was an indoor grow where CRsr was found, the heat and humidity would be higher than DR's house probably. Another possibility was he was shot much earlier, and GR was held hostage till they knew DR was home. Anything and everything is possible from what little has been released... All opinions of course...

Estimating time of death

This article is an interesting read on how they would estimate time of death using temperature. As a general rule the body will drop 1 degree each hour. However, like you said it depends on the surrounding environment the body is found. Temperature also is affected, however, by other key factors when comparing it to the time of death in other individuals that become deceased around the same time frame. This includes how much clothing a person is wearing, how big one person is compared to another person, the position of the body, whether a body is exposed to air currents, among those are what you have mentioned, and other key factors as well.

The interesting note I found in this article cited a case where two people were killed, one was left in the kitchen on cool linoleum floor and the other was under an electric blanket in bed in the bedroom. The person who was under that electric blanket was in an advanced state of decomposition.

Moving to these threads someone noted that CRsr might have (don't know for sure) had a blanket over him and either FR or KR (?) was over his legs? I have no clue if this is the case. So with the given state IF those two factors were the case that this was so, the body temperature of CRsr, whom for all intense purposes looks like a hefty guy, could have been in a state to where there was a more advanced state of decomposition just due to the fact of the blanket covering him and the dead weight of another, seemingly, large body spread across him.

We shall see what the experts say on this. However, given the small amount of time frame that the R's were murdered, and the factored in conditions to where IF that was the case with CRsr I do not think they can come to a viable conclusion if he indeed was one of the first of the victims. MOO

 

[OhioBlues]

It looks as if FW's lawyer filed a motion to change house arrest terms today.

 

[Betty P]

It looks as if FW's lawyer filed a motion to change house arrest terms today.

I wonder if they reached a decision about letting her go to her church and to the nursing center?

 

[Cool Cats]

• 01/31/2019 SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO MODIFY CONDITIONS OF HOUSE ARREST FILED Attorney: KOENIG, CHARLES A
• Fredericka Wagner Motion

03/12/2019 NOTICE OF SUBMISSION OF PROPOSED ORDER MODIFYING CONDITIONS OF HOUSE ARREST FILED

It looks like her first motion was met with modifications from the prosecution, thus, her attorney's submitted a modified order on 3-12-19.

We will find out for sure at her 3-28-2019 1:30pm pre-trial hearing.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I don't think any professional/expert has said CRsr was killed first. I believe EVERYONE took it to mean that with the advanced composition statement. I do believe the Medical Examiners on the scenes may have a very good idea based on ambient temperature and measured body temperature. I believe they use liver temperature for this but could be wrong. They can get a pretty accurate time of death that way. The times of death determined by the Medical Examiners has not been released. That could be very telling on time of events.
For a possible reason, if there was an indoor grow where CRsr was found, the heat and humidity would be higher than DR's house probably. Another possibility was he was shot much earlier, and GR was held hostage till they knew DR was home. Anything and everything is possible from what little has been released... All opinions of course...

Dudly you have shot everyone theory down on Big Chris being killed first, so why don’t you tell us what you think happen or do you know something we don’t?

 

[Cool Cats]

Dudly you have shot everyone theory down on Big Chris being killed first, so why don’t you tell us what you think happen or do you know something we don’t?

Yes bud, what do you think happened?

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

LE already told GW3's attorney that GW3 is the mastermind. So he did alot more then just act as the driver or lookout in my opinion.

Remember he's the dad who taught his son's how to hunt and use weapons, he's automatically in the leadership position. Just like he took them hunting, he took them into those houses to hunt down defenseless people.

Thought we were talking about GW4 ....

 

[YESorNO]

Pike County massacre suspect's attorney seeks info on DNA evidence used in case

Mar 12, 2019

"WAVERLY, Ohio — Defense attorneys for one of the suspects in the Pike County massacre want to know how DNA evidence was tested in the case.

Attorney Richard Nash Jr. filed a motion Monday seeking information on DNA testing in the state's case against George Wagner IV, who, along with his parents and brother is accused of killing eight members of the Rhoden family in rural Pike County.

As part of the discovery, Nash is seeking the case file, laboratory protocols, evidence chain of custody and durrent disposition, software used for DNA testing, data files, documentation of corrective actions for discrepancies and errors, information on lab personnel and more information.

The defense attorneys have also filed motions this month seeking funds to bring in experts and seeking to have Wagner wear civilian clothes and appear without restraints at all court proceedings. He already wore civilian clothes during a pretrial hearing in January....

Judge Randy Deering has ordered Wagner, like his parents and brother, be held without bond pending trial. Deering also ordered the family members to have no contact with each other.

Wagner's next hearing is scheduled for March 22."

Pike Co. massacre defense attorney wants DNA evidence info

 

[Betty P]

• 01/31/2019 SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO MODIFY CONDITIONS OF HOUSE ARREST FILED Attorney: KOENIG, CHARLES A
• Fredericka Wagner Motion

03/12/2019 NOTICE OF SUBMISSION OF PROPOSED ORDER MODIFYING CONDITIONS OF HOUSE ARREST FILED

It looks like her first motion was met with modifications from the prosecution, thus, her attorney's submitted a modified order on 3-12-19.

We will find out for sure at her 3-28-2019 1:30pm pre-trial hearing.

Yes, I kind of thought that would happen. Prosecutor Canepa seemed firm about questioning the need for FW to go to the nursing home every day, saying her earlier investigation showed FW rarely went there. Sounds like they worked out a compromise. FW's business and livelihood is centered around her farm and animals. She's free to spend all the time she needs there. OTOH, I could understand Rita Newcomb needing to feed her animals back at her own home. If her son is working, its a lot for him to go over there a couple times every day to feed and water them. JMO, RN is much less a flight risk or any other kind of risk.

 

[Betty P]

Pike County massacre suspect's attorney seeks info on DNA evidence used in case

Mar 12, 2019

"WAVERLY, Ohio — Defense attorneys for one of the suspects in the Pike County massacre want to know how DNA evidence was tested in the case.

Attorney Richard Nash Jr. filed a motion Monday seeking information on DNA testing in the state's case against George Wagner IV, who, along with his parents and brother is accused of killing eight members of the Rhoden family in rural Pike County.

As part of the discovery, Nash is seeking the case file, laboratory protocols, evidence chain of custody and durrent disposition, software used for DNA testing, data files, documentation of corrective actions for discrepancies and errors, information on lab personnel and more information.

The defense attorneys have also filed motions this month seeking funds to bring in experts and seeking to have Wagner wear civilian clothes and appear without restraints at all court proceedings. He already wore civilian clothes during a pretrial hearing in January....

Judge Randy Deering has ordered Wagner, like his parents and brother, be held without bond pending trial. Deering also ordered the family members to have no contact with each other.
Wagner's next hearing is scheduled for March 22."

Here's the link someone posted previously (sorry I can't recall who right now) with the standard discovery motions to file in DP cases

OPD > Appellate Services > Death Penalty Department > Motions Manual

The DNA discovery motion is outlined there, very similar wording as GW4's motion. Most interesting is the fact it's been filed on GW4's behalf. I'm sure some of us will be checking regularly to see if it's filed for any of the others.

It may not be relevant but I'm still curious about the different motions that have (and have not) been filed for the various defendants.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Yes bud, what do you think happened?

Hey Cool Cat I’ve been looking at past news reports of the night that the murders took place and I just can’t see the Wagners sneaking in on 4 different homes and shooting these people and without anyone waking up, the Wagners are obesity people except for Jake something not right I don’t think LE is telling what really happened,JMO

 

[Dudly]

Dudly you have shot everyone theory down on Big Chris being killed first, so why don’t you tell us what you think happen or do you know something we don’t?

Why is there theories that he was shot first should be the question. No one that might know or could have determined that has said it was true...

Yes bud, what do you think happened?

How would I know. I wasn't there. I have only given proof as to how the time can be inaccurate and how it can be determined, I have not proven he wasn't shot first... As far as I know LE nor the autopsy reports state he was shot first. They and the shooter would be the only ones that may know for sure...

 

[Dudly]

Hey Cool Cat I’ve been looking at past news reports of the night that the murders took place and I just can’t see the Wagners sneaking in on 4 different homes and shooting these people and without anyone waking up, the Wagners are obesity people except for Jake something not right I don’t think LE is telling what really happened,JMO

So what are you implying? Do you know something we don't know? Do you know that no one woke up?