OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #24

[jk204]

.
I've been chewing on this, combined w/your first post of the thread, this morning. If you've got any further tidbits, I'm all ears. :lookingitup: .

More specifically regarding the Children Services proceedings:

*http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...scoff-pike-county-sheriffs-comments/88507184/

“As the sheriff of this county, I fear if information is released it would put the minor children or their caregivers in grave danger"

*http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/09/01/judge-rhoden-kid-case-remains-closed/89735090/

Pike County Juvenile Court Judge Robert Rosenberger ruled that public access to court hearings and records related to a now five-month girl and 11-month-old boy “could harm the children or their custodians.”

"The Court does not believe that threat of harm has diminished with the passage of time,'' Rosenberg wrote.

See also TR interview about the gag order. No one can tell where are the children.

I would interpret in the following manner his concerns with respect to the scenarios I described:

Scenario A) Having the children

If the children are not going with the right custodians, the custodians could be in danger

Scenario B) Saving the children

If the children are not going to custodians with the right moral standards then the custodians could be in danger.

Or C) in the alternative scenario of a deep rooted and active family feud.

If the children are going with the wrong custodians then custodians are in danger.

In my opinion, any of the other motives discussed, would not justify the court decision: drug trade, revenge for a CR crime, messed with the wrong person, narced....

 

[Canaille]

Hi guys. I have removed some off topic posts about religion. Nobody has been disrespectful or rude. It is just off topic and broad religious discussion is discouraged at Websleuths because it can go sideways fast. It ididn't here but rules are rules.

I want you to know you have been a truly great group discussing this difficult case. When members have nothing new to chew on and go round and round examining the same minimal facts for a long while things can get heated easily. You have been given almost no new info in months and months. I know how hard that is. You have discussed theories and examined the facts every way to Sunday and done so respectfully. I so appreciate that. You have no idea how much.

This conversation could easily be a poostorm of crazy bickering. But it is not and you are the reason. You police yourselves and continue to be devoted to seeing this one resolved.

Just wanted to let you know why some stuff is missing and that I truly appreciate how you have handled yourselves in here.

:loveyou:

tlcya.

Thank you, tlcya! I knew we were treading on thin ice and was afraid this day would come.

I would also like to thank everyone who participated in the discussion and kept it civil.

Love you guys!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

.
DR lived on the property down the road from KR (I think). I was just thinking, and it seems this case is filled with coincidences so this probably means nothing, but it seems a lot of folks moved off of the main homestead (4077 UHR) within just a few weeks of the murders. The fella who now lives above where KR lived, moved from FR's to above KR. KR moved from the yellow house, to the camper, and DR and the kids moved to the trailer up the road. DR's move alone would make one think that some cash had come into the family. KR's camper was not there in previous map flyovers. The old one on the property was there. I tend to think his was new (or new to him). DR's was new to her. Maybe they'd just sold a crop? Idk, it just seems odd that it seems they all moved just a little bit before they were killed. Almost four weeks to the day for DR and the kids. I'd think if they were going to get them, it'd been easier to get them all at the 4077 address, before the moves. However, if we look at the theory that they waited for HR's baby, that could be why they didn't.

Or they didn't want to take a chance of having to kill BR who lived with FR and HHG so they waited for him to move out.

 

[jk204]

.
I've been chewing on this, combined w/your first post of the thread, this morning. If you've got any further tidbits, I'm all ears. :lookingitup: .

I am a methodical problem solver. I need to layout the math. It will take a few posts spread through time. Be patient and stay tuned

Then I can still be wrong like often in a math exam

 

[RAISINISBACK]

.
DR lived on the property down the road from KR (I think). I was just thinking, and it seems this case is filled with coincidences so this probably means nothing, but it seems a lot of folks moved off of the main homestead (4077 UHR) within just a few weeks of the murders. The fella who now lives above where KR lived, moved from FR's to above KR. KR moved from the yellow house, to the camper, and DR and the kids moved to the trailer up the road. DR's move alone would make one think that some cash had come into the family. KR's camper was not there in previous map flyovers. The old one on the property was there. I tend to think his was new (or new to him). DR's was new to her. Maybe they'd just sold a crop? Idk, it just seems odd that it seems they all moved just a little bit before they were killed. Almost four weeks to the day for DR and the kids. I'd think if they were going to get them, it'd been easier to get them all at the 4077 address, before the moves. However, if we look at the theory that they waited for HR's baby, that could be why they didn't.

I know this is going to sound like something off an old thirties gangster movie but this just occurred to me while I was taking a break and loafing on the job. If all the murdered people were living in the same place (4077) one month prior and this was well planned out, is it possible that there was some incident that occurred at 4077 in the months before which all the victims witnessed and CR1 was maybe blackmailing someone with? Or the incident occurred at 4077 and was witnessed by all the victims but was of such a terrible nature that the perpetrator would have did some serious jail time and was afraid to trust the victims not to tell someone about it?

 

[rsd1200]

I know this is going to sound like something off an old thirties gangster movie but this just occurred to me while I was taking a break and loafing on the job. If all the murdered people were living in the same place (4077) one month prior and this was well planned out, is it possible that there was some incident that occurred at 4077 in the months before which all the victims witnessed and CR1 was maybe blackmailing someone with? Or the incident occurred at 4077 and was witnessed by all the victims but was of such a terrible nature that the perpetrator would have did some serious jail time and was afraid to trust the victims not to tell someone about it?

BBM
Sounds feasible. One of the things that I've thought about w/regard to all of this, would also have to do w/the not killing the infants, why they'd waited for HR"s baby to be born, and why they may not want anyone to know they were the father of HR's baby. Maybe all of the people in those trailers knew who may be the third possibility, had seen that person come and go, had been left alone with HR, and it was going to cause a $%^#storm. If it is not at least one person who knew these people well, I will be completely shocked.

 

[amauet1]

rsd1200, on the subject of money they may have "come into" around that time. The only way it could have come from mj is an indoor grow. Now DR's place had just been bought the month before, so I rule it out. That leaves CRsr's, Frankie's and KR. Who knows what if anything was grown in their trailer's, out back in a black barn, or underground someway? But Reader's statement about it "being bigger" than drugs kinda makes me rule out sales of that product.
I don't know anything about growing pot, but in April it's to cold to grow outside. Could you harvest it and dry it something like tobacco? If so then the sale of their product could be possible.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
Sounds feasible. One of the things that I've thought about w/regard to all of this, would also have to do w/the not killing the infants, why they'd waited for HR"s baby to be born, and why they may not want anyone to know they were the father of HR's baby. Maybe all of the people in those trailers knew who may be the third possibility, had seen that person come and go, had been left alone with HR, and it was going to cause a $%^#storm. If it is not at least one person who knew these people well, I will be completely shocked.

Everyone living at 4077 and witnessing some event would certainly explain why KR was killed also.

I was thinking along the lines that a relative or close friend may have murdered someone at the 4077 residence while all the victims were there and disposed of the body elsewhere. If the perpetrator of something like that was a relative then that would deter the victims from reporting it right away. Or if it was a very close friend they had known for many years. But then the perpetrator got nervous about what the victims had seen and since he had already killed once killing again wouldn't be a stretch. Or if it was some friend they all knew or worked for who may have had access to a lot of money.

Hush money would also explain that influx of money the month before when DR's new home was bought and KR maybe acquired that new camper. It would all maybe fit, and give a reason for traveling all that way to kill KR.

This would also explain why the children were not harmed since they were all too young to talk and BR may not have been present during the incident in question.

There was at least one body discovered around the time of these murders IIRC. I don't remember the name but he was found in his truck I think. Does anyone recall right off hand the circumstances of that. I know it was discussed at length in the earlier threads.

Like I said something right out of an old thirties gangster movie, but sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Anyone else have an opinion on this theory?

 

[Flatbush]

Speaking of money, probably means nothing but worth mentioning I think. Around the time of murders was winding up income tax season. I would imagine some but not all, got hefty refunds.

 

[rsd1200]

I am a methodical problem solver. I need to layout the math. It will take a few posts spread through time. Be patient and stay tuned

Then I can still be wrong like often in a math exam

I found that quote you were looking for. I was the one who posted it. Back in Thread #17 on May 29, 2016, post #2.

The post reads:
"It was there, in his usual straightforward and direct manner, that Reader told the family this was no random act, that the Rhodens had been targeted for a reason. And he told them he believed that someone sitting inside that house of God knew why."

Here's the link
http://www.dispatch.com/news/201605...nty-waits-and-hopes-for-answers-in-8-killings

 

[rsd1200]

rsd1200, on the subject of money they may have "come into" around that time. The only way it could have come from mj is an indoor grow. Now DR's place had just been bought the month before, so I rule it out. That leaves CRsr's, Frankie's and KR. Who knows what if anything was grown in their trailer's, out back in a black barn, or underground someway? But Reader's statement about it "being bigger" than drugs kinda makes me rule out sales of that product.
I don't know anything about growing pot, but in April it's to cold to grow outside. Could you harvest it and dry it something like tobacco? If so then the sale of their product could be possible.

You could definitely do that in CR1's trailer, with grow lights. Reader said it was a "couple of little indoor grows". iirc I think that Flatbush has a point about the tax returns too. But CR1 was messing w/pot in some form. I don't really think it was the direct cause of their deaths though.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Speaking of money, probably means nothing but worth mentioning I think. Around the time of murders was winding up income tax season. I would imagine some but not all, got hefty refunds.

CR1 being self employed probably wouldn't have gotten a refund and unless he paid estimated tax he might even have owed taxes.

DR with low wages and one child would have gotten the Earned Income and Child Tax Credit and the ACTC at least on CR2. The CTC and ACTC is 1000.00 per child and the EIC can be upwards to 3300.00 per child pro rated on income. Hannah also if she worked enough during her pregnancy and claimed SW. Same with FR if he claimed RR. Those three could have gotten some hefty refunds. But it has been my experience that people who get those credits file early in February.

GR and KR being single with no kids wouldn't have gotten much if any of a refund.

I don't see a tax refund as being the source of any infusion of money in late April. Late January, early February maybe. And I don't see a tax refund as the source of the 30000.00 CR1 paid down on DR's house.

I could be wrong.

 

[jk204]

I found that quote you were looking for. I was the one who posted it. Back in Thread #17 on May 29, 2016, post #2.

The post reads:
"It was there, in his usual straightforward and direct manner, that Reader told the family this was no random act, that the Rhodens had been targeted for a reason. And he told them he believed that someone sitting inside that house of God knew why."

Here's the link
http://www.dispatch.com/news/201605...nty-waits-and-hopes-for-answers-in-8-killings

Thanks RSD!

Authorities still refuse to discuss motive. But on that first day, right before the first news conference, DeWine and Reader walked into the Union Hill Church, the kind of small, country church where its white steeple and the U.S. flag each jut into the sky.

Wow. That was quick. I want to ask: Did Dewine and Reader visited every churches around for that speech?

"It didn't make everybody happy to hear that," he said in an interview on Tuesday. "In fact, it made some of them angry. But I want people to know this: Every decision I make in this case is deliberate, and everything I say is thought through. My job is to protect the integrity of this case and to solve it. We only get one chance to do it right."

It must have been the tone.* Maybe be he thought the assaillants could be in there. Who knows?

 

[jk204]

Everyone living at 4077 and witnessing some event would certainly explain why KR was killed also.

I was thinking along the lines that a relative or close friend may have murdered someone at the 4077 residence while all the victims were there and disposed of the body elsewhere. If the perpetrator of something like that was a relative then that would deter the victims from reporting it right away. Or if it was a very close friend they had known for many years. But then the perpetrator got nervous about what the victims had seen and since he had already killed once killing again wouldn't be a stretch. Or if it was some friend they all knew or worked for who may have had access to a lot of money.

Hush money would also explain that influx of money the month before when DR's new home was bought and KR maybe acquired that new camper. It would all maybe fit, and give a reason for traveling all that way to kill KR.

This would also explain why the children were not harmed since they were all too young to talk and BR may not have been present during the incident in question.

There was at least one body discovered around the time of these murders IIRC. I don't remember the name but he was found in his truck I think. Does anyone recall right off hand the circumstances of that. I know it was discussed at length in the earlier threads.

Like I said something right out of an old thirties gangster movie, but sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Anyone else have an opinion on this theory?

How do you explain this in your theory?

“As the sheriff of this county, I fear if information is released it would put the minor children or their caregivers in grave danger"

Pike County Juvenile Court Judge Robert Rosenberger ruled that public access to court hearings and records related to a now five-month girl and 11-month-old boy “could harm the children or their custodians.”

"The Court does not believe that threat of harm has diminished with the passage of time,'' Rosenberg wrote.

 

[jk204]

rsd1200, on the subject of money they may have "come into" around that time. The only way it could have come from mj is an indoor grow. Now DR's place had just been bought the month before, so I rule it out. That leaves CRsr's, Frankie's and KR. Who knows what if anything was grown in their trailer's, out back in a black barn, or underground someway? But Reader's statement about it "being bigger" than drugs kinda makes me rule out sales of that product.
I don't know anything about growing pot, but in April it's to cold to grow outside. Could you harvest it and dry it something like tobacco? If so then the sale of their product could be possible.

If the had been a grow in FR and HHG's trailer, I would think the aid for funeral service of victims would have been denied

There are other ways to receive money. For example if you bare a child for another infertile woman?

I am speculating here. What the law says in Ohio about this?

 

[rsd1200]

Thanks RSD!

Authorities still refuse to discuss motive. But on that first day, right before the first news conference, DeWine and Reader walked into the Union Hill Church, the kind of small, country church where its white steeple and the U.S. flag each jut into the sky.

Wow. That was quick. I want to ask: Did Dewine and Reader visited every churches around for that speech?

"It didn't make everybody happy to hear that," he said in an interview on Tuesday. "In fact, it made some of them angry. But I want people to know this: Every decision I make in this case is deliberate, and everything I say is thought through. My job is to protect the integrity of this case and to solve it. We only get one chance to do it right."

It must have been the tone.* Maybe be he thought the assaillants could be in there. Who knows?

BBM
Possible. I'd not be surprised at this point. It read that there were "[FONT=&amp]Some 150 relatives" [/FONT]who'd gathered there. Reader's comment makes ya go, hmmmm. I bet LE jotted down the names of everyone in that church.

 

[jk204]

IMO, perps waited for HR to have her baby. For this reason, I always thought she is central to this case.

What is the motivation for targeting
Here are two examples of crimes, cold and well planned, with steps taken not to get caught:

1) Woman desparate for baby fakes pregnancy for months and kills acquaintance for newborn:

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...y-killing-kansas-woman-taking-baby-police-say

2) Astronaut woman attacks love triangle rival. How far a jealous woman can go?

*http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/10/florida.astronaut.trial/
.

I was inspired by the stories I posted earlier due to the planning of the crime and the number of women I find in the litterature of this case. Everything below is my gut feel.

HR and HHG were about 19 and at that age, some girls change boys like boys change cars. They take boys away from other girls they know. Pike County is a very, very small world. Good men are rare, especially if you are not so attractive.

Women can be extremely nasty to each other. They can stab you in the back, you will never it coming. They’ll team up with people who hate you and put 5 bullets to your head. If everyone hates you, it's easier.

Why are women so good at planning and concealing IMO? Because they've got the "going concern", the instinct of survival to have babies and raise a family. Some women feel completely futureles without. Some are ready to kill for it. They can devise unbelievable plans for it.

They've got the tribal instinct also. Leading the hord. Younger, they can get involved in the custody disputes of their brothers or cousins. See often this happens around you. History repeats itself. Older women can lead a pack of hungry wolves better than a patriarch.

Along the same lines of the female wolfe metaphore, women have good ears. They can smell the danger brewing out of the town gossip. They’ll know when not to go somewhere. They'll know exactly where the trouble is, when there is.

 

[jk204]

Also. A woman may not always have a weapon. But she knows where she can find one

 

[jk204]

To be broad and exhaustive on the scenarios consistent with the Court decision regarding the Children:

It would* work in the scenario of* violent dispute following an allegation of rape.
In this case the LE & Court could fear:
- difficulty in identifying the father
- unpredictable reaction of the suspect.

However I would be extremely prudent with rumors because the family had a bad reputation and I believe it is in the interest of some people to make them look bad.

 

[Elley Mae]

How do you explain this in your theory?

“As the sheriff of this county, I fear if information is released it would put the minor children or their caregivers in grave danger"

Pike County Juvenile Court Judge Robert Rosenberger ruled that public access to court hearings and records related to a now five-month girl and 11-month-old boy “could harm the children or their custodians.”

"The Court does not believe that threat of harm has diminished with the passage of time,'' Rosenberg wrote.

bbm, This makes me think that the the children would have been killed/murdered as well but were not seen.