OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[rsd1200]

I wish we had something more than anecdotal evidence to work with. The killers wouldn't have been able to wear ear plugs as they needed to communicate with each other and be able to listen for anyone approaching by car or otherwise. It would have been very disorienting for the killers if they were not trained or had practice to handle it. Does anyone know if BJM had a membership to practice frequently at the local gun range? Did she own a lot of weapons and go on frequent night hunts with the men? How long had she been a skilled night time hunter with jungle skills? /s

I've had a firearm, of some sort, since I was 18 y/o and have shot many, and own a variety, and according to what type of firearm was used, and the ammo used, they will have differing sounds, for example, a 357 will have a high pitch sound, and a 44 will make a big BOOM sound. The 44 is deafening to shoot outside, but I'd rather hear it and wear headgear. Without headgear a 357 will make your ears ring all day w/o ear protection. A 44 makes your hearing dull, like you've been to a concert and sat in front of the speakers all night. It may be different for others though. I can shoot my 38 w/o headgear outside and it not bother me but I prefer to take care of my hearing. If the shooters had headgear they could have used hand signals it's not that hard especially if you are a hunter and have to be silent in the woods for hours, or are LE, or military. You learn those things. My dog knows hand signals.

However here is an article about gunfire and recognizing gunfire.

Recognizing Gunfire Inside
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/recognizing-the-sound-of-gunfire

Gunfire inside a building doesn’t sound like gunfire at the shooting range. I’ve participated in numerous active shooter training scenarios where I have been tasked with finding the “shooter” inside a large building. Even when the person playing the role of the shooter is firing full power blank cartridges, it is difficult to locate him inside a school or office building. The shots sound muffled and the direction from which they are being fired is difficult to determine. Sometimes, you won’t be able to hear the shots at all! I remember playing the role of the active shooter for a neighboring police agency’s training scenario. I was firing blanks from an AR-15 rifle in a vacant multi-story office building. The officers trying to find me did not even hear the shots from just one floor below my location!

Even if you have fired a weapon many times, you should recognize that guns fired indoors sound different than guns fired outside. Go visit an indoor shooting range. The muffled sounds that you can hear from outside (or from the front room outside the range) are most similar to the sounds of gunfire inside a building. Learn to recognize them.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think it's been assumed that BJM and friends were working for CR1 to water and tend the plants in the MJ grow op. They're not going to say that on television or in a newspaper interview, though.

No offense intended, but the idea that a middle aged woman with no related background or skills masterminded and carried out the murders of 8 family members in 4 different homes is one of the most ridiculous theories I've ever heard. I'm not sure I understand where something like that comes from and I really don't want to know.

BBM

Where and when did I say that ?

I said I found it odd that LM said she was there every morning feeding the animals when HHG seemed like an able bodied young woman.

I never said BJM killed anyone. But I do think she lied about what time she got there and what she was really doing there every morning, if indeed she really was there every morning.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

If they all let the perps in themselves at each crime scene, why were most of them asleep in bed when killed? That would have taken the killers a really long time - to enter each home, chat, then wait for the victims to go to bed before killing them. Then leave and repeat the same thing at the next home and the next.

Why would the killers need to do that? It seems very time consuming and extremely risky for zero benefit. Seem it would be much easier and quicker to sneak into the homes to kill them in their sleep instead of going in, exchanging pleasantries and waiting for them to go to bed.

For those of you who suspect BJM of so much, you need to decide if she was a mastermind, triggerperson or just the dupe who was chosen to discover the bodies. I don't think she can be all of those things.

As for the Wagners, I'm sensing a double standard being applied here. Because they weren't wealthy, they're not suspected of dealing drugs or killing the Rhoden family. But because the Rhodens and Manleys were poor, they were suspected of dealing drugs and killing the Rhoden family. Which is it? Poor people are virtuous and incapable of drugs dealing and murder or poor people are terrible people who deal in drugs and murder their families?

I don't suspect BJM of anything other than possibly being pumped for info. However, it appears that CR1 and GR were killed in the front room and drug to the bedroom. That, to me, says at least one was awake, I'm leaning toward CR1. KR, I've always thought was awake and let them in, because of Brownie. It's been said that JM saw part of DR through the door, that doesn't speak to her being in bed. CR2 was found between the bed and the wall, that speaks to be awake and hiding. I think that HHG and FR, and HMR were asleep, and possibly GR. They didn't say that all of them were killed in their beds or asleep. I guess it's whatever one's interpretation of "many" is, to me, it doesn't mean all.

Authorities said at the time that all eight were shot in the head "execution-style" and that many were asleep in their beds when they were killed,

http://www.newsweek.com/ohio-family-murders-gunshot-wounds-bruising-452801

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I've had a firearm, of some sort, since I was 18 y/o and have shot many, and own a variety, and according to what type of firearm was used, and the ammo used, they will have differing sounds, for example, a 357 will have a high pitch sound, and a 44 will make a big BOOM sound. The 44 is deafening to shoot outside, but I'd rather hear it and wear headgear. Without headgear a 357 will make your ears ring all day w/o ear protection. A 44 makes your hearing dull, like you've been to a concert and sat in front of the speakers all night. It may be different for others though. I can shoot my 38 w/o headgear outside and it not bother me but I prefer to take care of my hearing. If the shooters had headgear they could have used hand signals it's not that hard especially if you are a hunter and have to be silent in the woods for hours, or are LE, or military. You learn those things. My dog knows hand signals.

However here is an article about gunfire and recognizing gunfire.

Recognizing Gunfire Inside
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/recognizing-the-sound-of-gunfire

I don't know where we all got on the fact that pistols were used. It could have been a 22 rifle which wouldn't make that loud of a noise. In fact the first shot could have came from outside through that window that had a bullet hole in it.

A 22 will kill you just as dead as a 44.

We just don;t know what kind of gun was used. By the fact that the victims had to be shot multiple times kind of indicates it was a smaller gun. It took 9 shots to kill CR1. That kind of says a small caliber gun to me. But I am not an expert in guns.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't know where we all got on the fact that pistols were used. It could have been a 22 rifle which wouldn't make that loud of a noise. In fact the first shot could have came from outside through that window that had a bullet hole in it.

A 22 will kill you just as dead as a 44.

We just don;t know what kind of gun was used. By the fact that the victims had to be shot multiple times kind of indicates it was a smaller gun. It took 9 shots to kill CR1. That kind of says a small caliber gun to me. But I am not an expert in guns.

I think that it was likely a small caliber firearm too. My little .38 special will do the job but it only holds five rounds. I think it was likely a small caliber, semi, and they could pop magazines in and out, and they tossed the firearms, after they were done. They are likely long gone. I think there were at least two folks, possibly three (the third was a driver).

 

[rsd1200]

I did find it odd that they were with her at all. LM stated that she had been going there every single day to feed the chickens and dogs. I found that an extremely odd statement since HHG did not work and throwing out some dog feed and chicken feed wouldn't be so hard that you would need to hire someone to do it for you. No heavy lifting involved and the R's didn't seem like lazy people or people that were so affluent that they hired people to do small odd jobs. In other words they didn't seem like the kind of people who hired a maid to come in daily. That part struck me as very odd. For that matter CR1 and FR or GR could have all poured out some dog feed and threw a bit of feed to the chickens.

It all just seems off to me. If it were me I would have hired my DIL-to-be to do it so as to provide her and my son with a little extra money.

I have often thought there was a much closer relationship between CR1 and BJM than between DR and BJM.

JMO

I think that BJM was kinda an adopted R. I believe she may have had a job at a local place that paid min. wage, and, iirc, she lived in one of CR1's places reasonably. I think that it was more to help her out than to help them out. LM said that BJM was easily taken advantage of, and had the "heart of a kid". She cleaned KR's place too, iirc.

 

[rsd1200]

Betty Hubby uses a Glock 40 for work and has a laser light for it although he does not use the laser at work. He said wherever the red light falls is where the bullet goes. No extra skill needed in confined spaces, in fact a laser makes it much easier to hit what you aim at. He has training though.

Hubby says it is simple to attach and remove, no skill needed for that.

As an aside Betty, Hubby has said from the beginning that former or current LE or military were involved in the crime. I disagree but have often thought about AW being prior military. We have no way of knowing what her job was in the military or if it involved weapons training or attack planning.

.
JMO

BBM

Her FB read; Former Airman at United States Air Force.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I think that BJM was kinda an adopted R. I believe she may have had a job at a local place that paid min. wage, and, iirc, she lived in one of CR1's places reasonably. I think that it was more to help her out than to help them out. LM said that BJM was easily taken advantage of, and had the "heart of a kid". She cleaned KR's place too, iirc.

This old article has a lot of insight about BJM and many other things as well. There’s actually a lot of insight to be read here. I don’t believe her intellectual level is what would be considered average and is more so a little delayed. And that’s okay! But it could explain why they all tried to help her-because the family knew and understood her needs.

https://hazlitt.net/murder-union-hill-road

 

[rsd1200]

If they all let the perps in themselves at each crime scene, why were most of them asleep in bed when killed? That would have taken the killers a really long time - to enter each home, chat, then wait for the victims to go to bed before killing them. Then leave and repeat the same thing at the next home and the next.

Why would the killers need to do that? It seems very time consuming and extremely risky for zero benefit. Seem it would be much easier and quicker to sneak into the homes to kill them in their sleep instead of going in, exchanging pleasantries and waiting for them to go to bed.

For those of you who suspect BJM of so much, you need to decide if she was a mastermind, triggerperson or just the dupe who was chosen to discover the bodies. I don't think she can be all of those things.

As for the Wagners, I'm sensing a double standard being applied here. Because they weren't wealthy, they're not suspected of dealing drugs or killing the Rhoden family. But because the Rhodens and Manleys were poor, they were suspected of dealing drugs and killing the Rhoden family. Which is it? Poor people are virtuous and incapable of drugs dealing and murder or poor people are terrible people who deal in drugs and murder their families?

I don't know if the Ws were wealthy or not. I just suspect that they had financial troubles, and aren't good business folks. The only thing I see them likely being are mules. If they were, and it was illegal drugs, then that's on them whether they saved their money or not. It appears they didn't. Paying CR1 the compliment of being a good businessman, legal or not, is not a put down. He was slowly building something for himself, his children, and his grandchildren. Weed op or not, he was savvy. I believe him, and DR, to have been intelligent folks, and trying to start over.

I've never heard that the Ms were drug dealers, but, at least two or three, R's, were dealing in an illegal product. KR2 said that her father grew weed to help out, no one filed a claim for victim's benefits on him, or GR, and CR1's bil's, victim's claim, for $4k in net wage loss, was turned down, but no one else's was, so that speaks to something there. We just don't know what.

FWIW, I don't care if one is rich, poor, black, white, gay, straight, religious, or never darkens a church door, that's not how I go about my theorizing. Just because I may not agree with someone's theory, doesn't mean I'm disrespecting them, or the deceased. It doesn't bother me that others don't agree with my theories, and I don't feel that they disagree, because of they way the view the deceased. As I've said before, the Ws are a couple three notches down on my whodunnit list, depending on the day, and mood, but, if they did it, I think they did it themselves w/the help of a Judas. One of my theories entails some folks that all the Rs had in common, and are wealthy, and they had business dealings with, but most don't agree with me, but I'm okay with that.

 

[rsd1200]

This old article has a lot of insight about BJM and many other things as well. There’s actually a lot of insight to be read here. I don’t believe her intellectual level is what would be considered average and is more so a little delayed. And that’s okay! But it could explain why they all tried to help her-because the family knew and understood her needs.

https://hazlitt.net/murder-union-hill-road

Yes, I've read that one and keep it at the top of my list. Those two authors had a hard time getting much out of folks but LM & BJM did talk to them. I'm not entirely sure if maybe it's her friends I'm hearing in the background, or if I hear a child in the background, of the 911 call, so, it makes me wonder if she went to both trailers before she called. That may be where the time is kinda off that they wonder about. She may have even blanked it out what she did first and her friends may have just agreed with whatever she said. She probably should talk to someone but I doubt that will happen. There's still a stigma attached to that, in these parts, anyway. I'd guess maybe there, too.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes, I've read that one and keep it at the top of my list. Those two authors had a hard time getting much out of folks but LM & BJM did talk to them. I'm not entirely sure if maybe it's her friends I'm hearing in the background, or if I hear a child in the background, of the 911 call, so, it makes me wonder if she went to both trailers before she called. That may be where the time is kinda off that they wonder about. She may have even blanked it out what she did first and her friends may have just agreed with whatever she said. She probably should talk to someone but I doubt that will happen. There's still a stigma attached to that, in these parts, anyway. I'd guess maybe there, too.

I’ve read this article more times than I can count. Something about it just sticks with me.

It’s very possible she blanked out and was just running on autopilot. Adrenaline kicks in and you become numb when you’re in a traumatic situation but the flashbacks come back and you remember more and more as time passes (usually). I think there’s a stigma attached to seeking psychological treatment in most places. There is here too. It’s one of those hush hush things and something you don’t tell many because you don’t want to be labeled as “crazy”. BUT psychological damage from trauma is very real and so is PTSD (I suspect she now deals with that). I am glad that her and her parents have found at-least found solace and support at church. Sometimes, all one has left in life to cling to is Faith, when there’s been great trauma.

 

[rsd1200]

I’ve read this article more times than I can count. Something about it just sticks with me.

It’s very possible she blanked out and was just running on autopilot. Adrenaline kicks in and you become numb when you’re in a traumatic situation but the flashbacks come back and you remember more and more as time passes (usually). I think there’s a stigma attached to seeking psychological treatment in most places. There is here too. It’s one of those hush hush things and something you don’t tell many because you don’t want to be labeled as “crazy”. BUT psychological damage from trauma is very real and so is PTSD (I suspect she now deals with that). I am glad that her and her parents have found at-least found solace and support at church. Sometimes, all one has left in life to cling to is Faith, when there’s been great trauma.

Same. It was that article, to me, that shed the truest light on BJM, and her parents. You make a good point about the church. Their pastor seems like a caring person too, so maybe he has helped with counsel, and prayer. Even if she sought out psychological services, I'm not sure there'd be any local services that could deal with this type of trauma. Another thing about this article, you can see how folks take note of outsiders.

 

[Betty P]

Here are a couple more links for people to contact, email, etc to encourage someone to feature the Rhoden Massacre on a investigation tv show.

Investigation Discovery has a new cold case show

https://corporate.discovery.com/dis...tigation-discoverys-series-breaking-homicide/

Marcia Clark's new tv show

https://www.aetv.com/shows/marcia-clark-investigates-the-first-48

 

[amauet1]

Just a thought. The W family didn't need to pay for the hit, nor did they order it. They may have been doing business with the person who had the money and the power - a drug boss. All they had to do was go to the drug boss and tell him that the Rhodens were snitches or were stealing. The drug boss already has enough drama going on in other areas with LE breathing down their neck or others compromising operations. The Rhoden murders, as many have concluded, were also done to send a big, loud message to others in the area - keep quiet or you're next.




I'm not sure why some people have a hard time accepting that the W family might have also been involved in illegal activity. There were just as many opportunities for them to be involved in growing, dealing or hauling product. There's also the possibility of LE involvement, not necessarily from Pike County, but others in the region. Anyone ever wonder why LE from other counties haven't been involved much in the investigation? Since the Golden State Killer has been captured, I've been reading a lot about how his knowledge of LE investigations helped him evade investigators when committing crimes.

Another thought to ponder about the red truck that JM owned - since LE likely knew who owned that truck at the time of the murders, shouldn't they have put a tracker on it right away, before it was given to JM? Just food for thought.

"some people" I guess that is directed to me since you used my post. I am entitled to my opinions just like everyone on this thread. There is absolutly no evidence pointing to anyone as a suspect in this case. LE/BCI have mentioned quite a few things/statements to the public that have turned out to be false. Simply saying their "focused" on someone doesn't mean a suspect. Until they announce an arrest, I will continue to suspect whom I please.

 

[amauet1]

BBM
That's what hunters do. Humans are just another animal. With the right patience, planning, perseverance, willpower, and hate, folks can do a lot of things. If the Ws were trying to look poor, they weren't succeeding. They just had no skills at making money, but they had a lot of skill at spending it. They bored with a big auger but nothing to back it up.

Look at CR1, though. He was buying up land, putting trailers on it, and improving the properties, renting them out, he just didn't mind the clutter at his place on UHR. Had a big ole safe in the business trailer. Was buying and selling cars, selling them at a local car lot, paid $30k cash toward DR's home, was tossing his hat into some sort of other businesses, and had lots of extra cash for their favorite pastime.

They were derby folks and car folks, and he and FR didn't mind the clutter. You can look at the old shots of Left Fork, before they lived there, during, and after. Same thing with cars. Junk cars doesn't necessarily denote poverty. I'm sure they weren't smokin rich, but they were doin' okay. Used to be a guy down the road that had hundreds of cars on his property. That's what he liked. He sold parts and worked on them.

The Ws just didn't seem to be able to have any success at anything. They seemed to have no business sense. JW got his cdl in 2011 and hardly made enough to pay his truck payments from what I've read. I think the house was in the boys' names b/c his parents likely had run out their credit. Just a guess there. That doesn't mean they couldn't use their hunting sense/skills though. Boar hunting is an adrenaline packed hunt, lots of prep, and it is not for the weak, nor the faint of heart. They take place, usually, at night, and can be in not the greatest of terrain. They can be dangerous too. I'd not dismiss well trained hunters.

As for the locations, I didn't go down UHR as I didn't have time, but I was on the Appalachian Hwy (32) and went right past UHR. The terrain is rugged, and at night, it is much like it is here, in the mountains, you don't see a lot of folks on that highway. There's a rest stop not far after you pass UHR and we did stop there. No one there. Those parkways are usually vacant at night. At least they are here and so are the side roads. My kid hit a deer about 10 minutes from their home, and it took nearly two hours for LE to show up. There's not large numbers of LEOs either. They needed a police report for einsurance. It was a large buck, so it did a lot of damage. Jumped right up onto the side, and onto the hood. No one was hurt, but the deer did not survive.

Yes, a lot of people think that poor people/hill people are stupid, because their not "book smart". Not so! They have been struggling to keep food on the table and clothes on their backs for ages. And can come up with genoius ways of acheiving this. If the majority of us tried to live off the land, we'd be dead, not them. Running all those businesses and keeping ahead of the law (CRsr and others) takes a very smart, intellingent person.

 

[amauet1]

I agree with much of what you wrote.

One thing about the covering of CR1 and putting them in the bedroom that I've been pondering on;

Whoever did this, knew, that BJM would be there that morning, early. They had some sort of pity on her, and locked the doors, maybe not knowing about the hidden key. BJM, unlike a lot of folks, including her brother, and trained in emergency medical, nephew, unlocked the doors, sees a bloodbath in the den, and drag marks, and rolls right up in there, shouting for them! Were the killers trying to spare her by moving them and locking the door? But it didn't work? She then runs next door for help and finds another bloodbath. Grabs those babies and packs them out of there. Can you imagine what she looks like when LE gets there?! Honestly, family is usually the first to be questioned, and she's standing there covered in blood, with two folks who don't even want their names to be given out (although most everyone knows who they are at this juncture), and probably are trying to just go home and out of the spotlight. She's all up in both crime scenes. footprints, hand prints, dna. I mean, on one hand, DANG, she did what two men couldn't, she went in to check on her people, to see if anyone was alive, but that put her all up in the scenes, but, if I were her, I'd hope that I'd go in and get those babies too.

I think that CR1 possibly let them in or they were already inside, too. Same with KR, and DR. With FR and HHG, I think they may have found an outdoor key, or had a gotten a key, from a turncoat relative, or some other way. Maybe they already had one. The Rs were fighters. Whoever did this, at least one, knew them, and knew how to get them.

I've always leaned toward someone being in the homes with them, especially CRsr, because I can't get over him not having a gun ready (from troubles going on already). Maybe someone hid his and others guns?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM

Her FB read; Former Airman at United States Air Force.

That could cover a lot of ground from a pilot to a weapons specialist

 

[RAISINISBACK]

"some people" I guess that is directed to me since you used my post. I am entitled to my opinions just like everyone on this thread. There is absolutly no evidence pointing to anyone as a suspect in this case. LE/BCI have mentioned quite a few things/statements to the public that have turned out to be false. Simply saying their "focused" on someone doesn't mean a suspect. Until they announce an arrest, I will continue to suspect whom I please.

At this point after the way this crime has been shut down without even a scrap of information getting out, I would not be surprised if they told us aliens from Mars did it.

 

[rsd1200]

That could cover a lot of ground from a pilot to a weapons specialist

It's equivalent to a Private First Class if I'm reading this right.

Airman (E-2) is the second lowest enlisted rank in the US Air Force. Airman is the rank just above Airman Basic and below Airman First Class. An Airman is typically promoted from Airman Basic after six months of active duty service, or immediately after basic training, under certain circumstances. An Airman's responsibilities include adjusting to Air Force life and studying in an Air Force school for a specific specialty. Some specialties include technical skills in aircraft, weapons, the medical field, security and more.

https://www.military-ranks.org/air-force/airman

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It's equivalent to a Private First Class if I'm reading this right.



https://www.military-ranks.org/air-force/airman

But would she not have advanced after basic training which is usually six months? Wonder what her specialty was and why she never advanced? Unless she did advance and was demoted back to an airman for some reason?