OR - Emilio Hoffman, 14, killed in Troutdale high school shooting, 10 June 2014

[Spice]

I kind of think (he went right to the gym ) that all he wanted was coach for some reason-- he passed a bunch of kids eveindetly --- and I think this has something to do with no release of info ...............

Wasn't the coach, the one that was grazed, and also the one that began the lockdown which ultimately saved everyone? I'm not sure he was the ultimate target, if he was the shooter would have had the element of surprise and he would be more seriously injured. That is just my take.

Plus, I thought I read somewhere that the shooter encountered the coach and the victim in the locker room and not the gym. But maybe he just encountered the victim in the locker room and not the coach. I'll google around and check.

 

[Kimster]

I am sorry Kimster. I am trying constantly to walk the line. It's just difficult to talk about a mass shooting without talking about the murder weapon and the rampage shooter's ability to obtain the murder weapons and ammo, which inevitably leads too...you know what.

In any event, just so I am clear with what can and cannot be posted in here: We can discuss how he obtained his weapons? What he used? And where he possibly purchased his 9 clips of Ammo? But not how we feel about it either way? Is that correct? Just so I know.

When it comes to this crime, you can talk about guns all day long. You just can't talk about how there needs to be gun control laws in this country. Anything about changing the law belongs in the PP.

 

[Kimster]

You can say "I don't think a 15 year old should have access to guns!"

You can't say "this proves all assault weapons need to be illegal!"

Hope that helps.

 

[Dogface]

Oops sorry! lease:

I will just say I think it's sad that someone unstable had access to any weapon, guns, knives, cars, bomb making stuff, that could harm others, I think we as parents, teachers, friends, healthcare professionals and LE are missing or turning a blind eye to red flags. Hopefully there will be a more discernible way to identify people likely to commit crimes like this.

Like hand out pamphlets that say, has someone you know or love become reclusive? Do they display behavior or express thoughts that may encourage violence against others? Do they support radical ideologies beyond the point of normal dissent?

:dunno:

 

[Kimster]

I'm flying out now. Have a good discussion. :grouphug:

:ufo:

 

[nightwatch]

http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/i...school_shooting_troutda.html#incart_big-photo

How did he get this gun from a 'secured' storage space? I'm really tired of people getting access to other family members guns.

Ok we've had knock down drag out debates about parents being responsible for their teens behavior and crimes. Where are the parents? Evidently the secured storage space that held this gun was crap. I wouldn't be surprised if a civil suit eventually filed against them Jmo

ciao

 

[Dogface]

I think an obsession with anything is an indicator of someone not balanced mentally. I have lots of guns, but I'm not obsessed. I have lots of shoes, but I'm not obsessed. Obsessive behavior is a big red flag to anyone's mental instability.

 

[Dogface]

Ok we've had knock down drag out debates about parents being responsible for their teens behavior and crimes. Where are the parents? Evidently the secured storage space that held this gun was crap. I wouldn't be surprised if a civil suit eventually filed against them Jmo

ciao

Yeah if you have a gun crazed kid in the house you should damn well make sure your guns are unattainable to them!

 

[Spice]

I think an obsession with anything is an indicator of someone not balanced mentally. I have lots of guns, but I'm not obsessed. I have lots of shoes, but I'm not obsessed. Obsessive behavior is a big red flag to anyone's mental instability.

Agreed.

I also, have a lot of shoes. And I'm not afraid to say I'm obsessed with them.

Lol!

 

[Gardenlady]

I think an obsession with anything is an indicator of someone not balanced mentally. I have lots of guns, but I'm not obsessed. I have lots of shoes, but I'm not obsessed. Obsessive behavior is a big red flag to anyone's mental instability.

The difference though, is that if your big interest in shoes rubs off your child, they aren't going to be able to kill anyone else with a bunch of shoes if they become obsessed.

If your big interest and collection of guns rubs off them, though....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bettybaby00]

Oops sorry! lease:

I will just say I think it's sad that someone unstable had access to any weapon, guns, knives, cars, bomb making stuff, that could harm others, I think we as parents, teachers, friends, healthcare professionals and LE are missing or turning a blind eye to red flags. Hopefully there will be a more discernible way to identify people likely to commit crimes like this.

Like hand out pamphlets that say, has someone you know or love become reclusive? Do they display behavior or express thoughts that may encourage violence against others? Do they support radical ideologies beyond the point of normal dissent?

:dunno:

BBM

How about these types of discussions in health class???? In NY kids have health class in middle and then again HS.

A kid just might possibly exhibit behaviors during class discussions (or papers, projects) about extreme attitudes. Teachers and other students might see the red flags.

Kids might come to better understand the red flags in their friends. The ones where they think something might be "off," or some how the person has changed, and they were at a loss as to what was wrong. Helping another kid to recognize signs in their friends just might mean the red flags don't get ignored. :dunno:

 

[Dogface]

What about the "gun crazed" parent with the "gun crazed" kid?

The Lanza's come to mind.

That is just a cycle of mental health issues, although I don't know the extent to his mothers obsession, just basing it off what I read in this thread. Unfortunately, unless an outside friend gets involved, those mental issues will likely go unresolved. Didn't Lanza have a brother who was "normal"?

 

[Indy Anna]

In this case and with Adam Lanza, I'd say parents should be much more concerned about some obsession with guns. Where does a 15 year old get the idea to join some of the 'adult' groups he joined like "We Will Not be Disarmed"? Why do parents not pay attention to these signs. Why are there any guns 'available' to a kid or a mentally ill person.

I don't care what these parents or the police are saying, if they wanted to secure their guns so their kids could NOT get at them, they could. PERIOD!

I know this is not the same in all cases, but we need to prosecute gun owners who let others have access to their guns... if it's your gun, then only you should have access. Nancy Lanza just basically let her severely mentally ill hate/war/violence obsessed son have access and even gave him one as a Christmas present.

In the Las Vegas case, they managed to obtain 3 guns (all legally purchased I think, but he was not allowed to have a gun nor live with someone who had a gun). None of their guns were registered.... you should have to register any gun upon purchase, shouldn't you? Is it voluntary?

BBM

IMO, many young teens share their parents' political views and social values. So, a teen's avid interest in such things would not seem alarming to family members. Not saying that the parents would condone this. I know the shooter's family is deeply hurt by this and I sympathize with them. I just don't think they saw it coming because they didn't notice he had taken these views to extreme. Plus, I think he had a personal vendetta against someone and saw violence, using what he had access to, as a means of revenge.

At what point do we decide someone has mental illness? Many people experience minor episodes of depression at some point in their lives and most people diagnosed with MI never resort to violence. And there are plenty of people who are viewed as normal until they resort to violence. Is there a way of knowing who is predisposed to violence and predicting a person's "tipping point?"

IMO, I can see where those who espouse extremist views would be more prone to rage killings. Often, people's extremist views become more radicalized as they are fueled by political agendas and social support. MOO

 

[Sonya610]

How did he get this gun from a 'secured' storage space? I'm really tired of people getting access to other family members guns.

I read the weapon was "secured" which could mean a gun lock, most new firearms come with them, it is like a bicycle type lock through the barrel that keeps the weapon from being loaded (would work for small children but anyone with a pair of bolt cutters could easily remove it).

I can't imagine how a kid would get it out of a gun safe that is for sure.

 

[Dogface]

Yeah I think the fact that people with these thoughts get encouragement and support of their unhealthy views probably plays a major role in things. There is a fb group for everything!

 

[Dogface]

I read the weapon was "secured" which could mean a gun lock, most new firearms come with them, it is like a bicycle type lock through the barrel that keeps the weapon from being loaded (would work for small children but anyone with a pair of bolt cutters could easily remove it).

I can't imagine how a kid would get it out of a gun safe that is for sure.

Yeah all my gun safes work off fingerprints, and open quickly. It's the only way I can think they are truly safe, and still accessible! It will be interesting to know what measures he took to get the gun. I can't imagine the guilt, on top of the pain of losing their child, the parents must feel.

 

[CARIIS]

Disclaimer: I have never seen a gun, known anyone that has one- just the way it has been. That being said I operate under the assumption that guns cost money. I also assume that 1000 rounds of ammunition = $$ too. With the exception of ERr , these folks were without financial resources.



Words Kim – gun control meaningless. Now I want to be careful here , I am not saying or asserting that all gun dealers have criminal backgrounds etc. . However, as we have seen guns have a lot of bad things associated with them



Now the media reports legally obtained guns. Have any of us ever heard that the (3 months later- when the purchaser bought 4 guns earlier) that indeed a background check Was run.


I own a gun store . A sale I made half a year ago , the purchaser killed 12. Three days later LE comes. What. I am going to say , oh I violated the law and did not run a background. That is absurd.
How do any of us- that are “told” legally purchased know that? That is something that could be proven. On xxx gun dealer XXX ran a background check on XXX and it reported xxx.


NONE of us know anything other , than guns dealers claim to have run background checks. I learned yesterday that there are a lot more gun background stuff in place. How can a gun store owner explain the 4 months ago ( when the purchaser has a criminal history for 12 years) that he came back clean. Resulting in a “clear” conclusion?
My conclusion is that the gun store owners are not doing it. They have bills to pay too. Some crack and$40 its yours …………………………we are being naïve



Gun selling IS different than a perfume seller –or a crock pot dealer it just is…………………

 

[Spice]

That is just a cycle of mental health issues, although I don't know the extent to his mothers obsession, just basing it off what I read in this thread. Unfortunately, unless an outside friend gets involved, those mental issues will likely go unresolved. Didn't Lanza have a brother who was "normal"?

It's not just a cycle of mental health issues, it's never just any one thing that creates these shooters.

Nancy Lanza's obsession with guns was beyond the pale. She believed in paranoid "prepper" "end of days' ideologies. She was what one would definitely call a "Gun Nut".

Lanza had a "normal" brother in the sense that he never became a mass murderer for sure and did not suffer from the same psychosocial problems that his brother did. Other than that, I do not know much about him.

Also, you can definitely raise two children in the same exact home, with the same exact parents and socialization and end up with two very different individuals.

That does not take away from the fact that Adam Lanza's mother socialized him to have an unhealthy, toxic, obsessive, relationship with guns. Even in the face of his MAJOR illnesses. She saw nothing wrong with it, which is why she did it to begin with yknow?

There is no denying that.

 

[Indy Anna]

Ok we've had knock down drag out debates about parents being responsible for their teens behavior and crimes. Where are the parents? Evidently the secured storage space that held this gun was crap. I wouldn't be surprised if a civil suit eventually filed against them Jmo

ciao

I don't know how gun storage spaces are typically secured, but I really don't see how one can reasonably be secured from a teenager. Securing guns and ammo from younger kids is one thing, but teens can figure things out.

 

[Sonya610]

The shooter looks a lot older than 15, I would have guessed 18+

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/728...nman-jared-michael-padgett-facebook-pictures/