Oscar Pistorius Defense

[Giles]

Quite the contrary--don't you now my work re the 5th phone?

What does heart and brain death have to do with phones etc.?

Yes, I am familiar with it - methinks this could run deep... I simply meant that his testimony of talking to his Cousin and sending texts etc can be proven.

 

[shane13]

4. OP didn't have a good 'meeting' that morning of the 13th. (Reeva had texted him, for lack of better description, 'soothing' texts.)

Is that in the BH affi?

Again my Q is only about what is in the BH affi and/or trial Plea.
(It's not about all events of the 12th, 13th, or 14th. Only waht's in the 2 affidvaits.

 

[shane13]

Yes, I am familiar with it - methinks this could run deep... I simply meant that his testimony of talking to his Cousin and sending texts etc can be proven.

Ok thanks.
If you could though, get the actual quotes from BH affi or trial plea or such and repost.

Thank you.

 

[Giles]

Is that in the BH affi?

Again my Q is only about what is in the BH affi and/or trial Plea.
(It's not about all events of the 12th, 13th, or 14th. Only waht's in the 2 affidvaits.

I understand. Disregard my previous post then.

 

[patCee]

Hmm! Seems we're left with this,

I am an adult male:

She had given me a present for Valentine's Day:

I phoned John Stander:

He's not given much away really. The DT must be proud. As we say in the UK 'the boy did good'. Say as little as possible and they can't catch you out.

 

[shane13]

To PPK and GB.

Yes I agree with you. I too believe OP dragged Reeva's body out by her feet.
(also implied by blood spatter expert]
Yes, horrifying, but nowhere's near so as my final shooting scenario replete with schadenfreude or sadism.

But it gives light to the belief that he had no deep feelings for Reeva.

I think his not getting her birthday right during testimony is telling.

He had a year to get right the date Reeva came into this world, and he didn't--the stickler for details. (And it's too depressing to go into now the day and circumstances she left this world at his hands.)

Shows no great feelings for Reeva. moo

 

[shane13]

4. OP didn't have a good 'meeting' that morning of the 13th. (Reeva had texted him, for lack of better description, 'soothing' texts.)

Well again I dont think that is in BH affi or trial plea.

 

[shane13]

Hmm! Seems we're left with this,

I am an adult male:

She had given me a present for Valentine's Day:

I phoned John Stander:

He's not given much away really. The DT must be proud. As we say in the UK 'the boy did good'. Say as little as possible and they can't catch you out.

Yes patCee.
Those are true things in his affidavits.

Almost trivially true as they don't get into the events related to the shooting. But u r right, they need to be in the list.

Can you add and repost. i've got carpal tunnel from too much typing.

 

[PPKik]

Blood tells its own story.

Yes it does when you have true experts. I have heard and read so much conflicting testimony, I am not sure what to believe about so-called arterial spurts, etc. I thought there was some debate on the blood spatter and what it meant. [See Michael Peterson trial "blood experts," e.g.]

I know the heart can keep beating after brain death, but seeing Reeva's head wound, I find it impossible to believe she was alive for the amount of time it took OP to go to the balcony, scream for help, put on his prosthetic legs, go back to the bathroom, beat in the toilet door, reach in to get the key, open the door with the key, check Reeva, sit with Reeva, pick her up, and walk through the bedroom door to the stairs, then carry her downstairs.

 

[patCee]

Yes patCee.
Those are true things in his affidavits.

Almost trivially true as they don't get into the events related to the shooting. But u r right, they need to be in the list.

Can you add and repost. i've got carpal tunnel from too much typing.

So, so far we have
1. he killed/shot her,
2. the 4 bullet holes.
3. I inflicted the fatal gun shot wounds to Reeva.
4. I am an adult male, a professional athlete.
5. She had given me a present for Valentines Day.
6 I phoned John Stander

Could possibly add from Charging Document: Reeva was unarmed and inside the toilet with the door closed.

 

[shane13]

So, so far we have
1. he killed/shot her,
2. the 4 bullet holes.
3. I inflicted the fatal gun shot wounds to Reeva.
4. I am an adult male.
5. She had given me a present for Valentines Day.
6 I phoned John Stander

Could possibly add from Charging Document: Reeva was unarmed and inside the toilet with the door closed.

Thank you Pat.

As we can see it's a very short list of provably true statements.

Even the "phoned John Stander" is not a simple, provable statement. Because I believe it came out that that is from the 5th phone. And as I have tirelessly said, having that phone for 16 days by DT, makes it likely that who called whom and when was altered and by standard rules of jurisprudence (zero chain of custody), its data should never have been entered into court proceedings. So how provable that one is is debatable. MOO.

 

[Giles]

Some other statements that are proven true.

From the Bail Hearing statement. "I kept a 9mm Parabellum under my bed."

"contractors who worked at my house had left ladders outside."

"the bathroom window was open"

From the plea statement: "The crime scene was contaminated, disturbed and tampered with."

Evidence has been presented (by the Prosecution) that the crime scene was (at least) contaminated.

 

[kittychi]

BBM

This is one thing I can't believe happened. If she was awake to say that, all his shouting and screaming to call police, etc, could not be true, and he surely would have whispered to her while retrieving his 9mm.

If OP did not shoot Reeva deliberately, but did think there was an intruder and approached that intruder and shot with recklessness, then he absolutely could not have been talking to Reeva moments before, imo. She would have answered.

Maybe I have misunderstood your post and you mean she said, "Baba can't you sleep?" at a much earlier time in the evening.

If so, and she did feel loved, when do you believe they were fighting for hours (if you do) as most people believe from the ear witness reports?


ETA: I just read a post above mine. Are you saying the night before as in the 12th and not the 13th? Did she spend two nights in a row with him?

BBM: No, I made a confusing post, not really answering Shane's question about what was true. I was posting what was true the night before and that's what OP used as the basis for his concocted story so at least it had a ring of truth to it.

Sorry, I mixed people up. I wasn't really following Shane's directions, but his post led me to think about what the truth is.

:facepalm: :blushing:

 

[kittychi]

To PPK and GB.

Yes I agree with you. I too believe OP dragged Reeva's body out by her feet.
(also implied by blood spatter expert]
Yes, horrifying, but nowhere's near so as my final shooting scenario replete with schadenfreude or sadism.

But it gives light to the belief that he had no deep feelings for Reeva.

I think his not getting her birthday right during testimony is telling.

He had a year to get right the date Reeva came into this world, and he didn't--the stickler for details. (And it's too depressing to go into now the day and circumstances she left this world at his hands.)

Shows no great feelings for Reeva. moo

Shane, you have used one of my very favorite words here: schadenfreude. I noticed that you've used it before.

Are you saying that OP enjoyed seeing and/or hearing Reeva in pain because she ticked him off so badly?

That is what I think. I take that from his attitude post shooting: scurrying to get his support team in gear, the filtered, cleansed and contrived PR statements and above all, his abject arrogance and indignance at having been charged at all.

 

[shane13]

Some other statements that are proven true.

From the Bail Hearing statement. "I kept a 9mm Parabellum under my bed."

"contractors who worked at my house had left ladders outside."

"the bathroom window was open"

From the plea statement: "The crime scene was contaminated, disturbed and tampered with."

Evidence has been presented (by the Prosecution) that the crime scene was (at least) contaminated.

I am not sure some of those are absolutely provable.

Where he kept his gun is in dispute.

Window open is likely true, but...

And where is crime scene contamination in affis?

But yes ladders were outside--curiously the same ladders last used to commit a crime 1.5 years ago at the house of the man whose ladders those were--Christo Menelao.

 

[shane13]

Shane, you have used one of my very favorite words here: schadenfreude. I noticed that you've used it before.

Are you saying that OP enjoyed seeing and/or hearing Reeva in pain because she ticked him off so badly?

That is what I think. I take that from his attitude post shooting: scurrying to get his support team in gear, the filtered, cleansed and contrived PR statements and above all, his abject arrogance and indignance at having been charged at all.

I have used Scahdenfreude for a year now here and elsewhere, and have explained my use numerous times, incoporating it in my theory with the driving events.

 

[patCee]

1. he killed/shot her,
2. the 4 bullet holes.
3. I inflicted the fatal gun shot wounds to Reeva.
4. I am an adult male, a professional athlete.
5. She had given me a present for Valentines Day.
6. Ladders were outside in the garden.
7. Stander arrived at the house.
8. Dr Stipp arrived at the house.

 

[BritsKate]

Yes it does when you have true experts. I have heard and read so much conflicting testimony, I am not sure what to believe about so-called arterial spurts, etc. I thought there was some debate on the blood spatter and what it meant. [See Michael Peterson trial "blood experts," e.g.]

I know the heart can keep beating after brain death, but seeing Reeva's head wound, I find it impossible to believe she was alive for the amount of time it took OP to go to the balcony, scream for help, put on his prosthetic legs, go back to the bathroom, beat in the toilet door, reach in to get the key, open the door with the key, check Reeva, sit with Reeva, pick her up, and walk through the bedroom door to the stairs, then carry her downstairs.

RBBM
Me too! Me too! For me, it's the biggest and best evidence against OP's account. In his version the earlier bangs are the gunshots (at about 3:12) that no witness hears - Johnson hears screaming at 3:12, witnesses who testified over hearing earlier bangs never say 3:12 - it's simply shortly after 3, he then runs all over the house screaming and shouting, and eventually breaks the door down at 3:17 (the State's gunshots). Then calls Stander to help lift her at 3:19, though he hasn't called netcare yet, and then he doesn't need Stander to help lift her.

But...before he carries her down he also runs downstairs to open the front door and then goes back upstairs, and damages the bedroom door he'd already gone through to get downstairs.

For Oscar's version to be true, Reeva would have to be alive, even if brain dead, for much longer than what is probable. (In the State's version, with gunshots at 3:17, Reeva is on the staircase at approximately 3:22 IIRC. By Oscar's version, he shot Reeva about 10 minutes before.)

 

[shane13]

1. he killed/shot her,
2. the 4 bullet holes.
3. I inflicted the fatal gun shot wounds to Reeva.
4. I am an adult male, a professional athlete.
5. She had given me a present for Valentines Day.
6. Ladders were outside in the garden.
7. Stander arrived at the house
8. Dr Stipp and Baba arrived at the house.

Good job Pat!

Not much provably true from lengthy affidavits!
Thank you all for participating!

 

[Giles]

I am not sure some of those are absolutely provable.

Where he kept his gun is in dispute.

Window open is likely true, but...

And where is crime scene contamination in affis?

But yes ladders were outside--curiously the same ladders last used to commit a crime 1.5 years ago at the house of the man whose ladders those were--Christo Menelao.

You're right. Where he kept the gun probably is in dispute, although there was a holster found wasn't there? And Sam Taylor said that's where he kept his firearm. I agree though, not enough evidence to support this statement.

I believe the Stipp's both testified to the window being open and Van Rensburg testified it was open on first walk through.

Crime scene contamination mentioned in point 14 of the Plea statement.