Oscar Pistorius Defense

[james83]

I wonder of all the times a woman is shot dead by her partner, how many times is it genuinely an accident?, and therefore what are the actual odd's Oscar is telling the truth before you even get to the total joke that is his story?.

 

[soozieqtips]

It's interesting that you mentioned the jeans. This in my view has the same effect, that if the jean story was fabricated it would again be detrimental to OP.
If we believe that OP wanted to make it more feasible that he didn't see Reeva ,the last place he wants to be hanging around is the bedroom, and certainly not facing the stereo.
From this position he would probably have more chance of seeing a mobile phone light from his vision towards the right.

The place where the jeans were used could also easily lead Nel to infer that OP would be in the path of Reeva, as there is no confirmation which side of the bed Reeva got out of.
The idea that OP should make it appear that he spent more time in the bedroom seems to me to be more of a hindrance than a help to his case, as it suggests he had more time to notice Reeva was missing.

BBM - Not when he insists he had his back to the bed all the time and therefore couldn't possibly have seen Reeva get out of it. Nel pointed out that OP would have had to turn slightly when he placed the small fan (according to the position OP said he put it in) and would have seen Reeva's phone light in his peripheral vision (this was after OP suggested she could have used it to guide her way to the toilet). But OP says 'no' to that too, he didn't see a light because he maintains his back was to the bed all the time. So it wasn't a hindrance to him from his own point of view because we're to believe he never saw the bed at all while he was bringing in however many fans to go with his however many accounts of what happened, and so the extra time spent having his back to the bed gives Reeva more time to leave it without him noticing.

 

[Ncl1968]

The aftermath bothers me if I accidentally shot my partner through a toilet door I would upon discovering my error check to see if she was alive don't forget I had phone on me as well as hers then called ambulance whilst holding her I think the cricket bat would have been used to tear us apart cos I would be in bits holding her till a figure of authority came. ..night calls to friends no calls to lawyers no dragging a corpse out of a crime scene no black bag and ropes at the ready no hidding the phone I was using no tampering with crime scene... you get where this Is going???
Yes guilty on all counts

 

[lithgow1]

~snipped~

BIB, yes, that is exactly how it comes across and his version sounds so unbelievable simply because of the sheer lengths he went to to keep on elaborating on every little thing in order to try and prove he never once looked in that direction at any time during the course of that evening (after the point where he claims Reeva said "can't you sleep, Baba?" ) Nobody who was doing all the things that OP claims he was doing at the time (moving fans, closing curtains/blinds, picking up jeans to cover up an LED light,etc) would keep their back to the bed for the whole of that time, that just complete nonsense and that isn't the way that people move around .. it is so completely unnatural to behave in such a manner as to be totally untrue.

True. Plus even when Nel tried to get him to concede that RS must have gotten up and left the room after he closed the curtains, plunging the room into darkness, or else he would of seen her, Pistorius kept insisting that she could have gone anytime after he got off the bed as from that moment on (until he heard the window) he never once glanced towards the bed or the hallway. It could be possible I suppose but nonetheless it just doesnt ring true, as you say.

 

[BritsKate]

I wonder of all the times a woman is shot dead by her partner, how many times is it genuinely an accident?, and therefore what are the actual odd's Oscar is telling the truth before you even get to the total joke that is his story?.

That made me curious too...this is not specific to intimate partner homicide by firearm though:

Our study found a reduction in female homicide which is consistent with a decline in overall homicides in South Africa, but the decline was less among intimate femicides. Intimate partner violence in now the leading cause of death of women homicide victims with 56% of female homicides being committed by an intimate partner. Despite the decline, South Africa’s intimate femicide rate in 2009 is more than double the rate in the United States. Furthermore our intimate femicide rate is most likely an under-estimate because in over 20% of murders no perpetrator was identified.

http://www.mrc.ac.za/policybriefs/everyeighthours.pdf

I also found it interesting only 33% had a history of physical violence (based on previous SAPS dockets). This is compared to an average of 60-70% of intimate partner homicides in the US. This may be a difference in recording measures or could highlight an ever greater reticence to inform authorities of intimate partner violence.

 

[PPKik]

Once the initial crime scene photos have been taken, the police need to move items to check for hidden evidence. It would be very unusual for the police not to do so. It is standard practice.

That makes sense and I don't disagree with you about cops needing to check for hidden evidence. The photos I've seen aren't labeled that way that I can see. Are there time and date stamps that we can't see? They seem to be almost random to me.

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

Hello All,

I am under the impression OP didn't actually go out onto the balcony--when Nel questioned him about the balcony and the fans, OP tried to explain he wasn't out on the balcony, kind of half in and half out if that makes sense? (Any member is free to correct me if I'm wrong on that). I can see where he would struggle trying to lift a fan in that position especially if it was turned on. Trying to balance a fan when moving/lifting is hard for even an able-bodied person, especially if it is running. He would have had to have been focussed on that fan while at the same time trying to move backwards to position the fan indoors. Reeva, in my opinion, had more than enough time to slip out on the left side of the bed unnoticed!

 

[DebinGA]

Reeva's Twitter site: https://twitter.com/reevasteenkamp

If the times posted are SA time, it shows Reeva was tweeting quite a bit between 3:30-4:00 a.m. on the morning of Feb. 13. Didn't OP claim when he woke up and Reeva spoke to him at 3:00, that she was awake in bed and actively doing something (like texting/tweeting/reading something on her phone) ... as, it turns out, she'd done at the same time the day before? Reeva may have actually said, "Can't sleep, baba" the previous day. Impossible to imagine her fully awake and OP not mentioning the intruder to her.

 

[kittychi]

Reeva's Twitter site: https://twitter.com/reevasteenkamp

If the times posted are SA time, it shows Reeva was tweeting quite a bit between 3:30-4:00 a.m. on the morning of Feb. 13. Didn't OP claim when he woke up and Reeva spoke to him at 3:00, that she was awake in bed and actively doing something (like texting/tweeting/reading something on her phone) ... as, it turns out, she'd done at the same time the day before? Reeva may have actually said, "Can't sleep, baba" the previous day. Impossible to imagine her fully awake and OP not mentioning the intruder to her.

Yes...IMO this is exactly the type of thing he did to have some truth intermingled with his contrived story.

 

[BritsKate]

That makes sense and I don't disagree with you about cops needing to check for hidden evidence. The photos I've seen aren't labeled that way that I can see. Are there time and date stamps that we can't see? They seem to be almost random to me.

You're still working on videos, right? Expect almost an entire (very tedious) day devoted entirely to time stamps in your near future.

There were two people taking photos IIRC. Colonel Motha and Van Staden. Van Staden is the 'official' photographer. As such, his camera would have had the timestamp and date verified by the clerk. The court was supplied with the complete metadata as well. The original crime scene photos, before anything was moved, are album one afaik.

 

[BritsKate]

Reeva's Twitter site: https://twitter.com/reevasteenkamp

If the times posted are SA time, it shows Reeva was tweeting quite a bit between 3:30-4:00 a.m. on the morning of Feb. 13. Didn't OP claim when he woke up and Reeva spoke to him at 3:00, that she was awake in bed and actively doing something (like texting/tweeting/reading something on her phone) ... as, it turns out, she'd done at the same time the day before? Reeva may have actually said, "Can't sleep, baba" the previous day. Impossible to imagine her fully awake and OP not mentioning the intruder to her.

Wouldn't it be February 14th, after midnight?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Sorry, I haven't been able to track it down. I am fairly sure it was Dixon during his time on the stand. It was certainly fairly recent. I shall have to listen to his testimony again to double-check, perhaps tomorrow.

Well it looks as though my memory failed me. It was Nel asking Oscar whether he would be able to see Reeva in the passage. This is from Lisa's blog (I hope it is OK to link it. It is such a brilliant piece of work).

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014...latedposts_origin=859&relatedposts_position=0

"He asks him Oscar if he was in the bedroom facing the passage and Reeva walked down the passage, would he have seen her? Oscar says yes, he would have seen a silhouette."

 

[soozieqtips]

Hello All,

I am under the impression OP didn't actually go out onto the balcony--when Nel questioned him about the balcony and the fans, OP tried to explain he wasn't out on the balcony, kind of half in and half out if that makes sense? (Any member is free to correct me if I'm wrong on that). I can see where he would struggle trying to lift a fan in that position especially if it was turned on. Trying to balance a fan when moving/lifting is hard for even an able-bodied person, especially if it is running. He would have had to have been focussed on that fan while at the same time trying to move backwards to position the fan indoors. Reeva, in my opinion, had more than enough time to slip out on the left side of the bed unnoticed!

OP changed his story from going out on the balcony to not going out on the balcony. According to Nel, OP would have had to have turned slightly to put the fan where he claims he put it. If he'd have turned, he'd have seen Reeva's cell phone light (which OP said she could have used to light the way to the toilet). But Reeva knew OP was awake, so why didn't she switch the light on? Who chooses to use a cell phone as a light when there's an actual light to switch on and when your partner's already up and busy with fans and what not. Don't forget that this window-sliding frame-hitting noise OP heard above the sound of the fan (which would have been right near his face) was not acknowledged by Reeva, and she would have heard it much louder than him - and yet he didn't think it strange at all that she hadn't said 'What's that'?. His story is simply outlandish and his versions have changed with the wind.

 

[lithgow1]

Hello All,

I am under the impression OP didn't actually go out onto the balcony--when Nel questioned him about the balcony and the fans, OP tried to explain he wasn't out on the balcony, kind of half in and half out if that makes sense? (Any member is free to correct me if I'm wrong on that). I can see where he would struggle trying to lift a fan in that position especially if it was turned on. Trying to balance a fan when moving/lifting is hard for even an able-bodied person, especially if it is running. He would have had to have been focussed on that fan while at the same time trying to move backwards to position the fan indoors. Reeva, in my opinion, had more than enough time to slip out on the left side of the bed unnoticed!

He changed it from going out on to the balcony (bail application) to the fans being in the doorway, basically on the 'dividing line' between inside and out, so he didn't need to leave the room to bring them in. The State's claim is the change was needed as he couldn't have heard the window open had he been out on the balcony.

You are probably right that she could have left the room during that time but I still find it hard to believe he wouldn't have heard/noticed/'sensed' that - it's not a big room. And of course it depends on whether an individual believes his basic story to be true or a completely made up scenario intended to try and disguise the fact that he murdered his girlfriend.

 

[DebinGA]

Wouldn't it be February 14th, after midnight?

3:56 AM - 13 Feb 2013, then her last one was 10:41 a.m. 13 Feb 2013 ... but I don't know if that's SA time.

 

[BritsKate]

He changed it from going out on to the balcony (bail application) to the fans being in the doorway, basically on the 'dividing line' between inside and out, so he didn't need to leave the room to bring them in. The State's claim is the change was needed as he couldn't have heard the window open had he been out on the balcony.

You are probably right that she could have left the room during that time but I still find it hard to believe he wouldn't have heard/noticed/'sensed' that - it's not a big room. And of course it depends on whether an individual believes his basic story to be true or a completely made up scenario intended to try and disguise the fact that he murdered his girlfriend.

This is where the new duvet debacle came into play too. According to him, he got up, noticed Reeva's legs under the duvet (which wasn't on him). Moved the fans, now plural, which were no longer out on the balcony, before picking jeans up to cover the blue LED while the red one didn't bother him, and then heard the noise in the bathroom/window being slid open/window slamming open against the frame. He drops jeans and whispers/speaks softly for Reeva to get down and call police. Nearing the intruder though he starts screaming and shouting (in the passageway) but is silent in the bathroom so the intruder can't identify his location, after screaming for the intruder to get out, but doesn't know if the intruder is fleeing through a closed door and doesn't allow any time for an intruder to flee anyway before opening fire.

After shooting, OP is insistent the duvet is on the bed and was moved onto the floor by investigators before they knew his version of events.

Yep, it's plausible in all its varying versions. :banghead:

 

[Forensics]

When the trial started I must admit I hoped that OP would be found to be credible in his version of events, after all I had long since admired his determination and prowess in the sporting field. That was virtually all I knew of the man. I must also confess that IMO the prosecution's case was not as powerful as I had expected it to be - no 'smoking gun' but there was circumstantial evidence and witness evidence that started laying out the scene, like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Then came OP's evidence. His demeanour, responses, elaborations and evasions raised even more doubts. Followed by a 'not so expert' expert which made me feel the defence was scraping the bottom of the barrel in finding credible experts willing to testify to the veracity of OP's account. So I am know leaning very much to the murder side - either of intentionally killing Reeva or intentionally killing an intruder. It has been amply demonstrated that Oscar was very reactive to circumstances and very happy to use his gun whenever he felt like it. The opportunity of shooting a zombie stopper at a human rather than a watermelon and (under the cover of claiming self defence) would have proven irresistible (IMO). I must admit however, that I am leaning towards the murder of Reeva, when taking into account defence witnesses. However, the DT has not finalised its case and my mind may change yet again. Still more twists and turns to come BUT at this stage I believe it's murder.

 

[lithgow1]

As a kind of follow on from your post Forensics I admit I thought his story sounded very dodgy right from the start and haven't seen anything to change my mind. It's not that I wanted to pre-judge him, though it must sound like that, it's just the 'version' never really rang 'true'.

One thing I will give him is that the strength and determination to conquer obstacles that got him to where it did athletically seemed evident on the stand. Despite all the tears and so on he did withstand that cross-examination, which would have made many people, myself included, crumble, but whereas that determination was once an admirable quality it now seems sinister IMO.

 

[shane13]

I find that odd too. He claimed that it was the fans blowing in his face that prevented him from hearing RS leave the room but you would think it would be very annoying to have a fan blowing right in your face as you are moving it. At the least you think you would swivel around a bit so it wasn't blowing directly at you. Yet another odd OP moment I guess.

Of course it's another improbable thing.

The rapidly rotating fan would have its own angular momentum, and it is a dangerous thing and a difficult thing to move the large fan while it is on!

IMO any genuine person actually moving such a fan would have first turned it off (and later turned it back on.)

Of course if it were off, he woudn't have the excuse that he couldn't hear Reeva...

 

[patCee]

i have a feeling it was to gain time to make his alibi stand up. Somewhere in the proceedings it has been stated that there was a degree of light at the end of the corridor leading from the bathroom to the connecting corridor to the bedroom (ambient light through the bathroom windows). He needed there to be enough time for rs to have disappeared round the corner towards the bathroom to make his alibi work. Though i cannot remember exactly where /when this information (the ambient light) appeared, i think it was probably stated by one of the dt witnesses, possibly dixon.

This is the photo with the bathroom window light reflected at the end of the corridor. Sorry can't help with the actual testimony though.