Oscar Pistorius Defense

[Madeleine74]

None of the watching stuff or their sex life changes the basics of the crime itself. I realize it's salacious and fun to speculate about but at the end of the day, we don't know what all occurred in that house except for the fact that OP shot RS 4 times and came up with a story to try and explain that somehow this gun magically went off, seemingly by itself, shooting at an alleged intruder that was not really there. The bullets were magical too--they just spit out of that gun and found Reeva in the loo. Poor Oscar was just nonplussed at all this happening.

 

[shane13]

Back to square one on the Oscar Speak/Oscar Think game board. :abnormal:

Yes, only Oscar knows...
And Oscar-Speak is also a metaphor, a crack from which we mortals can see into his world, but only through this tiny crack in his Oscar-World.

Alas it's just like my year-old theory that he probably made a small crack in the door, but large enough for him to see the horror (to us) that he intended to inflict. And likewise that she could see him seeing her...

But Oscar-Speak is also the language of mockery.

The first mockery was Oscar mocking--as Dr Burger brilliantly deduced--Reeva's desperate screams for help.

But with a phone and ammo and memory stick being given to Oscar-team at the crime scene by top cops, at a deeper level we are all being mocked by the things that run deep in this case.

The last being what I have hinted at that those of us who know things deeply, this case provides a crack into the real nature of things on this planet.

 

[toevlugsoord]

For those of you eager to know who is next on the witness stand, here are some news speculations:

Yahoo! News:
http://news.yahoo.com/pistorius-trial-whats-ahead-143831583.html

"In an attempt to rebuild its case, the defense may call Johan Stander next, the manager at the gated community where Pistorius lived and who was the first person Pistorius called after the shooting and the first on the scene with his daughter. The defense wants to show that Pistorius' reaction on realizing that he had shot Steenkamp was one of panic at a terrible error.

Also, chief defense lawyer Barry Roux said some neighbors will testify and cast doubt on prosecutors' claims that Steenkamp screamed before the shots, indicating a fight between the couple."

ABC News:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/oscar-pistorius-trial-resumes-break/story?id=23583310

"It is expected that ballistics expert Tom "Wollie" Wolmarans, will be the next witness to testify. Wolmarans, a retired SAPS forensics expert, is widely recognised as one of the best in the field."

 

[homegirl]

Hi Homegirl and thanks for the clarifying.

Attribute my questions to my curious mind.

I personally think the text is significant as it was little less than a month before Reeva was killed when she would have texted with Oscar about shouting at him and he received it playfully.


As to speculation, I brought that up myself as there seems to be a lot of speculation here and I was told that is the way this forum rolls, people speculate about facts and theories, so why would it be wrong to speculate about that text in particular?

Thanks

Carmelita, I think I said that badly. I love the speculation and have done my share of it. Re-reading what I wrote, I kind of sound like a scold. I didn't mean it that way. For some reason, I just felt a little bit bad about posting it. Maybe I have an inner prude lurking about.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Rape is usually quite evident at the time of autopsy. I can't imagine that if true this would not have been brought up by Nel. You might not be able to see traumatic changes from initially consensual relations that got out of hand.

For absolutely no reason except my own hunch, I don't think they had 'sex' that evening, jmo.

Did the autopsy reveal if they had sex that night. IMO - if their relationship was sexual (which it probably was), it would be highly likely that a young couple in love in the early stage of their relationship would have had sex on Valentine's night. The absence of sex could indicate that Reeva and/or OP were not feeling positively disposed toward each other at the time because they were, or had been having, a particularly nasty argument.

 

[BritsKate]

Hello Shane,
I agree on many of these points, especially

BIB1- Although potentially disturbing, I think the Steenkamp's stand a much better chance at uncovering the truth had they supported the disclosure of the autopsy results. It is quite possible that they want to conceal the nature of any sexual contact that evening but I just can't see Nel leaving it out...unless at the family's request or if stipulated.

BIB2 - Never occurred to me that they had been on so few dates but considering when they reportedly became involved this is possible. Things could have also moved pretty quickly like a lot of relationships. I wonder how many times she spent the night at his place.

I personally, think it wasreally early for Reeva to tell him she loved him...jmo

There is a lot of debate whether Oscar and Reeva's relationship was abusive. I think there's enough to suggest emotional abuse. One of the biggest red flags very early on in *most* abusive relationships is the relationship moving really, really fast. Remember, Oscar put in an offer to buy a house in Johannesburg because he was 'bowled over' by Reeva.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Oscar-wanted-to-move-to-Joburg-20140407

 

[crasshopper]

Did the autopsy reveal if they had sex that night?

Hi there, I hope my post didn't imply any knowledge about the report.
Unfortunately, the autopsy results are not, and possibly will never be, available. The judge also severely limited reporting/ tweeting of testimony regarding the autopsy findings, much to many WS'ers disappointment.

The case is already tawdry enough and as Madeleine and others have stated and I agree with, it really has no bearing on the crux of the case.


...maybe the topic should have its own thread , jk

 

[Carmelita]

There is a lot of debate whether Oscar and Reeva's relationship was abusive. I think there's enough to suggest emotional abuse. One of the biggest red flags very early on in *most* abusive relationships is the relationship moving really, really fast. Remember, Oscar put in an offer to buy a house in Johannesburg because he was 'bowled over' by Reeva.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Oscar-wanted-to-move-to-Joburg-20140407

I do agree that most abusive relationships move very fast but I don't think this relationship was moving faster than most couples today. Oscar was interviewed shortly before Reevas death and he said that he was not in a serious relationship (that is not verbatim).


Something for thought, BritsKate, as I’m sure you are aware many in the mental health field believe that when someone suffers an emotional trauma that person stops growing emotionally until the trauma is addressed/healed and stays the emotional age of when the trauma occurred.

I have read quite a bit that Oscar was devastated by his mum’s sudden death perhaps it would be interesting from a mental health standpoint to look at Oscar as a 15 year old, IMO, his behavior (not the killing of Reeva) but his overall personality makes a little more sense in that light.

Just a late night thought.

 

[Viper]

Hello Shane,
I agree on many of these points, especially

BIB1- Although potentially disturbing, I think the Steenkamp's stand a much better chance at uncovering the truth had they supported the disclosure of the autopsy results. It is quite possible that they want to conceal the nature of any sexual contact that evening but I just can't see Nel leaving it out...unless at the family's request or if stipulated.

BIB2 - Never occurred to me that they had been on so few dates but considering when they reportedly became involved this is possible. Things could have also moved pretty quickly like a lot of relationships. I wonder how many times she spent the night at his place.

I, personally, think it was really early for Reeva to tell him she loved him...jmo

Regarding why the Steenkamp family did not want Reeva's autopsy report released to the public... Why do you believe that the Steenkamp family cares more about protecting their daughter's fidelity over protecting her privacy after her being murdered? Such an uncaring thing to assert, IMO.

So few dates? Maybe 10? According to Shane? If so then why did he murder her? Assuming of course that you believe that it was murder and not him accidentally killing Reeva instead of Mr. Armed Intruder.

 

[crasshopper]

There is a lot of debate whether Oscar and Reeva's relationship was abusive. I think there's enough to suggest emotional abuse. One of the biggest red flags very early on in *most* abusive relationships is the relationship moving really, really fast. Remember, Oscar put in an offer to buy a house in Johannesburg because he was 'bowled over' by Reeva.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Oscar-wanted-to-move-to-Joburg-20140407

I agree with this wholeheartedly and it is too bad Reeva didn't run and never look back the minute his behavior or words "scared" her, which they did.

(Not that she bears any responsibility for her death.)

 

[Interested Bystander]

Well, the date is one reason why it might get people talking but I'm sure it's a typo (not yours, IB).

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[crasshopper]

Regarding why the Steenkamp family did not want Reeva's autopsy report released to the public... Why do you believe that the Steenkamp family cares more about protecting their daughter's fidelity over protecting her privacy after her being murdered? Such an uncaring thing to assert, IMO.

So few dates? Maybe 10? According to Shane? If so then why did he murder her? Assuming of course that you believe that it was murder and not him accidentally killing Reeva instead of Mr. Armed Intruder.

Viper, I honestly have no idea why. The latter was merely speculation on my part after considering some other posts. Earlier I stated it was my hunch they weren't intimate that last evening.

As for the number of dates, maybe Shane meant the number of times they were seen out together? IDK.

What I do know is that we both agree OP murdered her !

 

[crasshopper]

I do agree that most abusive relationships move very fast but I don't think this relationship was moving faster than most couples today. Oscar was interviewed shortly before Reevas death and he said that he was not in a serious relationship (that is not verbatim)
.

rbsm

RE: the bolded bit -

What a 'public' figure admits to in an interview is not reliable, imo. They often deny things or try to throw off the press to maintain their privacy.

 

[Viper]

Viper, I honestly have no idea why. The latter was merely speculation on my part after considering some other posts. Earlier I stated it was my hunch they weren't intimate that last evening.

As for the number of dates, maybe Shane meant the number of times they were seen out together? IDK.

What I do know is that we both agree OP murdered her !

In fact, this is what you said with regards to why the Steenkamp family wanted to keep Reeva's autopsy report private:

It is quite possible that they want to conceal the nature of any sexual contact that evening

 

[TorisMom003]

rbsm

RE: the bolded bit -

What a 'public' figure admits to in an interview is not reliable, imo. They often deny things or try to throw off the press to maintain their privacy.

Especially one that wanted to keep his "options" open.

MOO

 

[Interested Bystander]

There is a lot of debate whether Oscar and Reeva's relationship was abusive. I think there's enough to suggest emotional abuse. One of the biggest red flags very early on in *most* abusive relationships is the relationship moving really, really fast. Remember, Oscar put in an offer to buy a house in Johannesburg because he was 'bowled over' by Reeva.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Oscar-wanted-to-move-to-Joburg-20140407

I absolutely agree with your conclusion re emotional abuse. Early days in the relationship and he had starting controlling and belittling her. Classic. This relationship would (had her death not intervened) have run into big trouble in the not too distant future IMO.

Re the Jo'berg house, I have a feeling he was looking to buy a house there long before he met Reeva. I felt this was OP 'embroidering' his story once again.


Pistorius's home on the market since 2011
2013-02-19 12:19

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistoriuss-home-on-the-market-since-2011-20130219

 

[Carmelita]

Especially one that wanted to keep his "options" open.

MOO

s


And that is what I think is the more likely scenario. Reeva was one of many beauties on Oscar's buffet, she even mentioned in one of her texts that she was not one of his *****es, This indicates to me that for Oscar it was a casual relationship for Reeva it was the beginning of a long term love affair.

 

[DebinGA]

No romantic plans for Valentine's, no gift, and not even a card must have been very eye-opening to Reeva.

 

[Viper]

s


And that is what I think is the more likely scenario. Reeva was one of many beauties on Oscar's buffet, she even mentioned in one of her texts that she was not one of his *****es, This indicates to me that for Oscar it was a casual relationship for Reeva it was the beginning of a long term love affair.

Pitiful post, IMO. The buffet reference was particularly reprehensible.

Good night.

 

[TorisMom003]

I absolutely agree with your conclusion re emotional abuse. Early days in the relationship and he had starting controlling and belittling her. Classic. This relationship would have run into big trouble in the not too distant future IMO.

Re the Jo'berg house, I have a feeling he was looking to buy a house there long before he met Reeva. I felt this was OP 'embroidering' his story once again.

OP confused himself during his cross with Nel about the house in Jo'burg. At one point he said that he had purchased a home there and that he and Reeva were looking at interior decorating things for that home.