Oscar Pistorius Defense

[lisasalinger]

there was also a reference to two calls made to henke on the day of the 13th [reference made on here - i have no idea where these phone records are accessible]. which seems another coincidence, considering like you say op referred to not being in contact.

I have a list of the calls/GPRS activity that was reported in court by Moller on Day 15 of the trial:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-15-state-rests/

Moller did give out a few of the names (not all) that were tied to some of the numbers on OP's records. This call below was identified as Henrich Pistorius. I noticed his number ended in 7775. (I don't know what the "deco" stands for?)

04:01:38 – Outgoing call to 7775 (Deco – Heinrich Pistorius) – 54 seconds

When I was reviewing OP's other calls from that day, I noticed two other calls for the phone number ending in 7775 at:

17:56:51 – Incoming call from 7775 – 307 seconds – Mustek George Rd tower (OP was on his way home)

18:47:59 – Outgoing call to 7775 – 56 seconds – tower closest to Oscar’s (OP was at his house)

 

[Murphys_Law]

OP CANNOT REMEMBER......

*Turning the alarm off before he carried Reeva down the stairs.
*Telling Stipp that he had mistaken Reeva for an intruder.
*If he or the police first climbed up the stairs at the crime scene.
*Firing four shots.
*Having his finger on the trigger at Tasha's restaurant when he was
handling it.
*What happened to the ejected bullet/cartridge at the Tasha shooting incident.
*His Iphone code.
*Which friend he called for help after being shot at whilst he was driving.
*Speaking to security immediately after the shooting.
*Why he told Security everything was fine (after he was phoned back by them).
*The location of the duvet.
*When he turned the light on in the bathroom.
*Which switch his fan was plugged into.
*]The song they were listening from the Kendrick Lamar album whilst in the car ("***** don't kill my vibe).
*When his father put the ammunition in the safe.
*Much about the trip to Vaal he and Samantha drove down to meet friends (gun through sunroof incident).
*Where his firearm was when he was on the boat (incident above).
*If the firearm was 'one-up' while they were on the boat.
*When he last saw his father (courtesy of Shane13)

....there are much more I am sure. My apologies if anyone has posted these before.

*Whether Reeva knows how to work the alarm
*Reeva's birthday

 

[shane13]

While reviewing Cpt Mangena direct testimony I came across a shocking statement by Nel. He is an extremely intelligent man, with a supreme command of the English language thus I cannot accept that it was a mistake, or slip of the tongue.

Context: Paragraph 18 of Cpt Magenas report contains ALL of his opinions and conclusions. Nel is prompting Mangena to reveal his findings only as it relates to subparagraph 18.1 of the this report section.

Nel: In paragraph 18 we deal with all of the opinions and conclusions that you have drawn from everything you have had to look at.

Mangena: That's right my Lady.

Nel: And your opinion in paragraph 18.1 was what?

Mangena: My Lady, in paragraph 18.1 my opinion was that there were 4 shots fired and all four bullets perforated the toilette door into the toilette cubicle.

Nel: And one hit someone.

If Nel, as I believe, says what he means, and means what he says, then that opens up a whole new set of possibilities

lease:

Please listen to the first 2 minutes ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A31z0aNCNHs

Please tell me this is NOT what said.

Well he did say that.

Could have been a simple error.
I have heard other remarkable slips or errors from Nel throughout.
Some may again be simple errors, others I am not so sure of.

 

[crasshopper]

While reviewing Cpt Mangena direct testimony I came across a shocking statement by Nel. He is an extremely intelligent man, with a supreme command of the English language thus I cannot accept that it was a mistake, or slip of the tongue.


RBSM
Nel: In paragraph 18 we deal with all of the opinions and conclusions that you have drawn from everything you have had to look at.

Mangena: That's right my Lady.

Nel: And your opinion in paragraph 18.1 was what?

Mangena: My Lady, in paragraph 18.1 my opinion was that there were 4 shots fired and all four bullets perforated the toilette door into the toilette cubicle.

Nel: And one hit someone.


...

Please tell me this is NOT what said.

Slip of the tongue imo.

 

[shane13]

I am not an atty.

But I think I know a bit how it works.

Nel there may just have needed to say something to cue his witness for his lengthy response in giving a lot of his findings at that time.

It is true that 1 bullet did hit Reeva. Of course several more did.
But maybe all that happened here is Nel neeeded to say anything like that as a cue for Mangena to start his recitation.

 

[lisasalinger]

I have the PT version saved, and have done the photoshop work on the final version. The first photo is my recreation of the final position. The legs are not really right. They wouldn't stay where I have it positioned them without muscle tone, but I do think that she came to rest on the magazine rack because of the undisturbed blood pool. I never know what to do with the left arm, but she would have had it shielding her head as she fell onto the bowl/ per Mangena, so I just kind of flop it down. i have the right arm hanging down on the left side of the bowl. Now that you have me thinking about it, my position might have her lower arm in the blood there on the left. I haven't seen a very clear photo of the blood on the left, but What I have seen looks undisturbed also.

I went back into the 3 #D program to try out your thoughts about position. The Pt version is much easier to work with, because it could have happened in the reality world. The second photo shows my attempt at posing the figure using your ideas. Again the legs are not right and I lifted the left arm out of the way so that the right one could be seen. You have to use some visualization to decide what her right arm would do at the break, but your guess is as good as mine as to her exact body position. Only OP knows and he's not telling.

View attachment 43091

View attachment 43092

Thanks! Your top photo is how I envision her, but with the left arm hanging at her side, not across the toilet. She wouldn't really need either arm to hold her head up on the bowl, as her lower body is on top of the rack, giving her support (I think).

Here are a few photos looking directly down at the toilet bowl, giving you a better view of the blood on the magazine rack side of the toilet.

 

[crasshopper]

I have the PT version saved, and have done the photoshop work on the final version.

View attachment 43091

View attachment 43092

These are excellent, thank you. They really help with conceptualization.

poor Reeva

 

[sorrell skye]

Your video is of Ms Stipp which is before what I am talking about on March 25.
Indeed the title of your video does not list the date--leaves out the month.

If there are times that you refer to on your video, please state.

But again that is not the correct date or video. Nel was well done with earwitnesses IIrC before he made that stipulation.

But best if you state the date of your video, becasue it is not on the YT proper.

ETA: And 16 days from Feb. 14 yields feb 30 for the handover--which has nothing to do with when the stipulation occurred at trail.

BBM

February doesn't have 30 days. February has 28 days in a regular year, 29 in a leap year (2013 wasn't a leap year), but never 30 days.

I've gone back and looked at the trial thread discussions on March 25.

Zwiebel's first posts pertaining to the trial goings-on were time-stamped at 2:35 a.m., 2:36 a.m., 2:37 a.m., and at 2:39 a.m.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25-27, Day 17

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25-27, Day 17

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25-27, Day 17

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25-27, Day 17


Zwiebel was online here and typing as court resumed on the morning of March 25th. Her first post included the phrase "court's in" - which indicates that she was following court proceedings from the moment live court convened.

I've also reviewed several pages of other poster's comments, and I can't find any reference to mysterious "stipulations" between the PT & the DT regarding the 5th phone. I'm inclined to believe that if anything of this nature had occurred, at least one member would have caught it and would have posted about it in real time.

One member was posting Barry Bateman's live courtroom tweets, as well, and none of those tweets mentioned any mysterious "stipulations" between the PT & the DT regarding the 5th phone.

To date, I've been unable to find any evidence that this mysterious "stipulation" event occurred.

IMO, prosecutor Gerrie Nel has been doing his damnedest to prosecute Oscar Pistorius. I have no doubt that he wants to secure a conviction on the charges. I don't believe for a minute that Nel is involved in a conspiracy to suppress evidence, and, frankly, I find the repeated allegation that he would do so to be a reckless, unfounded accusation against Nel's character and reputation as one of SA's most ethical, respected prosecutors.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I have a list of the calls/GPRS activity that was reported in court by Moller on Day 15 of the trial:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-15-state-rests/

Moller did give out a few of the names (not all) that were tied to some of the numbers on OP's records. This call below was identified as Henrich Pistorius. I noticed his number ended in 7775. (I don't know what the "deco" stands for?)

04:01:38 – Outgoing call to 7775 (Deco – Heinrich Pistorius) – 54 seconds

When I was reviewing OP's other calls from that day, I noticed two other calls for the phone number ending in 7775 at:

17:56:51 – Incoming call from 7775 – 307 seconds – Mustek George Rd tower (OP was on his way home)

18:47:59 – Outgoing call to 7775 – 56 seconds – tower closest to Oscar’s (OP was at his house)

thanks for the information.

 

[kittychi]

OP CANNOT REMEMBER......

*Turning the alarm off before he carried Reeva down the stairs.
*Telling Stipp that he had mistaken Reeva for an intruder.
*If he or the police first climbed up the stairs at the crime scene.
*Firing four shots.
*Having his finger on the trigger at Tasha's restaurant when he was
handling it.
*What happened to the ejected bullet/cartridge at the Tasha shooting incident.
*His Iphone code.
*Which friend he called for help after being shot at whilst he was driving.
*Speaking to security immediately after the shooting.
*Why he told Security everything was fine (after he was phoned back by them).
*The location of the duvet.
*When he turned the light on in the bathroom.
*Which switch his fan was plugged into.
*]The song they were listening from the Kendrick Lamar album whilst in the car ("***** don't kill my vibe).
*When his father put the ammunition in the safe.
*Much about the trip to Vaal he and Samantha drove down to meet friends (gun through sunroof incident).
*Where his firearm was when he was on the boat (incident above).
*If the firearm was 'one-up' while they were on the boat.
*When he last saw his father (courtesy of Shane13)

....there are much more I am sure. My apologies if anyone has posted these before.

*Uttering the words "zombie-stopper"

 

[shane13]

The one thing you are right about of course is that it comes to March 2.
Something we went over before--a trivial matter.

That this happened is also proven because this was when the world found out it was 16 days. The length of time that DT had the phone was indeterminate before March 25. The cat cannot be put back in the bag.

And the strangeness is on record. It is easy to find that at BH, Roux first cited the 5th phone illegally taken from the crime scene.

And the record is clear--there have been no charges and no investigation from Nel and PT and NPA, and 3 judges.

http://news.yahoo.com/police-offer-confused-testimony-pistorius-case-163838561--oly.html

"Police also found two iPhones in the bathroom and two BlackBerrys in the bedroom, Botha said, adding that none had been used to phone for help. Roux later suggested that a fifth phone, not collected by the police, was used by Pistorius to make calls for a hospital and help. After the hearing, Roux told journalists that Pistorius' defense team had the phone, but did not elaborate."

It's quite clear that the phone was taken/given to DT from the crime scene, and again also clear there have been no charges or investigation.

 

[kittychi]

I tend to agree with this. And if IIRC it was the Daily Star in UK that published this.
I had dismissed it too.

But I thought I heard Baba or someone mention this at trial? About a car with engine running.
This is why I cited it above.

The other "rumor" was that the doors were open on the running car. But as Sorrell says, there has been no mention of these things since.

You have to wonder where these things originate

 

[Forensics]

OP CANNOT REMEMBER....MOST RECENT LIST

*Turning the alarm off before he carried Reeva down the stairs.
*Telling Stipp that he had mistaken Reeva for an intruder.
*If he or the police first climbed up the stairs at the crime scene.
*Firing four shots.
*Having his finger on the trigger at Tasha's restaurant when he was
handling it.
*What happened to the ejected bullet/cartridge at the Tasha shooting incident.
*His Iphone code.
*Which friend he called for help after being shot at whilst he was driving.
*Speaking to security immediately after the shooting.
*Why he told Security everything was fine (after he was phoned back by them).
*The location of the duvet.
*When he turned the light on in the bathroom.
*Which switch his fan was plugged into.
*]The song they were listening from the Kendrick Lamar album whilst in the car ("***** don't kill my vibe).
*When his father put the ammunition in the safe.
*Much about the trip to Vaal he and Samantha drove down to meet friends (gun through sunroof incident).
*Where his firearm was when he was on the boat (incident above).
*If the firearm was 'one-up' while they were on the boat.
* When he last saw his father (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* reeva's birthdate (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* what year his house was painted (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* speaking to the netcare operator (but remembers what they told him to do) (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* going to the pantry to get tape and bags and things [or whether ms stander went to get them (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
*That the boating accident happened after sunset. (courtesy of Crasshopper)
*Uttering the words "zombie-stopper" (courtesy of Kitty-chi)



lease:...THAT MUST BE EVERYTHING SURELY....lease:

 

[homegirl]

Thanks! Your top photo is how I envision her, but with the left arm hanging at her side, not across the toilet. She wouldn't really need either arm to hold her head up on the bowl, as her lower body is on top of the rack, giving her support (I think).

Here are a few photos looking directly down at the toilet bowl, giving you a better view of the blood on the magazine rack side of the toilet.

Thanks for the photos. I just watched a snip of Mangena's testimony from the embedded video posted by Murphys Law. I think that I have been dropping her left arm too late into the fall. I probably have her body twists and angles off too, but it is close enough. I did it as a visual aid to test both PT and DT versions, and to see if OP's story was possible. NOT

 

[homegirl]

These are excellent, thank you. They really help with conceptualization.

poor Reeva

Thanks crasshopper. I might post The PT recreation on the prosecution thread if I have the time and the heart for it. Yes, Poor Reva and her poor devastated family.BBM

 

[shane13]

OP CANNOT REMEMBER....MOST RECENT LIST

*Turning the alarm off before he carried Reeva down the stairs.
*Telling Stipp that he had mistaken Reeva for an intruder.
*If he or the police first climbed up the stairs at the crime scene.
*Firing four shots.
*Having his finger on the trigger at Tasha's restaurant when he was
handling it.
*What happened to the ejected bullet/cartridge at the Tasha shooting incident.
*His Iphone code.
*Which friend he called for help after being shot at whilst he was driving.
*Speaking to security immediately after the shooting.
*Why he told Security everything was fine (after he was phoned back by them).
*The location of the duvet.
*When he turned the light on in the bathroom.
*Which switch his fan was plugged into.
*]The song they were listening from the Kendrick Lamar album whilst in the car ("***** don't kill my vibe).
*When his father put the ammunition in the safe.
*Much about the trip to Vaal he and Samantha drove down to meet friends (gun through sunroof incident).
*Where his firearm was when he was on the boat (incident above).
*If the firearm was 'one-up' while they were on the boat.
* When he last saw his father (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* reeva's birthdate (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* what year his house was painted (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* speaking to the netcare operator (but remembers what they told him to do) (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* going to the pantry to get tape and bags and things [or whether ms stander went to get them (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
*That the boating accident happened after sunset. (courtesy of Crasshopper)
*Uttering the words "zombie-stopper" (courtesy of Kitty-chi)

lease:...THAT MUST BE EVERYTHING SURELY....lease:

Sorry Forensics, OP's official explantion for the Vaal boat accident was that he hit a "submerged pier."

I do not know if you count things other than from OP's testimony and affis.
But that is in his autobio. I do not know if he cited this at trial.

Of course, if there were such a thing you would expect many other boats to run into it.

And a more complete story of the boat accident I have posted. The SAPS or NPA authority spokeswoman gave a statement shortly after the accident and indicated that alcohol would be tested and that charges might be brought.

Some time later she gave another presser and said she was mistaken--there would be no charges. And alcohol was not offically tested on OP.

ETA: Thus this is another incident whereby SAPS or NPA probably did not act properly and legally--esp given that video show alcoholic beverages on the boat. And the way the investigation was dropped... And that's what ends up resulting. If the investigation were not cut short, maybe a little jail time, might now see Reeva alive. So the "strangenesses" with the Reeva shooting that I've pointed out were not the first time. ...MOO

Now I found a video that says OP did cite the submerged pier hypothesis at trial. So you can add the submerged pier to your list.

Pistorius Allegedly Lied in Court About 2009 Boat Crash - YouTube

 

[lisasalinger]

Thanks for the photos. I just watched a snip of Mangena's testimony from the embedded video posted by Murphys Law. I think that I have been dropping her left arm too late into the fall. I probably have her body twists and angles off too, but it is close enough. I did it as a visual aid to test both PT and DT versions, and to see if OP's story was possible. NOT

Thanks for doing those pics, it definitely did help! I believe it solidifies even further the sequence that Mangena gave us.

 

[shane13]

OP CANNOT REMEMBER....MOST RECENT LIST

*Turning the alarm off before he carried Reeva down the stairs.
*Telling Stipp that he had mistaken Reeva for an intruder.
*If he or the police first climbed up the stairs at the crime scene.
*Firing four shots.
*Having his finger on the trigger at Tasha's restaurant when he was
handling it.
*What happened to the ejected bullet/cartridge at the Tasha shooting incident.
*His Iphone code.
*Which friend he called for help after being shot at whilst he was driving.
*Speaking to security immediately after the shooting.
*Why he told Security everything was fine (after he was phoned back by them).
*The location of the duvet.
*When he turned the light on in the bathroom.
*Which switch his fan was plugged into.
*]The song they were listening from the Kendrick Lamar album whilst in the car ("***** don't kill my vibe).
*When his father put the ammunition in the safe.
*Much about the trip to Vaal he and Samantha drove down to meet friends (gun through sunroof incident).
*Where his firearm was when he was on the boat (incident above).
*If the firearm was 'one-up' while they were on the boat.
* When he last saw his father (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* reeva's birthdate (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* what year his house was painted (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* speaking to the netcare operator (but remembers what they told him to do) (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* going to the pantry to get tape and bags and things [or whether ms stander went to get them (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
*That the boating accident happened after sunset. (courtesy of Crasshopper)
*Uttering the words "zombie-stopper" (courtesy of Kitty-chi)

lease:...THAT MUST BE EVERYTHING SURELY....lease:

Thanks for your efforts with this, Forensics.
I also appreciate how you try to give credit to people.

But I'm sorry to inform you that as people remember things or review testimony you might never rest with this.

 

[crasshopper]

Thank you both! It was fun to read and watch develop

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

OP CANNOT REMEMBER....MOST RECENT LIST

*Turning the alarm off before he carried Reeva down the stairs.
*Telling Stipp that he had mistaken Reeva for an intruder.
*If he or the police first climbed up the stairs at the crime scene.
*Firing four shots.
*Having his finger on the trigger at Tasha's restaurant when he was
handling it.
*What happened to the ejected bullet/cartridge at the Tasha shooting incident.
*His Iphone code.
*Which friend he called for help after being shot at whilst he was driving.
*Speaking to security immediately after the shooting.
*Why he told Security everything was fine (after he was phoned back by them).
*The location of the duvet.
*When he turned the light on in the bathroom.
*Which switch his fan was plugged into.
*]The song they were listening from the Kendrick Lamar album whilst in the car ("***** don't kill my vibe).
*When his father put the ammunition in the safe.
*Much about the trip to Vaal he and Samantha drove down to meet friends (gun through sunroof incident).
*Where his firearm was when he was on the boat (incident above).
*If the firearm was 'one-up' while they were on the boat.
* When he last saw his father (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* reeva's birthdate (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* what year his house was painted (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* speaking to the netcare operator (but remembers what they told him to do) (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* going to the pantry to get tape and bags and things [or whether ms stander went to get them (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
*That the boating accident happened after sunset. (courtesy of Crasshopper)
*Uttering the words "zombie-stopper" (courtesy of Kitty-chi)



lease:...THAT MUST BE EVERYTHING SURELY....lease:

Thank you Forensics for the time to make this

This list will be longer than his nose...:drumroll: