Oscar Pistorius Defense

[DebinGA]

He forgot that hollow points aren't the only "type of ammunition used with my firearm".

 

[sleuth-d-]

Can I just clarify why some are saying that the "5th iPhone" (pedantically this is the 3rd iPhone or 5th cell phone, as the other two cell phones were Blackberry phones) went missing for 16 days? According to Nel, OP's "missing" iPhone, which I believe has the number ending 0020, was handed to the South African Police Service by the accused on 25 February after being taken from the scene on 14 February. That's 11 days. The data from the three iPhones and 2 iPads was admitted to court as Exhibit XX.

The relevant dialogue, at the beginning of 24 March, can be heard here: https://soundcloud.com/primediabroadcasting/am-court-proceedings-20140324

great find. which should clear up the discussion around deleted youtube clips.

i am thinking this was the phone that nel questioned was in op pocket... nel also then questioned was in the charger in the kitchen... and then???

 

[Mr Fossil]

even amongst the absurdities, what an extremely absurd story that was.

Agreed. If OP really was shot at he'd have 1) told others as it was a significant event and 2) definitely remembered who picked him up (and probably took him to pick up his car too). He seems to remember a lot of other detail about the event which IMO is made up.

It's as absurd as the gun going off at Tashas without his finger being on the trigger and him not discussing it with anyone. He says he wanted to look at the gun because he was interested in buying something similar and then, after it spontaneously goes off in his hand, he discusses it with no one. This is unbelievable. If he is that keen on guns he'd have told a lot of people to steer clear of Glocks and certainly would have discussed it with other gun experts. He says he didn't.

 

[sleuth-d-]

He forgot that hollow points aren't the only "type of ammunition used with my firearm".

doesn't remember
* what he did with the black bags [roux asks him twice]
* dr stipp's face, or what he looked like. [unprompted]
* don't remember washing my chest [just remember washing hands and face] [unprompted]

* didn't remember speaking to mr 'devaris' or not.
* how close i was standing to the door [when hitting with cricket bat]

is a pattern emerging? or a 'tell'?
interesting how he has 'devalued' and 'removed' dr stipp from his version.

 

[jimmy73]

...i am beginning to think that she may have opened the toilet window...

I wondered the same thing when Anette Stipp said

It sounded to me as if the screaming was coming closer, and I said to my husband "is there someone not coming down the street screaming?"

It might have been that she was simply moving closer to / into the bathroom but it could have been her opening the toilet window. I don't recall any reference to the toilet window in witness statements though.

 

[DebinGA]

Did OP, under oath, deny asking DF to lie and take the blame for him at Tasha's?

 

[patCee]

Another for the list:

Oscar couldn't remember where he put the phone down in the bathroom (re accusing police of tampering, moving the phone)

 

[LauraT]

What happened with Oscars sore shoulder and them supposedly swapping sides of the bed that night?

 

[kittychi]

Shane, I was interested to read this in YOU magazine but have only found one topic about Botha (in YOU) which was an interview with Audrey, his wife. This can be found here for anyone who is interested.

https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=93195&dl=true&src=false See page 6

Do you have a link for the interview in YOU magazine with Botha; I would quite like to read it.

Thank you IA

IIRC, Carol70 from South Africa, provided information and text from YOU because it was subscription only. If you can find out the published date, you can look up Carol's posts during that time; it was about a year ago.

OT: Is that a Chicago Cubs hat hanging in Hilton Botha's garage? :biggrin:

 

[sleuth-d-]

I wondered the same thing when Anette Stipp said


It might have been that she was simply moving closer to / into the bathroom but it could have been her opening the toilet window. I don't recall any reference to the toilet window in witness statements though.

it would be the best place to shout for help, in her situation, locked in that toilet. roux was at pains to describe how unlikely it was that ms burger heard screams from a closed toilet. and yet she was so confident that she did.

the window was also a possible escape route for rs, that might lead op to think there was no alternative but to shoot. [jeans on the ground directly below the toilet window]

op described a window slamming against the frame. the bathroom window doesn't slam open. maybe he did slam the toilet window shut at some point during 'cleanup'.

shame nel didn't ask him if the toilet window was open, op might have said 'i don't remember'.

 

[kittychi]

Unless someone does come forward to give testimony about the alleged highway shooting I think I would have to regard it as having never happened .
He could only have called friends and no doubt they would have been happy to back him up now if it had happened .
I think I also read somewhere ( going senile so can't remember where ) that OP also stated that he had death threats in the past ,does anyone know if this is true and if there was any evidence to back it up ?
TIA
JMOO

OR...by now that friend would have called OP and said "Hey Oscar, it was ME who you called to come and get you. I remember how shook up you were!"

 

[Interested Bystander]

IIRC, Carol70 from South Africa, provided information and text from YOU because it was subscription only. If you can find out the published date, you can look up Carol's posts during that time; it was about a year ago.

OT: Is that a Chicago Cubs hat hanging in Hilton Botha's garage? :biggrin:

Many thanks.


I found the Audrey Botha interview by using the search option on YOU in Facebook. It did turn up something for Hilton Botha but not what I was expecting. I will have a look in her previous posts to see if I can find something. I wonder if Carol70 still pops in. If so, Carol, can you help, please?

 

[kittychi]

This is the Vanity Fair article from June 2013 featuring Hilton Botha:

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

 

[Interested Bystander]

This is the Vanity Fair article from June 2013 featuring Hilton Botha:

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

Yes, I did see that one at the time, thank you. I don't remember reading anything else about Botha, hence my interest.

 

[shane13]

Shane, I was interested to read this in YOU magazine but have only found one topic about Botha (in YOU) which was an interview with Audrey, his wife. This can be found here for anyone who is interested.

https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=93195&dl=true&src=false See page 6

Do you have a link for the interview in YOU magazine with Botha; I would quite like to read it.

Thank you IA

IB:

Sorry, I don't have any links, because I had gotten hard copies of 2 YOU mag issues and the Vanity Fair issue.

If you read carefully, you will see that this is not the frightened Botha portrayed. But rather someone who says he wants to go back on the stand and tell all he knows--now that he is not with the SAPS.

Again IMO he blew the whistle that when he got to the scene Carl and Oldwage had already been allowed access to the .38 ammo and the memmory stick. The same Col in charge himself admitted he let Aimee into the bedroom, not that long after the shooting. And a different Lt. Col (with decades of experience) handled the gun w.o. gloves.

Botha actually has some things in common wth Nel. Both were charged or arrested while investigating others. Both were vindicated.

 

[Forensics]

*Turning the alarm off before he carried Reeva down the stairs.
*Telling Stipp that he had mistaken Reeva for an intruder.
*If he or the police first climbed up the stairs at the crime scene.
*Firing four shots.
*Having his finger on the trigger at Tasha's restaurant when he was
handling it.
*What happened to the ejected bullet/cartridge at the Tasha shooting incident.
*His Iphone code.
*Which friend he called for help after being shot at whilst he was driving.
*Speaking to security immediately after the shooting.
*Why he told Security everything was fine (after he was phoned back by them).
*The location of the duvet.
*When he turned the light on in the bathroom.
*Which switch his fan was plugged into.
*]The song they were listening from the Kendrick Lamar album whilst in the car ("***** don't kill my vibe).
*When his father put the ammunition in the safe.
*Much about the trip to Vaal he and Samantha drove down to meet friends (gun through sunroof incident).
*Where his firearm was when he was on the boat (incident above).
*If the firearm was 'one-up' while they were on the boat.
* His ears were ringing after the first gunshot
*How he sounded that night (apart from every scream he made was different)
* Why the detail about the noise of the door shutting was not in his bail affidavit or plea explanation.
* Why he didn't give evidence previously regarding the door slamming whilst he was shouting and screaming
* When he last saw his father (Courtesy of Shane 13)
*Reeva's birthdate (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* What year his house was painted (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* Speaking to the netcare operator (but remembers what they told him to do) (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* Going to the pantry to get tape and bags and things [or whether ms stander went to get them (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
*That the boating accident happened after sunset. (courtesy of Crasshopper)
*Uttering the words "zombie-stopper" (courtesy of Kitty-chi)
* If there was a submerged pier (boating accident) (courtesy of Shane 13)
* Which friend he called the next day to go and pick up his car from the restaurant car park (courtesy of soozieqtips and Lithgow1)
* Going to the racetrack and threatening Quinton van der Burgh in front of witnesses (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* Besides the LED blue--he had other little electronics lights on (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* The whispering that Nel tricked him with (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* When Reeva last ate food (he claimed it was 7pm) (Courtesy of Peliman)
* That hollow points aren't the only type of ammunition used in his firearm (Courtesy of DebinGA)
* Dr stipp's face or what he looked like (Courtesy of sleuth-d-)
*Washing his chest [just remembers washing hands and face] (Courtesy of sleuth-d-)
* Whether he spoke to Mr 'Devaris' or not (Courtesy of sleuth-d-)
* how close he was standing to the door when hitting with cricket bat (Courtesy of sleuth-d-)


:facepalm: Oh, my he sure needs an 'aide memoir' :facepalm:

Thanks everyone!!

 

[asanque]

Did OP, under oath, deny asking DF to lie and take the blame for him at Tasha's?

Yes he denied it under oath.

Despite:
1. All other witnesses saying he didn't take blame; and
2. His own Whatsapp message to Reeva saying he asked DF to take the blame

 

[shane13]

*Turning the alarm off before he carried Reeva down the stairs.
*Telling Stipp that he had mistaken Reeva for an intruder.
*If he or the police first climbed up the stairs at the crime scene.
*Firing four shots.
*Having his finger on the trigger at Tasha's restaurant when he was
handling it.
*What happened to the ejected bullet/cartridge at the Tasha shooting incident.
*His Iphone code.
*Which friend he called for help after being shot at whilst he was driving.
*Speaking to security immediately after the shooting.
*Why he told Security everything was fine (after he was phoned back by them).
*The location of the duvet.
*When he turned the light on in the bathroom.
*Which switch his fan was plugged into.
*]The song they were listening from the Kendrick Lamar album whilst in the car ("***** don't kill my vibe).
*When his father put the ammunition in the safe.
*Much about the trip to Vaal he and Samantha drove down to meet friends (gun through sunroof incident).
*Where his firearm was when he was on the boat (incident above).
*If the firearm was 'one-up' while they were on the boat.
* His ears were ringing after the first gunshot
*How he sounded that night (apart from every scream he made was different)
* Why the detail about the noise of the door shutting was not in his bail affidavit or plea explanation.
* Why he didn't give evidence previously regarding the door slamming whilst he was shouting and screaming
* When he last saw his father (Courtesy of Shane 13)
*Reeva's birthdate (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* What year his house was painted (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* Speaking to the netcare operator (but remembers what they told him to do) (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
* Going to the pantry to get tape and bags and things [or whether ms stander went to get them (Courtesy of Sleuth-d-)
*That the boating accident happened after sunset. (courtesy of Crasshopper)
*Uttering the words "zombie-stopper" (courtesy of Kitty-chi)
* If there was a submerged pier (boating accident) (courtesy of Shane 13)
* Which friend he called the next day to go and pick up his car from the restaurant car park (courtesy of soozieqtips and Lithgow1)
* Going to the racetrack and threatening Quinton van der Burgh in front of witnesses (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* Besides the LED blue--he had other little electronics lights on (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* The whispering that Nel tricked him with (Courtesy of Shane 13)
* When Reeva last ate food (he claimed it was 7pm) (Courtesy of Peliman)
* That hollow points aren't the only type of ammunition used in his firearm (Courtesy of DebinGA)
* Dr stipp's face or what he looked like (Courtesy of sleuth-d-)
*Washing his chest [just remembers washing hands and face] (Courtesy of sleuth-d-)
* Whether he spoke to Mr 'Devaris' or not (Courtesy of sleuth-d-)
* how close he was standing to the door when hitting with cricket bat (Courtesy of sleuth-d-)


:facepalm: Oh, my he sure needs an 'aide memoir' :facepalm:

Thanks everyone!!

Foensics:
Great job.

one thing I spotted i believe is not quite correct.

"* That hollow points aren't the only type of ammunition used in his firearm (Courtesy of DebinGA)"

IIRC OP merely said that ammo fit his gun.
it was someone here who added that that gun only takes hollow point ammo.
I later proved the error in that by posting a wiki article that listed the ammo that gun takes besides hollow pts.

But I do not believe it was Op who said "only.' He just said that ammo fits his gun. Actually a true statement in as far as it goes.

 

[DebinGA]

OP in answer to Nel's question re why black talons: "It is the type of ammunition used for my firearm."

 

[shane13]

Below is the verbatim Q and A from this link:

http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2014/03/03/inside-the-oscar-pistorius-trial

Again it shows Oscar never said "only." It was someone here [not referring to you Deb]...
And so OP did not lie in that instance.


Nel: "Who should we blame for the Black Talon rounds ripping through her body? Who shot her with Black Talon ammunition?"

Pistorius: "I did."

Nel: "Why did you have that ammunition?"

Pistorius: "It's ammunition used for my type of firearm."