Oscar Pistorius Defense

[Ncl1968]

What areas of contention are left for Roux's ballistics expert to clear up at this point, since the order of shots, angle of shots, position of Reeva when first hit, general area OP fired from, etc., seem to be pretty much settled imo? Is whether OP's gun requires intentional trigger pulling for each bullet fired contested? In other words, how might another ballistics expert help OP?

All they can do now is muddy the waters and hope for the best. I think the defense was dealt a poor hand in op story they expected him to stick to the script but he failed. Mr Dixon stood by his script but unfortunately op had already changed his too much so Mr Dixon could do harm now by sticking to his script

 

[homegirl]

Does anyone else think that OP has made a tactical blunder with the highway shooting and Tasha's testimony? The former looks very fake because of his inability to have it confirmed and latter looks even worse as in addition to having witnesses deny his version of events he also stuck to the 'I didn't have my finger on the trigger', which on the face of it looks ludicrous. I just can't see any benefit to putting those stories before the court when it seems all they would do is help to cast doubt on his overall honesty and credibility.

I wondered if Op denied the gun and ammunition charges because, If he had admitted guilt to them, he might not have been granted bail. IIRC, his bail statement stated that his life had been threatened. Maybe the incident with the shooting on the highway was intended to back up that statement.

Once he had denied the charges at the BH, maybe he and/or the DT thought that it would damage his credibility to admit guilt at trial.

*Interested Bystander has provided a link showing that the gun charge were added after the bail hearing. That will teach me to speculate without the facts.

 

[Viper]

It is important I believe to understand the difference between how a severed artery spurts blood, as compared to how a nicked artery spurts blood, they are distinctively different. A severed artery can only shoot out 6" vertically and 18" laterally, and it will only spurt for about 30 seconds. IMO that matches the single blood pool found in the WC and nowhere else in the crime scene. A "nicked" artery is under pressure and can shoot many feet and for a much longer time.

From the link, quote:

In cut carotid arteries with 100 mL of blood through the heart at each beat (at 65 beats a minute), a completely severed artery will spurt blood for about 30 seconds and the blood will not spurt much higher than the human head. If the artery is just nicked, on the other hand, the blood will spurt longer but will be coming out under pressure and spraying much further.

Blood squirt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Viper]

It is interesting that an attorney asked a doctor if arterial spurt can be produced by a dead body and the doctor answered, "If so very short a time." It seems that his case was similar to parts of the discussion here.

From the link below, quote:

Q. Doctor, and if there is an arterial spurt of blood from a body when a wound is inflicted by a sharp instrument, would that mean that the body 596 was still alive?

A. I would definitely say yes.

Q. Could the body be dead and yet there should be an arterial spurt of blood

A. If so very short a time. That is merely an evidence of a pump, a muscle pump, like the heart contracting, and each contraction is evidenced by a spurting, if you please, but with that one wound as serious as perhaps in this wound would not continue for any length of time.

http://books.google.com/books?id=i9...a=X&ei=RPVbU4TKLeGq2QWK4IHIDQ&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAg

 

[PPKik]

Thank you karmady!

I well explained all this with several posts in the last few hours.
And indeed with one a few days ago listing the wiki article showing that that gun takes other than hollow points.

The only issue i raised now is that op never said "only."
Of course, he was evasive, but his statement was not a lie.

Yes, evasive. And he used passive voice. Again, taking no responsibility for choosing to use hollow points.

Not "I chose to use Black Talon (hollow points) as the best defensive ammunition," but "It's ammunition used for my type of firearm." Just "used," as if he had no choice.


GN: "Who should we blame for the Black Talon ammunition that ripped through her?"

OP: "It's ammunition used for my type of firearm," Pistorius claimed.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Does anyone else think that OP has made a tactical blunder with the highway shooting and Tasha's testimony? The former looks very fake because of his inability to have it confirmed and latter looks even worse as in addition to having witnesses deny his version of events he also stuck to the 'I didn't have my finger on the trigger', which on the face of it looks ludicrous. I just can't see any benefit to putting those stories before the court when it seems all they would do is help to cast doubt on his overall honesty and credibility.

Yes, absolutely. I cannot believe his DT suggested that he should do that. He would have looked far more credible as a person if he accepted he makes mistakes. However, in Oscar's eyes 'Oscar can only do/be right'. His insecurities will come back and bite him in the b*m. I am sure the penalty for lying (which he obviously was) will be greater than owning the crime.

 

[jay-jay]

I wondered if Op denied the gun and ammunition charges because, If he had admitted guilt to them, he might not have been granted bail. IIRC, his bail statement stated that his life had been threatened. Maybe the incident with the shooting on the highway was intended to back up that statement.

Once he had denied the charges at the BH, maybe he and/or the DT thought that it would damage his credibility to admit guilt at trial.

Good thinking, homegirl .. I hadn't been able to make out why he didn't just admit to the lesser charges (and hence would at least come across as being more honest) .. you could be right. He would've been better off sacrificing his bail in that case, imo, and admitting guilt for those ones right from the start .. then again, that indicates to me that he knows he won't get away with 'the big one' and that's why he was so desperate to get bail because he knows he's going to be locked up for a v.long time.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I wondered if Op denied the gun and ammunition charges because, If he had admitted guilt to them, he might not have been granted bail. IIRC, his bail statement stated that his life had been threatened. Maybe the incident with the shooting on the highway was intended to back up that statement.

Once he had denied the charges at the BH, maybe he and/or the DT thought that it would damage his credibility to admit guilt at trial.

I think the gun charges were added after the Bail Hearing.

Here is a link indicating when the charges were added.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ce-two-added-gun-charges-at-murder-trial.html

 

[sleuth-d-]

Good thinking, homegirl .. I hadn't been able to make out why he didn't just admit to the lesser charges (and hence would at least come across as being more honest) .. you could be right. He would've been better off sacrificing his bail in that case, imo, and admitting guilt for those ones right from the start .. then again, that indicates to me that he knows he won't get away with 'the big one' and that's why he was so desperate to get bail because he knows he's going to be locked up for a v.long time.

i agree. but also, taking responsibility, admitting guilt and admitting defeat are just not op's thing.

 

[PPKik]

BBm I have wondered about that window and about what Reeva was doing in the WC for all of those minutes besides screaming in fear. It seems to me that she would at least open the window to scream for help. I did note that the blinds in the WC were drawn up about half way, the same as the blinds in the bathroom window.

I would also like to know if her cell phone could get a signal in the WC. If she had it with her, I would think that she would have called for help.

You are right that OP would probably say that he didn't remember if the window was open. Nel questioned OP very briefly about where things were in the WC and the bathroom. He put a photo on the courtroom monitor and asked him where things were. OP said that he did not remember where the bat was,where he put the phones, where exactly the gun was, or where anything else was in the bathroom.

Nel did not question OP about where on the WC floor the keys were, but OP pointed out where Reeva was, and said that Reeva's cell phone was where the plank was. When asked where the plank was, he said he didn't remember.

From your post I assume there were no photos of that toilet window.

I have been trying since hearing some of the ear witness testimony to find out whether that toilet window was open and how that would affect the sound of Reeva screams heard outside.

What would the sound difference have been if she had started screaming or yelling in the bedroom, during the the "fight" that reportedly started hours before the shooting (with windows open or closed?) vs the last sound reported of Reeva screaming (even after the head shot) in the toilet, as reported by Ms Burger.

How would the screaming and different reports of screaming, a woman's voice, a man's voice, and both, have been affected by the balcony door being open or closed and that toilet window being open or closed during the last several hours before and during the shooting?

I don't even know if the sliding bathroom window was open or closed because it could have been opened after the shooting.

Has that house been tested for sound with all windows opened and closed, and then in the positions OP claims they were in during the shooting?

 

[Interested Bystander]

i agree. but also, taking responsibility, admitting guilt and admitting defeat are just not op's thing.

He was not charged with the gun offences until October 2013, way after the Bail Hearing. There was no mention of gun offences, as far as I can remember, at the BH.

He did however plead not guilty to the charges at the beginning of the Trial proper.

 

[sleuth-d-]

From your post I assume there were no photos of that toilet window.

I have been trying since hearing some of the ear witness testimony to find out whether that toilet window was open and how that would affect the sound of Reeva screams heard outside.

What would the sound difference have been if she had started screaming or yelling in the bedroom, during the the "fight" that reportedly started hours before the shooting (with windows open or closed?) vs the last sound reported of Reeva screaming (even after the head shot) in the toilet, as reported by Ms Burger.

How would the screaming and different reports of screaming, a woman's voice, a man's voice, and both, have been affected by the balcony door being open or closed and that toilet window being open or closed during the last several hours before and during the shooting?

I don't even know if the sliding bathroom window was open or closed because it could have been opened after the shooting.

Has that house been tested for sound with all windows opened and closed, and then in the positions OP claims they were in during the shooting?

mrs stipp said the toilet window was closed, and the bathroom window was open from her first view at 3:00ish. which kind of squashes my initial thought that the toilet window was open.

of course this leaves the screams having to be even more intense... to carry through the closed space to the stipps, and beyond, to burger/johnson.

 

[DebinGA]

mrs stipp said the toilet window was closed, and the bathroom window was open from her first view at 3:00ish. which kind of squashes my initial thought that the toilet window was open.

of course this leaves the screams having to be even more intense... to carry through the closed space to the stipps, and beyond, to burger/johnson.

The open panel of the bathroom window was the one nearest the WC door. Both Stipps saw some light, dimmer than the brighter bathroom light, in the WC. OP had damaged the door enough before the final shots to allow some of the bathroom light to filter into the WC imo. This also enabled Reeva's screams to be heard.

 

[james83]

Mandy Wiener ‏@MandyWiener Mar 25
Nel's style is to build his case methodically. We won't necessarily see the full picture until he ties it all together in closing argument.
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[Carmelita]

The open panel of the bathroom window was the one nearest the WC door. Both Stipps saw some light, dimmer than the brighter bathroom light, in the WC. OP had damaged the door enough before the final shots to allow some of the bathroom light to filter into the WC imo. This also enabled Reeva's screams to be heard.

I don't think that there it is any testimony in which there was ever a pause long enough between gun shots for Oscar to break the panel out of the door and locate Reeva's position, for that to be a forensic possibility Oscar would have had to broken the panel out assessed Reeva's position moved back to the area from which he fired the other shot(s) and shoot through the door hitting Reeva in the head.

I don't think Nel will argue that as a possible scenario.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I wondered the same thing when Anette Stipp said


It might have been that she was simply moving closer to / into the bathroom but it could have been her opening the toilet window. I don't recall any reference to the toilet window in witness statements though.

Mrs Stipp stated the window (the lefthand one of the triple window) was open when she saw the lights on. Perhaps with the sound seemingly getting closer it may mean that Reeva was running from the bedroom to the bathroom to get away from OP. I think that is highly likely.

 

[Ncl1968]

I don't think that there it is any testimony in which there was ever a pause long enough between gun shots for Oscar to break the panel out of the door and locate Reeva's position, for that to be a forensic possibility Oscar would have had to broken the panel out assessed Reeva's position moved back to the area from which he fired the other shot(s) and shoot through the door hitting Reeva in the head.

I don't think Nel will argue that as a possible scenario.

It's been mentioned that there was a small piece of the door missing hence he could see roughly where she was*weather the missing piece was done previously as per damage to bedroom door but to me it makes sense since he shot 4 times missed just once and stopped shooting after the head shot, seems reasonable he saw her

 

[james83]

It's been mentioned that there was a small piece of the door missing hence he could see roughly where she was*weather the missing piece was done previously as per damage to bedroom door but to me it makes sense since he shot 4 times missed just once and stopped shooting after the head shot, seems reasonable he saw her

This is why i fail to understand how anyone can believe his nonsense, first shot hits her hip and she falls backwards onto the magazine rack, and then low and behold his aim changes to virtually that exact spot, well what a coincidence.

 

[katydid23]

If you take the DT at their word, then the 'screaming woman' that the witnesses heard was supposedly OP. Now I can believe that a man, upon finding his lover dead, at his own hands, accidentally, could conceivably wail like a woman, and be in pure distress.

HOWEVER, that is not what they are saying, technically. They are saying that he screamed like a woman, BEFORE batting open the toilet door. But once he actually saw her body, no more screaming. :doh:

That makes no sense to me at all. And why the big gap of time before he actually entered the room to try and save her? Did he jist wail and cry for 15 minutes before actually getting to her body and before calling for medical help?

I cannot believe that version. I could believe he cried out in anguish upon seeing her dead on the toilet floor. But that is not what they are putting to us.

 

[soozieqtips]

If you take the DT at their word, then the 'screaming woman' that the witnesses heard was supposedly OP. Now I can believe that a man, upon finding his lover dead, at his own hands, accidentally, could conceivably wail like a woman, and be in pure distress.

HOWEVER, that is not what they are saying, technically. They are saying that he screamed like a woman, BEFORE batting open the toilet door. But once he actually saw her body, no more screaming. :doh:

That makes no sense to me at all. And why the big gap of time before he actually entered the room to try and save her? Did he jist wail and cry for 15 minutes before actually getting to her body and before calling for medical help?

I cannot believe that version. I could believe he cried out in anguish upon seeing her dead on the toilet floor. But that is not what they are putting to us.

BBM - when Nel asked OP why he didn't scream after he'd discovered what he'd done - OP said something like "Why would I scream"? - and then went on to say something even stranger, that he'd been "saddened" by what he'd seen. Saddened????? He'd just shot his 'beloved' to death, and he was saddened? He wasn't horrified, or going out of his mind with pain - he was saddened!!