Oscar Pistorius Defense

[DebinGA]

9mm Glock.
I am not sure the type of ammo was noted?
And I think cops often or sometimes use hollow points.
I will have to check this.
I think the main issue is randomness or not.

Well, that was not my main issue. My main issue was the innocent man has hit 6 times with whatever ammo the drunk cop was using in his 9mm Glock Parabellum, and, from what Capt. Mangena and Dr. Saayman described the black talons doing to Reeva, I doubt they were hollow points as the injured man is still alive..

 

[TorisMom003]

The "watermelon shooting" video also shows the kick back of the gun OP used to kill Reeva. It shows me that OP definitely had to aim deliberately after firing each shot. If OP had not, then all three of the following shots would have been further up and slightly to the right instead of the placing that is seen on the door.

link for a video of the "watermelon shooting"
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=2AE9119BFE86CA4D72042AE9119BFE86CA4D7204

link for picture of door
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27041156

MOO

 

[homegirl]

BIB Respectfully, but oh no! I have been re watching much of Nel's cross of OP. OP fought with Nel about this at nauseam.

There are many things that OP needs the court to believe the police moved or changed before they took the crime scene photos, and this is absolutely positively one of them. Some others are the fan, the curtains, the lamp and patio lights, the duvet, and the jeans. These things affect OP's, his Defense Team's, ability to portray his story as plausible. With respect to the magazine rack it affects their ability to claim that OP did not aim at the sound(s) that Reeva or the intruder were making behind the closed door and his hitting her with three of the four bullets was coincidental, not intentional.

I totally agree that the OP and the DT has to have the judge believe that the police moved all of those things and more. I just wonder if OP was tailoring as he described where the magazine rack was.

I hit submit when I meant to hit review. Tailoring is the wrong word really. It's just that OP made up so much of his story on the fly. I think he may have surprised even his own DT with the placement and movements of the magazine rack.

 

[shane13]

Well, that was not my main issue. My main issue was the innocent man has hit 6 times with whatever ammo the drunk cop was using, and, from what Capt. Mangena and Dr. Saayman described the black talons doing to Reeva, I doubt they were hollow points as the injured man is still alive..

As my title noted there are similarities and differences between the 2 shootings.

I think most police forces do use hollow points for the reasons that article went into. Indeed many or most rounds sold in gunshops in the USA now are hollow points.

One difference is that in the cops case, the bullets had to go thru the metal door and the rest of the door.

Another difference is that black talons are different and even more deadly than standard hollow points.

Perhaps this is the reason they were discontinued by the manufacturer. This was another issue that Dixon danced around in his own Oscar-Speak. He claimed at one point he used BTs for his experiments, then later IIRC claimed to have used an allegedly near-identical round.

I think the black talons are probably unique in the devastation they cause.

 

[shane13]

The "watermelon shooting" video also shows the kick back of the gun OP used to kill Reeva. It shows me that OP definitely had to aim deliberately after firing each shot. If OP had not, then all three of the following shots would have been further up and slightly to the right instead of the placing that is seen on the door.

link for a video of the "watermelon shooting"
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=2AE9119BFE86CA4D72042AE9119BFE86CA4D7204

link for picture of door
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27041156

MOO

That quote--allegedly from Oscar--"it's a lot softer than brain..." is very troubling.

 

[Viper]

I totally agree that the OP and the DT has to have the judge believe that the police moved all of those things and more. I just wonder if OP was tailoring as he described where the magazine rack was.

I hit submit when I meant to hit review. Tailoring is the wrong word really. It's just that OP made up so much of his story on the fly. I think he may have surprised even his own DT with the placement and movements of the magazine rack.

I follow why you are thinking that. Is it because Dixon apparently said that the mag rack was where the PT says it was? In other words, that he said it was never moved by the police? I say "apparently" because to be honest I did not watch all of his testimony. I tried, but I just could not stand to listen to him after a fairly short period of time so I walked away from the computer.

In any event, just because Dixon did not try to explain the DT version that the mag rack was moved does not mean that his version is the DT's version. He had been a very busy bee all the way up to his taking the witness stand, and apparently he was not informed that this was an issue for the DT, or perhaps he could not support their version using scientific instruments, like his eyes. LOL!

Watch for the witness that examined the hundreds or thousands of photos to push this issue that the magazine rack was moved, s/he will be along shortly.

If it was not an issue, OP would not make the accusation and have to struggle to tailor anything about it. He has been coached for many months on what is important and what is not. His arguing that the police moved the magazine rack and placed it in the blood pool is obviously one of the important things, and I can see why.

 

[Cherwell]

Thanks for your comments:

BB1 - I was referring to OP's direct neighbors, Mr & Mrs Nhlengethwa (house to the left of OP) who didn't hear a woman screaming and Mr Nhlengethwa heard a man crying and to Mr Motshwani (to the right), who heard crying, not a woman screaming.

Of course we haven't so far heard directly from any of these people, including Mr van der Merwe. If they do appear as witnesses there may be some clarification.

BB3 - Yes, this is in dispute. The Prosecution say that OP was on his stumps when he wielded the cricket bat (Vermuelen's testimony). While both the Prosecution and Defence agree that he was on his stumps when he fired the gun.

Well. That's if we accept that the cricket bat was only used once, and I'm not sure that is the prosecution case. Vermeulen's testimony, taken as a whole, was somewhat confusing on this point.

Plus Capt Mangena did allow the possibility that OP might have shot from a different stance. OP's use of the word "crouching" is telling here.

 

[TorisMom003]

That quote--allegedly from Oscar--"it's a lot softer than brain..." is very troubling.

OP admitted while on the stand, after that video was played, that he was in fact the one that said the zombie stopper comment. Now I know we can't believe 99% of what he says, however on this one he told the truth.

MOO

 

[shane13]

OP admitted while on the stand, after that video was played, that he was in fact the one that said the zombie stopper comment. Now I know we can't believe 99% of what he says, however on this one he told the truth.

MOO

Strange. I thought I recalled him denyng that was him.
You wouldn't have a quick link, T?

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n-again-on-stand/story-fn3dxix6-1226879481206

"The court was then shown video footage of Pistorius shooting at a watermelon. Triumphant laughter is heard on the video, and Pistorius says: "It's a lot softer than brain but it's like a zombie stopper." Pistorius denied laughing, and said he had been referring to a zombie's brain, not a human being's.The gun was the same weapon that the athlete used to kill Steenkamp, with Nel arguing that the bullet had the same effect on the watermelon as it did on her head, showing a picture of her injuries"

Yep, his immature friends were laughing but not sober, mature OP.

 

[Lyra500]

the lifting is clearly an excuse for the stander call. and a lame one. after the call he immediately picked her up and carried her down the stairs.

she was 5'7" with the slim build of a model.
he was an olympic athlete, with exceptional upper body strength.

i wonder what weight he could gym lift. i think he could pick her up easily.

As someone else quite rightly pointed out -if he called Stander first to ask for help in lifting Reeva, why? How did he know he was supposed to move her before having sought medical advice.

Also, he first said he asked Stander to call the ambulance (bail affidavit). Of course when Stipp testified that when when asked whether an ambulance had been called Stander said "No", that cast doubt on his bail statement, so then it changed to asking Stander to come to help him lift Reeva.

Once again, as he changes his lies they expose more holes which he needs to plug thus digging himself deeper and deeper.

Yes, it is possible to think up fanciful scenarios to explain away individual inconsistencies in OP's accounts (and some seem determined to do just that ad infinitum) , but when you look at the whole picture, his story becomes completely unbelievable because there are simply too many inconsistencies and unlikely elements for them all to be true at the same time. It just is not possible.

 

[homegirl]

I follow why you are thinking that. Is it because Dixon apparently said that the mag rack was where the PT says it was? In other words, that he said it was never moved by the police? I say "apparently" because to be honest I did not watch all of his testimony. I tried, but I just could not stand to listen to him after a fairly short period of time so I walked away from the computer.

In any event, just because Dixon did not try to explain the DT version that the mag rack was moved does not mean that his version is the DT's version. He had been a very busy bee all the way up to his taking the witness stand, and apparently he was not informed that this was an issue for the DT, or perhaps he could not support their version using scientific instruments, like his eyes. LOL!

Watch for the witness that examined the hundreds or thousands of photos to push this issue that the magazine rack was moved, s/he will be along shortly.

If it was not an issue, OP would not make the accusation and have to struggle to tailor anything about it. He has been coached for many months on what is important and what is not. His arguing that the police moved the magazine rack and placed it in the blood pool is obviously one of the important things, and I can see why.

I need review Dixon's testimony on cross. I will just let it buffer, then skip right to that part. I don't think that I could take listening to him again either.

IIC He did suggest that the magazine rack had been moved but it didn't make much sense and it contradicted OP's version as Nel pointed out to him. He said something like Well, that is his version, meaning OP. Truly bizarre. He was a very busy bee, indeed. He could't quite keep up.

I think your thoughts as to why OP wanted the mag rack to be in a different place is very good reasoning. It explains why he told at least one of his many lies.

The problem with moving the magazine rack, is that Reeva is now laying on the floor, in the undisturbed blood pools, out of the bullet trajectories, and somehow manages to get her shattered right arm up onto the toilet seat.

 

[jay-jay]

OP said his bedroom doors had shrunk up from exposure to humidity and the lock could barely reach from one door to the other. So to secure his door he propped a cricket bat up against them. Sorry, but a locked door was not in his way. The cricket bat was though. LOL!

He is a double amputee. I wish that had never happened to him. And frankly I would have trouble wishing that upon my worst enemy. But he is/was an Olymic runner, and his legs were on the right side of the bed next to where he says Reeva was laying, still asleep. An easy choice, grab his legs and make a safe escape with Reeva? Or go for his gun and run towards a possible death at the hands of Mr. Armed Intruder?

OP testified that his legs were on the right side of the bed next to the window. OP testified that Reeva was sleeping there, next to his legs. I never understood why he wanted his gun to be on the left side of the bed, until just now! Funny!

OP's Defense is just arrogance. No judge, no court, would fall for all of this nonsense.

BIB .. is that really what he said?? .. I must've missed that bit ..

It directly contradicts his reason for having to barge through the bedroom doors to open them after the shooting then, because his reason for that was that they had swollen due to the humidity and had jammed together.

 

[shane13]

OP admitted while on the stand, after that video was played, that he was in fact the one that said the zombie stopper comment. Now I know we can't believe 99% of what he says, however on this one he told the truth.

MOO

Strange. I thought I recalled him denyng that was him.
You wouldn't have a quick link, T?

From here: http://articles.latimes.com/2014/apr/10/world/la-fg-pistorius-trial-20140410

"During Pistorius' testimony, Nel bluntly asked him whether he knew what was meant by a "zombie stopper." The athlete initially denied any knowledge of the term, but the court saw a video in which Pistorius, who was at a shooting range, fired a handgun at a watermelon, which exploded. The athlete then said in the video, "It's not as soft as brains but," cursing, added, "it's like a zombie stopper," to raucous cheering around him."

 

[TorisMom003]

Strange. I thought I recalled him denyng that was him.
You wouldn't have a quick link, T?

Here ya go. I have the video cued up at the point where Nel asks him about that comment and then OP's answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZaPV4dc4VcM#t=145

 

[Viper]

BIB .. is that really what he said?? .. I must've missed that bit ..

It directly contradicts his reason for having to barge through the bedroom doors to open them after the shooting then, because his reason for that was that they had swollen due to the humidity and had jammed together.

BIB at the top: Yes! He said it twice in fact under direct by Roux.

BIB lower: He was referring to the one door that is held in place by pushing a locking pin at the top and the bottom, that door is fixed in place and does not normally remain free to open. It would be really stupid to try to barge that instead of just pulling the pins to release the door, but that is what he said. He said he wanted it and the other door open to make carrying Reeve through them easier. But by adding that he barged it he was laying out his explanation about why the doors, both of them, had been barged and broken. But it turns out that he did not have to do that because Nel did not include that event in the actual murder. Nel picked up the action when the argument started in the bedroom and Reeva fled to the toilet closet.

 

[Viper]

I need review Dixon's testimony on cross. I will just let it buffer, then skip right to that part. I don't think that I could take listening to him again either.

IIC He did suggest that the magazine rack had been moved but it didn't make much sense and it contradicted OP's version as Nel pointed out to him. He said something like Well, that is his version, meaning OP. Truly bizarre. He was a very busy bee, indeed. He could't quite keep up.

I think your thoughts as to why OP wanted the mag rack to be in a different place is very good reasoning. It explains why he told at least one of his many lies.

The problem with moving the magazine rack, is that Reeva is now laying on the floor, in the undisturbed blood pools, out of the bullet trajectories, and somehow manages to get her shattered right arm up onto the toilet seat.

BIB Nest testified that her arm was the source of the one "blood pool" on the WC floor, at the magazine rack. The brachial artery in her right arm was severed so it produced "heavy bleeding," and that created the one "blood pool." So her arm was never over the toilet. The "heavy bleeding" in to the toilet was caused by the severed artery and damage to other structures within her head and brain.

Nest referred to the other blood that you see in the bathroom as "blood stains," not "blood pools."

 

[shane13]

Here ya go. I have the video cued up at the point where Nel asks him about that comment and then OP's answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZaPV4dc4VcM#t=145

Thank you!
You are right.

I think this may have been a day after he first dened it?

But anyway he admits that's his quote.

But listen at abut 5:00 Nel appears to finally pin him down after OP tries to wiggle out of referring to a human's brain. But then let's him go.

Nel: "You want to respond to that?"

OP: "No Milady."

Nel: "OK you don't have to."

Just when he had him cornered.
Strsnge... JMO

 

[jay-jay]

the lifting is clearly an excuse for the stander call. and a lame one. after the call he immediately picked her up and carried her down the stairs.

she was 5'7" with the slim build of a model.
he was an olympic athlete, with exceptional upper body strength.

i wonder what weight he could gym lift. i think he could pick her up easily.

BIB - yet another total inconsistency, isn't it (and I agree with the rest of what you say there, too).

Also, I can't make out whether he called Stander to ask for help lifting Reeva or whether it was to ask him to call for an ambulance .. he appears to have said both. If he did actually ask him to call for an ambulance, then why did he himself then call Netcare as well?

Absolutely none of this adds up or makes any sense, because it's all fabricated.

 

[TorisMom003]

April 9th was the first day that Nel was able to cross examine OP. I can't find a video of the 2nd session from that day, when Nel first began his cross. At first OP denied ever hearing the phrase "zombie stopper". Nel pressed him on this matter, asking him what would he (OP) say if there was a video of OP being present when that phrase was said. OP said that he would ask to see the video. Then we had the delay while the defense fought tooth and nail to not have the "watermelon shooting" video shown. After the video was shown Nel again asked about zombie stopper to which OP admitted that it was him that said that sentence.