Oscar Pistorius Defense

[Carmelita]

I don't find it strange at all. Nel told him he didn't mean a zombie's brain, but that he was referring to something else (a human's brain). If OP was going to continue denying he was referring to a human he would have responded to Nel's accusation with, "no I wasn't." By retreating and saying he did not want to respond, Nel won the point. He's not going to stay on the topic to give OP the opportunity to deny it again, he's going to move on.

See I thought Oscar made Nel look ludicrous when Oscar made clear that Nel had left off the word zombie purposefully to make it appear that Oscar said something that he did not say. I also think Oscar's reply somewhere along the line that in hindsight it is a statement he wished that he did not make but he did not correlate it to shooting a human.

I do not think the judge is as dull as Mr. Nel may wish. Nel can have a dandy time trying to bully Oscar about, Oscar is not as bright as Nel, nor is Oscar emotionally stable, the judge on the other hand has a pretty good viewing point, is likely very bright and seems to have a solid grasp of reality and a pretty good read of Mr. Nel.

 

[Greater Than]

i looked at the stander comments again...

4:25 9 april, session 1. with roux.
op "i phoned him to ask for help, to help me, come and help, i couldn't pick reeva up, i was struggling to pick her up."

nel hardly mentions stander in the cross examination. nel questions about the netcare call, and the baba call/conversation.

so, on closer inspection, op doesn't really talk about stander giving help picking rs up. just that he wanted 'help' from stander. at the time of the above answer, he was part way through the line regarding his struggle to pick up rs.

nevertheless, i still think he would pick her up easily.

BBM - Of course, because what else could he claim he needed help with? Surely not help covering up the crime . The only "help" that would be acceptable, as the first phone call he made after the shooting, would be help in rendering aid to Reeva.

 

[Viper]

Not sure where this got started, but its really funny!

Judge Masipa's note revealed:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Timss86B/status/455029985347403776

 

[homegirl]

BIB Nest testified that her arm was the source of the one "blood pool" on the WC floor, at the magazine rack. The brachial artery in her right arm was severed so it produced "heavy bleeding," and that created the one "blood pool." So her arm was never over the toilet. The "heavy bleeding" in to the toilet was caused by the severed artery and damage to other structures within her head and brain.

Nest referred to the other blood that you see in the bathroom as "blood stains," not "blood pools."

Yes, I should have said blood pool in the singular, thanks. You are so right, her arm was never on the toilet. It is impossible, but that is where OP said it was. He said that her torso was in the corner and that her right arm was on the toilet, with her head on her right shoulder. I took notes on the photo below which Nel showed to OP when asking about where Reeva was in the WC.

I worked up a 3D sequence proving to myself how impossible it was for things to have happened in the WC the way the DT and Op said they did. I posted a graphic and a long winded explanation. Did you see it? It is post #90 on this thread. I would link to it, but I don't know how to do it. I don't get that whole snipping thing.

Sorry if I am not making myself clear. The forum moves so quickly and I find myself taking short cuts.

 

[soozieqtips]

See I thought Oscar made Nel look ludicrous when Oscar made clear that Nel had left off the word zombie purposefully to make it appear that Oscar said something that he did not say. I also think Oscar's reply somewhere along the line that in hindsight it is a statement he wished that he did not make but he did not correlate it to shooting a human.

I do not think the judge is as dull as Mr. Nel may wish. Nel can have a dandy time trying to bully Oscar about, Oscar is not as bright as Nel, nor is Oscar emotionally stable, the judge on the other hand has a pretty good viewing point, is likely very bright and seems to have a solid grasp of reality and a pretty good read of Mr. Nel.

BBM - well, she certainly seems to have a good read of OP, but then I expect she's used to murderers trying to avoid responsibility for their actions. Fortunately, she's known to take a tough stance on crimes against women, and I'm sure all his ridiculous lies and blame shifting haven't escaped her.

 

[Greater Than]

Have you ever seen an elite athlete have a melt down? They are combustible people.

Have elite athletes had a meltdown after defeat? Perhaps. It's called disappointment.

Have elite athletes had a meltdown while 'in the zone'? No. They are focused and have supreme mind control.

Attempting to twist it around and use the fact that he is an accomplished athlete who has competed at the absolute highest level as a defense is absurd. MOO

 

[Viper]

Nel got a huge win when OP agreed to seeing the Zombie video, no question about that. It was theatrics on a grand scale, but still a huge win.

Nel's point is that Reeva's brain was exploded by the very best hollow points that OP could buy. And OP was callous about what the effects of shooting a high powered bullet in to a watermelon were, just as he is callous now by not accepting responsibility for doing the very same thing to Reeva.

Where it gets a little sideways for me is the gun and ammunition that OP used in the video. It was not his 9mm Taurus with Black Talon hollow point cartridges. It was a unique 50 caliber revolver that was used. I remember OP pleading to Masipa that it was a "trail gun" used in America as protection from a bear attack; he was trying to say that he would never consider shooting a person with such a massive handgun. So I understand his pleas for understanding about that gun and that demonstration with the watermelon.

But never the less, IMO if a 50 caliber revolver was the only weapon OP had on that night I do believe he would have used it to murder Reeva, unfortunately.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

See I thought Oscar made Nel look ludicrous when Oscar made clear that Nel had left off the word zombie purposefully to make it appear that Oscar said something that he did not say. I also think Oscar's reply somewhere along the line that in hindsight it is a statement he wished that he did not make but he did not correlate it to shooting a human.

I do not think the judge is as dull as Mr. Nel may wish. Nel can have a dandy time trying to bully Oscar about, Oscar is not as bright as Nel, nor is Oscar emotionally stable, the judge on the other hand has a pretty good viewing point, is likely very bright and seems to have a solid grasp of reality and a pretty good read of Mr. Nel.

I agree and also think the judge is very bright so she will have an equally good read on OP and Roux / Oldwage . She is very articulate .
IMO I don't think Nel was any worse overall than the defence team were with the prosecution witnesses and at the end of the day they are just doing their jobs.
I admire Nel a little more than Roux though as he could be a defence advocate earning an awful lot more money but chooses to prosecute.

 

[nastasya]

See I thought Oscar made Nel look ludicrous when Oscar made clear that Nel had left off the word zombie purposefully to make it appear that Oscar said something that he did not say. I also think Oscar's reply somewhere along the line that in hindsight it is a statement he wished that he did not make but he did not correlate it to shooting a human.

I do not think the judge is as dull as Mr. Nel may wish. Nel can have a dandy time trying to bully Oscar about, Oscar is not as bright as Nel, nor is Oscar emotionally stable, the judge on the other hand has a pretty good viewing point, is likely very bright and seems to have a solid grasp of reality and a pretty good read of Mr. Nel.

Pistorius is an admitted killer of an innocent woman that he berated and bullied, and finally shot through the head. It is exactly his emotional instability that Nel is trying to demonstrate because it is that emotional instability that led him to fire four shots at a person behind a closed door.

Reeva has no voice. She can't speak for herself to let the court know what really happened. Nel is her representative. He is bound by duty to do everything in his power to represent her interests, and the interest of the people to make sure killers like Pistorius are held accountable.

Do you really have a problem with that?

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

OP said his bedroom doors had shrunk up from exposure to humidity and the lock could barely reach from one door to the other. So to secure his door he propped a cricket bat up against them. Sorry, but a locked door was not in his way. The cricket bat was though. LOL!

He is a double amputee. I wish that had never happened to him. And frankly I would have trouble wishing that upon my worst enemy. But he is/was an Olymic runner, and his legs were on the right side of the bed next to where he says Reeva was laying, still asleep. An easy choice, grab his legs and make a safe escape with Reeva? Or go for his gun and run towards a possible death at the hands of Mr. Armed Intruder?

OP testified that his legs were on the right side of the bed next to the window. OP testified that Reeva was sleeping there, next to his legs. I never understood why he wanted his gun to be on the left side of the bed, until just now! Funny!

OP's Defense is just arrogance. No judge, no court, would fall for all of this nonsense.

In OP's house, many strange things happen that defy the laws of physics.

I'm no expert BUT - I've lived in the humid tropics and subtropics most of my life, and here timber swells with increased humidity - doors swell and stick, they don't shrink.

Maybe timber behaves very differently in Oscar World.

 

[Viper]

Yes, I should have said blood pool in the singular, thanks. You are so right, her arm was never on the toilet. It is impossible, but that is where OP said it was. He said that her torso was in the corner and that her right arm was on the toilet, with her head on her right shoulder. I took notes on the photo below which Nel showed to OP when asking about where Reeva was in the WC.

I worked up a 3D sequence proving to myself how impossible it was for things to have happened in the WC the way the DT and Op said they did. I posted a graphic and a long winded explanation. Did you see it? It is post #90 on this thread. I would link to it, but I don't know how to do it. I don't get that whole snipping thing.

Sorry if I am not making myself clear. The forum moves so quickly and I find myself taking short cuts.

View attachment 43204

I usually read this forum on my mobile phone, I am right now, so some images and graphics are hard for me to see very well. I'm sorry but I missed your earlier post too. Oh wait, I do recall seeing it. You and Lisa were discussing it as a work in progress. I'll look for it again later when I get home.

With the Internet connection going in and out many times during this trial I missed OP saying that Reeva's arm was over the toilet. I'm not sure why he needs to lie about that. Her right arm was clinging to her body by just some small amount of tissue, her humerus was completely fractured, and a major artery (brachial) was completely severed. All of that was above her elbow. So I suppose it is possible for her hand and lower arm to be resting under her head, but that is not what Magena described exactly. He felt that her whole body just went immediately limp after the shot to her brain and all of her crashed downwards. So maybe there is some ballistics related reason yet to come as to why OP would lie about Reeva's arm being on the toilet. Wish this trial was over!!!

 

[Greater Than]

Pistorius is an admitted killer of an innocent woman that he berated and bullied, and finally shot through the head. It is exactly his emotional instability that Nel is trying to demonstrate because it is that emotional instability that led him to fire four shots at a person behind a closed door.

Reeva has no voice. She can't speak for herself to let the court know what really happened. Nel is her representative. He is bound by duty to do everything in his power to represent her interests, and the interest of the people to make sure killers like Pistorius are held accountable.

Do you really have a problem with that?

BBM - Respectfully, I disagree. I think the exact opposite. Nel is trying to demonstrate that OP is a very stable, calculated, cold-blooded murderer.

 

[Viper]

In OP's house, many strange things happen that defy the laws of physics.

I'm no expert BUT - I've lived in the humid tropics and subtropics most of my life, and here timber swells with increased humidity - doors swell and stick, they don't shrink.

Maybe timber behaves very differently in Oscar World.

LOL!!! I know! It was so incredible to hear him say that they shrunk, and then later he said it again!

I recall him saying something different about it during Nel's cross examination, but I have not yet been able to find that part of his testimony. He talked about the doors to Nel as he was describing his running back upstairs to get Reeva's ID in her purse. Whenever I find it I will post it. Or if someone else finds it before then please share what he says. I think he may have corrected it to swell from shrunk, but I am not sure anymore after hearing him say shrunk twice to Roux.

 

[nastasya]

BBM - Respectfully, I disagree. I think the exact opposite. Nel is trying to demonstrate that OP is a very stable, calculated, cold-blooded murderer.

Good point.

 

[lisasalinger]

the images are a great help, thank you.
i agree there appears to have been an event/altercation around the bedroom door too.

your first image also shows blood drips on the floor to the right. as if he moved over to the right. if he carried rs through the open double doors surely these would be more central.

the dents in the door also look like cricket bat marks to me, caused by the rounded edge of the bat. [i will be performing dixon-esque follow-up tests at the weekend]

awesome... I look forward to your Dixon-esque results!

 

[BritsKate]

Yes, I should have said blood pool in the singular, thanks. You are so right, her arm was never on the toilet. It is impossible, but that is where OP said it was. He said that her torso was in the corner and that her right arm was on the toilet, with her head on her right shoulder. I took notes on the photo below which Nel showed to OP when asking about where Reeva was in the WC.

I worked up a 3D sequence proving to myself how impossible it was for things to have happened in the WC the way the DT and Op said they did. I posted a graphic and a long winded explanation. Did you see it? It is post #90 on this thread. I would link to it, but I don't know how to do it. I don't get that whole snipping thing.

Sorry if I am not making myself clear. The forum moves so quickly and I find myself taking short cuts.

View attachment 43204

RBBM

All you do is go to the post you want to link to and click the number of the post in the top right corner. The post will open in a new tab all by it's lonesome. Copy the url address (I ctrl+A, then right click to copy). Then you can either paste it in your post like this:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Oscar Pistorius Defense


Or you can use the global hyperlink button to paste the url into (it looks like a world with a linked chain on the posting screen) and do something like this:

homegirl's awesome, amazing 3D reconstruction post


(You just type over the portion that's highlighted to rename it.)

Hope that helps!

 

[BritsKate]

I agree and also think the judge is very bright so she will have an equally good read on OP and Roux / Oldwage . She is very articulate .
IMO I don't think Nel was any worse overall than the defence team were with the prosecution witnesses and at the end of the day they are just doing their jobs.
I admire Nel a little more than Roux though as he could be a defence advocate earning an awful lot more money but chooses to prosecute.

I often get the feeling some don't realise the weight of the job of prosecutors. Some jurors have had to pursue counseling after just one trial spent studying crime scene photos of the worst brutality visited upon children. Can anyone even begin to imagine what seeing that does to people (first responders, law enforcement, and prosecutors) whose very jobs force them to view those scenes daily?

Specific to prosecutors, they're also often expected to juggle many cases at once; they're tasked with keeping our societies safer - a heavy burden; they're restricted by budget and time constantly; they work for peanuts compared to those who practice privately; and very often they're targeted, threatened, and sometimes killed simply because of what they do for a living. Nel himself was arrested by 20 officers, in front of his wife and children, while pursuing charges against SAPS national police commissioner Jackie Selebi, for corruption. Two years later he won a conviction against Selebi.

To still be prosecuting, after being targeted himself, shows a great deal about his level of dedication and commitment, in my opinion.

 

[kittychi]

Have you ever seen an elite athlete have a melt down? They are combustible people.

That is exactly what I think OP had, a meltdown.

Combustible people must still take responsibility for their own actions.

 

[shane13]

In OP's house, many strange things happen that defy the laws of physics.

I'm no expert BUT - I've lived in the humid tropics and subtropics most of my life, and here timber swells with increased humidity - doors swell and stick, they don't shrink.

Maybe timber behaves very differently in Oscar World.

Excellent post.
Your physics is sound.

Yes, in Oscar-World, concentration gradients flow in the opposite direction to our world.

I guess I have to coin another new term.
Oscar-Physics.

As the leading deciperer of Oscar World and Oscar-Speak, I have to say that we've seen Oscar-Physics before.

Triggers move even though Oscar said he did not pull them. Newton's laws of motion are not in effect in Oscar-World.

Keep those examples coming, Bobbie.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Excellent post.
Your physics is sound.

Yes, in Oscar-World, concentration gradients flow in the opposite direction to our world.

I guiess I have to coin another new term.
Oscar-Physics.

As the leading deciperer of Oscar World and Oscar-Speak, I have to say that we've seen Oscar-Physics before.

Triggers move even though Oscar said he did not pull them. Newton's laws of motion are not in effect in Oscar-World.

Keep those examples coming, Bobbie.

I must confess that Oscar-Speak does my head in. I like to think that I'm fairly logical, and I also have a silly tendency to believe what people say. Over the years, I've learnt, usually to my detriment, that many people lie!!??

So, when I listen to OP's Oscar-speak on the stand, my thinking goes into a weird spasm. This is particularly the case when what he's describing is illogical (ie most of the time), and also when he blatantly contradicts himself saying that he didn't say something that he had said earlier in his testimony.

Part of my brain says "that's not what he said earlier", and then the "wanting to believe" part of my brain says "maybe I misheard him". When other Websleuthers confirm that he did actually say two contradictory things, my brain says "why would he be so stupid to do that?" - ie it's illogical.

Shane, I'm very grateful that you've introduced the forum to Oscar-Speak and Oscar-World. I'm getting the hang of Oscar-Speak, but it still makes no sense -probably because it doesn't.

There are many points about which I've thought "Why doesn't Nel challenge OP on that?" However, a larger part of my brain says "If he did, we'd still be on page 1of OP's testimony and would have many more months of Oscar-Speak to listen to."