Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #62 ~ the appeal~

[cottonweaver]

I missed that and didn't realise her absence coincided with that evidence. Mmmm.

The camera would have zoomed in for sure on sister during that evidence. But I think your earlier question is the more significant one. A lawyer would tell us to start at first base and ask ourselves does it seem a normal thing to do ( following Judge Fritz Brand's view on foreseeability, reasonabilty etc.)

Would I take the bag for "safekeeping" , would my female friends do it as diverse as they are? In those circumstances? I need to think it through and give others the floor.

 

[cottonweaver]

Did you think it an odd conclusion of her`s that because he was so distraught after the shooting that meant he couldn`t have intended to do it? That seemed quite bizarre thinking: that being remorseful after doing something means you can`t have intended to do it. I am sure many crimes of passion, which is what this was IMO, are instances of rage, violence and immediate regret. We can even think of much more ordinary examples in our own lives when in the heat of an argument you say something cutting which you immediately wish you could take back.

Only just seen that post from you.
Yes absolutely, howler no.2 and roundly derided by all the legal commentators - they were baffled by that nonsense. It's one of those "you could not make it up" moments....

 

[Colin de France]

...late night party ........or early morning ...;

 

[Deleted member 102539]

#125 Trotterly

We will see another 5 judges suddenly becoming incompetent as well.

or bribed

or senile

or too inexperienced

or uncle Arnold's mates

etc

etc


etc......


*sigh*

If the 5 judges are bored and impatient whenever the prosecutor has something to say and prove and if the 5 judges are extremely interested and very particularly patient whenever the defence has somthing to say and prove, then come to a completely incomprehensible judgment incl. absurd justification - THEN: yes, the assessment will be devastating. No wonder, it seems to me.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, it would have been but that doesn't alter the point that the professionals who interviewed and tested him over the course of many days know what they are doing. The advantages of training, experience and having actually met him (!) are a good basis for their views I'd say - which were generally pretty positive about him in fact.

OP still had been on the survive trip during this time, don't forget! As a potent fighter he had to get through by hiding his true character and his true feelings masterfully, I think.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

...late night party ........or early morning ...;

4:22 am and I can't sleep as usually but will try again now. fftobed:

 

[aftermath]

Nah - aftermaths post that GADs not even a real disorder acc to aftermath and Dr Vorster, acc to aftermath. It's only a page or 2 back!

I think Vorster does at least know her DSM versions!

This is the post I think you are referring to, from the same page:

'I agree. Roux was very clear that they were not arguing any kind of mental incapacity. They made it clear before the 30 day assessment that Pistorius knew right from wrong and wasn't claiming mental illness as a factor. I think Vorster herself even said that GAD was not an illness as such...'


Clearly there is no suggestion that GAD is 'not even a real disorder'. The point was that the dr did not class it as a mental illness and that it would not have compromised pistorius's ability to tell right from wrong and therefore was not part of a 'mental incapacity' defence strategy.

 

[Estelle]

Oscar Pistorius: what will he do when he gets out of jail?

This is the question that is bothering me at the moment

http://www.theweek.co.uk/oscar-pist...rius-what-will-he-do-when-he-gets-out-of-jail

The conditions of his release are yet to be made public, but they typically include

a daily period of house arrest,

compulsory treatment programmes,

abstinence from alcohol or drugs

community service.

Offenders may also be given regular support sessions with social workers.

Will Pistorius carry out community service? eg cleaning or working with children?

Will Pistorius return to athletics?

Where will Pistorius live?

Will he flee by road to Mosambique where there is no extradition agreement with SA?

 

[lithgow1]

Might be because I'm tired but ....why is this a coincidence?

Because she attended court every single day except for the one when evidence was given about how she took the handbag. Might mean nothing, might mean that Ms Pistorius didn`t want to be in the media spotlight on the day that her dodgy actions came to light.

Don`t you find it strange that she takes Reeva Steenkamp`s handbag from the crime scene when she barely knew RS and didn`t know her mother at all? I do.

 

[katydid23]

Oscar Pistorius: what will he do when he gets out of jail?

This is the question that is bothering me at the moment

http://www.theweek.co.uk/oscar-pist...rius-what-will-he-do-when-he-gets-out-of-jail

The conditions of his release are yet to be made public, but they typically include

a daily period of house arrest,

compulsory treatment programmes,

abstinence from alcohol or drugs

community service.

Offenders may also be given regular support sessions with social workers.

Will Pistorius carry out community service? eg cleaning or working with children?

Will Pistorius return to athletics?

Where will Pistorius live?

Will he flee by road to Mosambique where there is no extradition agreement with SA?

No way that he will go back to athletics. Maybe he can coach or teach, but he cannot compete, imo.

Where will he live? His Uncle's basement maybe?

No chance of him 'cleaning' or doing anything menial as community service. They will give him something like 'public appearances' for special needs kids or something. Or coaching at the Special Olympics.

 

[lithgow1]

No way that he will go back to athletics. Maybe he can coach or teach, but he cannot compete, imo.

Where will he live? His Uncle's basement maybe?

No chance of him 'cleaning' or doing anything menial as community service. They will give him something like 'public appearances' for special needs kids or something. Or coaching at the Special Olympics.

I agree that he won`t go back to competing. Very few organisations would want him at their events these days IMO. It will be interesting to see what type of community service he gets. They may try to give him something slightly glamorous (he definitely wouldn`t want to do cleaning!) but now that his fame has become infamy that might be a bit tricky.

If he lives at his uncle`s house, I wonder if his uncle will need to remove all the guns he uses to shoot elephants? You would like to think that part of his release conditions would include no access to guns. There will be a special cupboard in the house that Oscar is not allowed to touch, like a kid with the china cabinet!

 

[aftermath]

I agree that he won`t go back to competing. Very few organisations would want him at their events these days IMO. It will be interesting to see what type of community service he gets. They may try to give him something slightly glamorous (he definitely wouldn`t want to do cleaning!) but now that his fame has become infamy that might be a bit tricky.

If he lives at his uncle`s house, I wonder if his uncle will need to remove all the guns he uses to shoot elephants? You would like to think that part of his release conditions would include no access to guns. There will be a special cupboard in the house that Oscar is not allowed to touch, like a kid with the china cabinet!

I would have thought that permanently revoking his gun licence would suffice.

 

[Trotterly]

Because she attended court every single day except for the one when evidence was given about how she took the handbag. Might mean nothing, might mean that Ms Pistorius didn`t want to be in the media spotlight on the day that her dodgy actions came to light.

Don`t you find it strange that she takes Reeva Steenkamp`s handbag from the crime scene when she barely knew RS and didn`t know her mother at all? I do.

I think the reason she gave was that she wanted Reeva's mother to have it at such a time.

Do I think this particular behaviour is strange when her brother has just accidentally shot his girlfriend? I don't really have the experience to draw upon to say if it is strange or not but I can believe her motives.

Remember that even if OP did murder Reeva he was telling everyone and anyone that it was an accident. Do you really believe that his sister would have believed otherwise or that OP would have risked telling anyone the truth?

 

[katydid23]

I would have thought that permanently revoking his gun licence would suffice.

I don't know the policy in SA, but in the US, a felon cannot live in a home where someone has firearms.

 

[Colin de France]

............going back to the PAI assessment which is well known in the Mental Health domain, this assessment has a 75% chance of working, no questions are asked of an psychologically investigative nature, the test is principally based around the patients history and family background in the form of questions and awnser's. What i did find disturbing in this report were certain statements of a legal dimension such as the definitive "Mr Pistorius is mourning the loss of Ms Steenkamp", for me that is not being legally objective and more in the way of influencing the court..........how could anyone know if he was mourning her or not, it's so easy to pull the wool over peoples eyes and cry over someone else when in fact i'm crying for my own situation even more so when one is calculative and manipulative such as Pistorius...........

 

[GR_Turner]

Whilst i don't like to reply late and clutter Lithgow's current points on the next page - I only just saw your post.

If it's correct that she was sleeping with OP at the same time that Op was sleeping with RS, you may well find it has a bearing.
Damning stuff you say? Well yes, it could be the blue touch paper couldn't it?
If she was a source of arguments that night - that's the word amongst their circle of friends. Acc to the psych interview with Stoltz i just read Babbi Shooz was indeed the love of his life. Other than support him in this interview, I'd want to keep my head down if I was in her shoes. Oh, she has done.
Keen to help him out you say incredulously.....see my previous point and I admire your "sheltered" life experience if you have never seen this kind of thing before.

Who has said she was still sleeping with him though? They had a phone conversation not an assignation in a hotel room. I was being sarcastic about it being damning stuff. If you think about it, Jenna would have a greater incentive to say bad things about him thereby joining the club denouncing him than to stick to her line that he was a nice boyfriend. Look at Sam - she couldn't wait to tell everyone how awful he was and then in court it amounted to very, very little. No violence, he shouted a few times at her and her friends... After her twitter comments I was expecting to hear something more than that.

 

[lithgow1]

I think the reason she gave was that she wanted Reeva's mother to have it at such a time.

Do I think this particular behaviour is strange when her brother has just accidentally shot his girlfriend? I don't really have the experience to draw upon to say if it is strange or not but I can believe her motives.

Remember that even if OP did murder Reeva he was telling everyone and anyone that it was an accident. Do you really believe that his sister would have believed otherwise or that OP would have risked telling anyone the truth?

Yes that is the reason she gave but it still rings a little odd. Reeva`s mother would have rec`vd it in due course so I see no need for her to remove what could be potential evidence from a crime scene. But it may have been done solely out of sympathy for sure.

I agree that at the time Pistorius would have confided in no one had he murdered her. A bit down the track, I think it is possible that if he killed her deliberately then his brother and/or uncle may know the truth. I have no evidence for that of course, it is just a `feeling' which counts for zero I know. Again, just another impression, but there is something quite creepy about Uncle Arnold IMO.

 

[GR_Turner]

............going back to the PAI assessment which is well known in the Mental Health domain, this assessment has a 75% chance of working, no questions are asked of an psychologically investigative nature, the test is principally based around the patients history and family background in the form of questions and awnser's. What i did find disturbing in this report were certain statements of a legal dimension such as the definitive "Mr Pistorius is mourning the loss of Ms Steenkamp", for me that is not being legally objective and more in the way of influencing the court..........how could anyone know if he was mourning her or not, it's so easy to pull the wool over peoples eyes and cry over someone else when in fact i'm crying for my own situation even more so when one is calculative and manipulative such as Pistorius...........

This isn't a legal statement. It's the professional opinion of a qualified psychologist. Have you said what your qualifications are?

 

[lithgow1]

So... Police compromise the crime scene but thankfully not the photos that suggest a duvet could have fallen on the floor.. ;a police chief expresses disappointment that watches were stolen, but it wasn't police it was amy pistorius/carice stander based on no evidence at all; Pistorius’s auntie prepped him on how to fool a panel of qualified psychologists/ psychiatrists....; pistorius also faked ptsd symptoms at key moments; the judge suddenly became incompetent when on her initial appointment people were happy with her integrity, competence and hard line on DV; the Pistorius family- like some kind of illuminati 'disappeared' urine and blood samples; a panel of psych experts were fooled by Pistorius's charm/acting or dazzled by his former powerful status; pistorius - who (it was claimed) has a pattern of stroppy tantrums, decides this one night to stalk reeva in virtual silence as no angry male voice is heard. Worse than this, he has the brazen nerve to call for help before shooting his girlfriend- so confident that he can kill her through a door before anyone nearby calls for help. They have a blazing row for almost an hour before this but only reeva is heard. (Although they both go silent at the moment the security go past on their nightly rounds...)...

Just a few of the odd things that make up the arguments against Pistorius. ..

So don`t you believe those claims? There were quite a lot of them from various sources and in a range of situations so I see no reason to disregard them in favour of his Mr Nice Guy image.

 

[Colin de France]

This isn't a legal statement. It's the professional opinion of a qualified psychologist. Have you said what your qualifications are?

.......awnser my post if you can.....for my personal détails, don't even bother asking.........attack the post not the poster....the test was nothing but a waste of time, it skimmed over the character had no depth to it and on occasions ventured into the legal domain........