Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #62 ~ the appeal~

[Colin de France]

I think all South Africans are very aware of the intruder scenario. There are so many murders of this type in SA that it would be difficult not to know. It must be ingrained. Since OP's case this has been referred to in the press as the Pistorius Defence.

.....bearing in mind he knew Reeva was in the WC.......i'm trying to see how that would help the most.........for all four bullets or just for the last three ? I have to admit i find it hard to imagine that he would of fired the first shot with this scenario in mind as an eventual excuse.........which i have said from the start .......but it's on a fine line....

 

[Interested Bystander]

....if this is so, can you imagine the speed he calculated this out........apparently he was a big fan of TV legal documentaries, i wonder if he was already aware of the intruder scenario........

The obsession with violent crimedisplayed by some middle-class white people in South Africa, usually in fearfuldiscussions at dinner parties and on radio talk shows, has become something ofa cliché. “

http://theconversation.com/the-pistorius-defence-and-the-fear-that-grips-white-south-africa-25559

This is not the Pistorius Defence I was talking of as this article is about his defence but the rider about it being an obsession in SA is relevant, I feel.

 

[aftermath]

....."calm down Ba Ba it's only me having a pee pee" ............!

??? How is this a response to my post?

 

[Colin de France]

??? How is this a response to my post?

.......we really aren't on the same wave length.......don't you think with having been asked to phone the police and him shouting down the corridor like a madman Reeva wouldn't of said something ........if she was in the toilet.........

 

[aftermath]

.......we really aren't on the same wave length.......don't you think with having been asked to phone the police and him shouting down the corridor like a madman Reeva wouldn't of said something ........if she was in the toilet.........

Not if she thought there could be an armed intruder approaching, no.

 

[Colin de France]

Not if she thought there could be an armed intruder approaching, no.

.....approaching from where ?...........

 

[aftermath]

.....approaching from where ?...........

Perhaps from down the passageway, as she would have heard her boyfriend getting closer and shouting as he did so?

 

[Colin de France]

Perhaps from down the passageway, as she would have heard her boyfriend getting closer and shouting as he did so?

...but she would have passed them on the way to the toilet..........?

 

[soozieqtips]

Do I? How strange.

Don't you think the location where reeva was initially standing could have made any difference at all?

As everyone is responding to everyone else's questions, I'm going to chime in and ask why you think he didn't empty his gun. He stopped shooting when Reeva stopped screaming because he knew he'd killed her and didn't need to waste any more bullets.

So where she was standing wouldn't have made any difference to her survival, as OP made absolutely sure she was dead (dying) before he stopped shooting. As soon as the screaming stopped, so did the shooting. Reeva had no chance at all as OP would have carried on firing into the door until he'd killed her, which is what he did.

Don't forget OP denied that any female screamed at all that night, so it's highly suspicious that he stopped firing when the screaming (that he didn't hear) stopped. Sounds pretty much like he intended to kill whoever was behind the door no matter what.

 

[aftermath]

...but she would have passed them on the way to the toilet..........?

Why? Who's to say that she would assume any intruder had to come through the bathroom window? That was pistorius's assumption. Perhaps she thought they might have forced the bedroom door? Perhaps she thought they had climbed up onto the balcony and come in through the patio doors that Pistorius had been locking. Perhaps she didn't give much thought to how/where they came in, trusting instead in the sound of fear and panic in her boyfriend's voice?

 

[aftermath]

As everyone is responding to everyone else's questions, I'm going to chime in and ask why you think he didn't empty his gun. He stopped shooting when Reeva stopped screaming because he knew he'd killed her and didn't need to waste any more bullets.

So where she was standing wouldn't have made any difference to her survival, as OP made absolutely sure she was dead (dying) before he stopped shooting. As soon as the screaming stopped, so did the shooting. Reeva had no chance at all as OP would have carried on firing into the door until he'd killed her, which is what he did.

Don't forget OP denied that any female screamed at all that night, so it's highly suspicious that he stopped firing when the screaming (that he didn't hear) stopped. Sounds pretty much like he intended to kill whoever was behind the door no matter what.

Depends on whether the first or second set of bangs were the gunshots though. I think it was probably the first set-heard before witnesses noticed any screaming.

 

[soozieqtips]

Depends on whether the first or second set of bangs were the gunshots though. I think it was probably the first set-heard before witnesses noticed any screaming.

I'm not sure what your answer is. Why didn't he empty his gun, and why did he only fire four bullets? That was the question. If you're in absolute fear for your life (as OP claimed to be) why wouldn't you carry on firing till you ran out of bullets? Why stop unless you knew you'd killed your target?

 

[aftermath]

I'm not sure what your answer is. Why didn't he empty his gun, and why did he only fire four bullets? That was the question. If you're in absolute fear for your life (as OP claimed to be) why wouldn't you carry on firing till you ran out of bullets? Why stop unless you knew you'd killed your target?

Sorry- wasn't trying to duck the question- was answering the bit about screams and firing. Didn't he say he stopped when he realised what was happening? I haven't found any studies to say that people always empty their gun in a panic firing. ..

 

[soozieqtips]

Sorry- wasn't trying to duck the question- was answering the bit about screams and firing. Didn't he say he stopped when he realised what was happening? I haven't found any studies to say that people always empty their gun in a panic firing. ..

BIB - pardon? Who said anything about studies? Or is that your attempt at more sarcasm? And what do you mean he said he stopped when he realised what was happening - when what was happening, exactly? After shooting 4 times, he stopped because.....?

OP claimed he was in fear for his life, terrified that an (invisible) intruder was about to come out of the toilet and attack him - remember that part? His whole defence was based on how he was petrified that he was just about to be attacked - so, bearing that in mind (and without the need for "studies"...) does it make sense that someone so scared, so frightened and so sure he was in danger of an imminent attack, would leave bullets in his gun before he was sure he'd annihilated his target?

Of course it doesn't make sense. What does make sense, however, is that he didn't need to use all his bullets because he knew full well he'd already killed Reeva. I'll go with what makes logical sense (based on his own actions) and you can carry on trying to prove that his actions were reasonable.

 

[GR_Turner]

BIB - pardon? Who said anything about studies? Or is that your attempt at more sarcasm? And what do you mean he said he stopped when he realised what was happening - when what was happening, exactly? After shooting 4 times, he stopped because.....?

OP claimed he was in fear for his life, terrified that an (invisible) intruder was about to come out of the toilet and attack him - remember that part? His whole defence was based on how he was petrified that he was just about to be attacked - so, bearing that in mind (and without the need for "studies"...) does it make sense that someone so scared, so frightened and so sure he was in danger of an imminent attack, would leave bullets in his gun before he was sure he'd annihilated his target?

Of course it doesn't make sense. What does make sense, however, is that he didn't need to use all his bullets because he knew full well he'd already killed Reeva. I'll go with what makes logical sense (based on his own actions) and you can carry on trying to prove that his actions were reasonable.

Are you arguing that someone trying to eliminate a target would continue firing until all his bullets were used? So on that logic in firing 4 shots he wasn't trying to do that?

The evidence is that the screaming died away in the seconds after the final shot so how did he know at that point that the screaming was about to stop? Surely if he wanted to be sure he'd have fired 2 or 3 more shots after the screams ended (assuming he could hear them). I'd also expect someone who was trying to kill someone he could hear falling to shoot lower down as they fell and not at roughly the same height. I can't see how your claim makes any sense in any case as he'd be virtually deafened by his first shot surely.

 

[Trotterly]

Are you arguing that someone trying to eliminate a target would continue firing until all his bullets were used? So on that logic in firing 4 shots he wasn't trying to do that?

The evidence is that the screaming died away in the seconds after the final shot so how did he know at that point that the screaming was about to stop? Surely if he wanted to be sure he'd have fired 2 or 3 more shots after the screams ended (assuming he could hear them). I'd also expect someone who was trying to kill someone he could hear falling to shoot lower down as they fell and not at roughly the same height. I can't see how your claim makes any sense in any case as he'd be virtually deafened by his first shot surely.

Nice.

 

[Colin de France]

The evidence is that the screaming died away in the seconds after the final shot so how did he know at that point that the screaming was about to stop?

......Nice......so now you're agreeing the evidence of screams......assuming that it wasn't Father Christmas having slipped off his chimney i would imagine you're referring to Reeva's screams.....and yes you're quite right there is evidence that Reeva screamed...........oh whoops doesn't that make Pistorius a murderer...........

 

[aftermath]

BIB - pardon? Who said anything about studies? Or is that your attempt at more sarcasm? And what do you mean he said he stopped when he realised what was happening - when what was happening, exactly? After shooting 4 times, he stopped because.....?

OP claimed he was in fear for his life, terrified that an (invisible) intruder was about to come out of the toilet and attack him - remember that part? His whole defence was based on how he was petrified that he was just about to be attacked - so, bearing that in mind (and without the need for "studies"...) does it make sense that someone so scared, so frightened and so sure he was in danger of an imminent attack, would leave bullets in his gun before he was sure he'd annihilated his target?

Of course it doesn't make sense. What does make sense, however, is that he didn't need to use all his bullets because he knew full well he'd already killed Reeva. I'll go with what makes logical sense (based on his own actions) and you can carry on trying to prove that his actions were reasonable.

Wow- now steady on- I apologised for not answering your original question and then tried to answer it. I was not being sarcastic with you in the slightest. I have been trying to find articles/studies on how some people shoot multiple times when in a gunfight/attack but have not seen anything to say they always empty their guns. I think there is a place for referring to prior research/studies/ examples/articles, to help form an informed opinion.

He said he shot because he thought he was under imminent attack, that the wood noise made him think the door was about to open/opening, and that the noise itself startled/panicked him into firing. Perhaps at four he realised the door hadn't opened and the attack hadn't happened? So yes- it makes sense that he didn't empty the gun to 'annihilate' the threat as his purpose may simply have been to defend against attack and once he realised the attack wasn't happening he stopped.

 

[Colin de France]

He said he shot because he thought he was under imminent attack, that the wood noise made him think the door was about to open/opening, and that the noise itself startled/panicked him into firing. Perhaps at four he realised the door hadn't opened and the attack hadn't happened? So yes- it makes sense that he didn't empty the gun to 'annihilate' the threat as his purpose may simply have been to defend against attack and once he realised the attack wasn't happening he stopped.

........after having asked them to "get out" he blast's them to death.......knowing guns as he does and the the very small space of the WC and after having fired four shots of dumb dumb bullets he suddenly became overwhelmed with compassion and decided to stop shooting (cynical ridicule)........he knew fully well no one could have survived that, it's for that reason he stopped went back and put his legs on......he knew it was over.

 

[aftermath]

........after having asked them to "get out" he blast's them to death.......knowing guns as he does and the the very small space of the WC and after having fired four shots of dumb dumb bullets he suddenly became overwhelmed with compassion and decided to stop shooting (ridicule)........he knew fully well no one could have survived that, it's for that reason he stopped went back and put his legs on......he knew it was over.

If that's what you believe- so be it. Plenty of others think the same or similar.

It's not the only possible way to see it, however