Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #62 ~ the appeal~

[Colin de France]

If that's what you believe- so be it. Plenty of others think the same or similar.

......yes you're quite right.....the Pistorius fan club is getting smaller by the minute.........

 

[aftermath]

......yes you're quite right.....the Pistorius fan club is getting smaller by the minute.........

I wouldn't know. But if you feel the need to try and undermine or belittle an opinion that doesn't sit alongside your own by slipping in snipey 'fan club' comments, it rather reduces the strength of your own arguments.

 

[Colin de France]

I wouldn't know. But if you feel the need to try and undermine or belittle an opinion that doesn't sit alongside your own by slipping in snipey 'fan club' comments, it rather reduces the strength of your own arguments.

.....i don't find my comments "snipey" at all.....i quite like them actually.........you haven't given me one good reason to doubt my opinion, in fact the reverse, it's never been so strong.......

 

[soozieqtips]

Are you arguing that someone trying to eliminate a target would continue firing until all his bullets were used? So on that logic in firing 4 shots he wasn't trying to do that?

The evidence is that the screaming died away in the seconds after the final shot so how did he know at that point that the screaming was about to stop? Surely if he wanted to be sure he'd have fired 2 or 3 more shots after the screams ended (assuming he could hear them). I'd also expect someone who was trying to kill someone he could hear falling to shoot lower down as they fell and not at roughly the same height. I can't see how your claim makes any sense in any case as he'd be virtually deafened by his first shot surely.

BIB 1 - You've missed the point entirely. He stopped shooting after he knew he'd killed her. If she'd stopped screaming after 2 shots, he'd have stopped after 2 shots. It took 4 shots to kill her, so that's when he stopped. He didn't need to empty his gun because Reeva was dead before he had to!

BIB 2 - Are you referring to the screaming he said never happened? Maybe he was repositioning himself (again) to take another shot when he realised it had all gone quiet and his job was done.

BIB 3 - Only if you believe what he said about not being able to hear, and I choose not to believe him. Do you remember him insisting that no female screamed that night? If he was conveniently deafened by the shots, how could he possibly know if a "female" had screamed or not? If he were telling the truth, why didn't he just say that he couldn't be sure as his hearing had been compromised? Why insist something couldn't have happened when he couldn't be sure? Hmm. Perhaps because he was lying again.

 

[GR_Turner]

BIB 1 - You've missed the point entirely. He stopped shooting after he knew he'd killed her. If she'd stopped screaming after 2 shots, he'd have stopped after 2 shots. It took 4 shots to kill her, so that's when he stopped. He didn't need to empty his gun because Reeva was dead before he had to!

BIB 2 - Are you referring to the screaming he said never happened? Maybe he was repositioning himself (again) to take another shot when he realised it had all gone quiet and his job was done.

BIB 3 - Only if you believe what he said about not being able to hear, and I choose not to believe him. Do you remember him insisting that no female screamed that night? If he was conveniently deafened by the shots, how could he possibly know if a "female" had screamed or not? If he were telling the truth, why didn't he just say that he couldn't be sure as his hearing had been compromised? Why insist something couldn't have happened when he couldn't be sure? Hmm. Perhaps because he was lying again.

Do you think he could hear after the first gunshot? If so, given how loud a gunshot would sound, does that actually make sense to you? And if so then don't you think his hearing would be impaired at the least?

And if he could hear her then he could hear her falling. So why don't the shots start high up (in fact why don't they start at around chest height if he really wanted to kill her) and then get lower as he heard her fall?

 

[Trotterly]

Do you think he could hear after the first gunshot? If so, given how loud a gunshot would sound, does that actually make sense to you? And if so then don't you think his hearing would be impaired at the least?

And if he could hear her then he could hear her falling. So why don't the shots start high up (in fact why don't they start at around chest height if he really wanted to kill her) and then get lower as he heard her fall?

Nel really shot himself in the foot when he was trying to disprove PPD and asked OP where he would have aimed if he intended to kill.

 

[Colin de France]

So why don't the shots start high up (in fact why don't they start at around chest height if he really wanted to kill her) and then get lower as he heard her fall?

........one doesn't need to shoot at chest height to kill..... liver height is already largely enough, but in anycase as he was using dumb dumb bullets the subject is academic......imagine just what one bullet of this type would do to the stomach............

 

[lithgow1]

Nel really shot himself in the foot when he was trying to disprove PPD and asked OP where he would have aimed if he intended to kill.

The pathologist said that the wounds that resulted to her arm and hip had in and of themselves the capacity to kill. The arm shot almost severed the limb. As has been pointed out, repeatedly, he chose the ammo, loaded the gun with that ammo, and fired that ammo fully aware of the capacity of those `zombie stoppers' and their likely effect in the small space he was firing into in which he knew there was a human being. He knew well enough to not risk the dangers of a warning shot because of ricochet. Now it`s your turn for `Excuse for Oscar # 74`.

 

[aftermath]

The pathologist said that the wounds that resulted to her arm and hip had in and of themselves the capacity to kill. The arm shot almost severed the limb. As has been pointed out, repeatedly, he chose the ammo, loaded the gun with that ammo, and fired that ammo fully aware of the capacity of those `zombie stoppers' and their likely effect in the small space he was firing into in which he knew there was a human being. He knew well enough to not risk the dangers of a warning shot because of ricochet. Now it`s your turn for `Excuse for Oscar # 74`.

Based on what you think probably happened, why would Pistorius shout for help before shooting Reeva?

 

[lithgow1]

Based on what you think probably happened, why would Pistorius shout for help before shooting Reeva?

That has got nothing to do with what I posted.

 

[aftermath]

That has got nothing to do with what I posted.

It does in a roundabout way because some people believe the whole incident was a heat of the moment, not-really-thinking-just-reacting kind of thing, whereas others seem to believe that it was a more considered he-was-definitely-thinking thing.
I wondered where the three helps prior to shooting fit in with what you believe to be his level of awareness about what he was doing (ammo choice, choice to use gun, awareness of impact of small cubicle size and subsequent chance of killing someone inside etc)

 

[lithgow1]

It does in a roundabout way because some people believe the whole incident was a heat of the moment, not-really-thinking-just-reacting kind of thing, whereas others seem to believe that it was a more considered he-was-definitely-thinking thing.
I wondered where the three helps prior to shooting fit in with what you believe to be his level of awareness about what he was doing (ammo choice, choice to use gun, awareness of impact of small cubicle size and subsequent chance of killing someone inside etc)

I think he was completely aware of what he was doing in the moments leading up to her killing and almost immediately horrified at what he had done but also thinking foremost about how he could get out of this. I agree with those that think the first shot was done knowingly but while in a rage and then the others were necessary to silence her.

I also believe that issues such as the swearing he didn`t pull the trigger in Tasha`s stemmed from a belief that he could get off all those charges and the career and sponsors would come back. His uncle was tone deaf enough to public opinion to state during the trial that he wanted to see him back at the olympics!

I imagine you will now ask what the `helps` were all about? I have no problem with the said in sarcasm view. He emerged as a very unpleasant person during the trial so I can imagine this sulky boy-man acting like that. You won`t agree, but no worries. I am confident in my belief that he meant to kill her. If his incredibly far fetched story is actually a case of truth being stranger .... then I have no doubts that he intended to kill the person in the toilet.

 

[Susza]

........good question.......firstly we have the size of the cubicle, then we have bouncing bullets, after that we have the unknown quantity of intruder/s plus the darkness.......the final decision of whether it be "true" or not seems academic.........to say the very least ...!

Regarding P's shooting into the cubicle and his intentional/unintentional??? killing, there was a more than interesting statement P made under oath: when asked why he didn't fire a warning shot elsewhere than into the cubicle he said he was afraid it could ricochet and hurt/kill him.

This is also interesting for those who might think the stressful/threatening??? situation triggered a "tunnel vision" - in this case it was a tunnel with transparent walls

 

[lithgow1]

Regarding P's shooting into the cubicle and his intentional/unintentional??? killing, there was a more than interesting statement P made under oath: when asked why he didn't fire a warning shot elsewhere than into the cubicle he said he was afraid it could ricochet and hurt/kill him.

There was also another instance during the cross when he was asked about putting the gun down on the floor, safety off, when he was dragging RS out of the cubicle and he said something about how it was stupid because it `could of gone off and hurt me`. Pause. Then he adds `... or hurt Reeva more`. Interesting priorities there but no doubt his supporters will have some psychological explanation as to why that is not so self-centred as it sounds.

 

[Colin de France]

Regarding P's shooting into the cubicle and his intentional/unintentional??? killing, there was a more than interesting statement P made under oath: when asked why he didn't fire a warning shot elsewhere than into the cubicle he said he was afraid it could ricochet and hurt/kill him.

......exactly.......so he couldn't of been in panic if he was using that thought process at the time......

 

[Interested Bystander]

It does in a roundabout way because some people believe the whole incident was a heat of the moment, not-really-thinking-just-reacting kind of thing, whereas others seem to believe that it was a more considered he-was-definitely-thinking thing.
I wondered where the three helps prior to shooting fit in with what you believe to be his level of awareness about what he was doing (ammo choice, choice to use gun, awareness of impact of small cubicle size and subsequent chance of killing someone inside etc)

BIB

I thought the three shouts were after the shooting. Am I misremembering? Are you referring to the ones that Miss Stander alluded to when she was tucked up in bed listening to the dogs barking? Or maybe there was more than one set of "help" and I have inconveniently forgotten. It is becoming a bit of a blur after so much time. Alternatively did Miss Stander get this part of her testimony completely wrong when she said she heard the "help, help, help" because, doubtless, she also would have heard the shots that followed, if that is when you are saying the shots occurred. Something tells me that perhaps "help, help, help" may have been shouted on more than one occasion.

 

[Colin de France]

BIB

I thought the three shouts were after the shooting. Am I misremembering? Are you referring to the ones that Miss Stander alluded to when she was tucked up in bed listening to the dogs barking? Or maybe there was more than one set of "help" and I have inconveniently forgotten. It is becoming a bit of a blur after so much time. Alternatively did Miss Stander get this part of her testimony completely wrong when she said she heard the "help, help, help" because, doubtless, she also would have heard the shots that followed, if that is when you are saying the shots occurred. Something tells me that perhaps "help, help, help" may have been shouted on more than one occasion.

.......he didn't shout for help before shooting apart from the "get out"........... this also the moment when he was shouting for help and screaming like a woman at the same time from the balcony......

 

[lithgow1]

BIB

I thought the three shouts were after the shooting. Am I misremembering? Are you referring to the ones that Miss Stander alluded to when she was tucked up in bed listening to the dogs barking? Or maybe there was more than one set of "help" and I have inconveniently forgotten. It is becoming a bit of a blur after so much time. Alternatively did Miss Stander get this part of her testimony completely wrong when she said she heard the "help, help, help" because, doubtless, she also would have heard the shots that followed, if that is when you are saying the shots occurred. Something tells me that perhaps "help, help, help" may have been shouted on more than one occasion.

My recollection is that he claims to have shouted for help when he ran onto the balcony after shooting her. Which seems an odd thing to do when ringing an ambulance would have brought qualified help there as opposed to simply shouting for help from a balcony at 3.30 in the morning. Then again, his whole `story` is chock a block full of odd and inexplicable things when one examines it with a critical eye.

 

[Colin de France]

Regarding P's shooting into the cubicle and his intentional/unintentional??? killing, there was a more than interesting statement P made under oath: when asked why he didn't fire a warning shot elsewhere than into the cubicle he said he was afraid it could ricochet and hurt/kill him.

.......this also puts into question the "gun just went off" and the “I didn't have time to think,” ...........but it certainly seals the intention to kill ....

Last edited by Colin de France; Today at 03:36 PM.

 

[Colin de France]

.....he didn't want to fire other than into the cubicle because he was afraid the bullets would come back round on him.....ok...but yet he was willing to fire into the cubicle knowing that an unknown quantity of intruder/s were inside (according to him) .........is this murder by recklessness or murder with pre-meditation.......taking into consideration that the thought process was already engaged in beforehand ..........