Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #64 ~ the appeal~

[Deleted member 102539]

On a slightly different note, "Controversial Oscar Pistorius Halloween outfit for sale in UK"
http://www.channel24.co.za/The-Juic...rius-Halloween-outfit-for-sake-in-UK-20151016

"The outfit comes with a pair of black and silver boot covers, black sunglasses and a toy gun."

:floorlaugh:

 

[aftermath]

An emotional June Steenkamp has delivered the domestic violence speech her daughter was planning to give at a high school on the day she was killed by sprinter Oscar Pistorius.

June Steenkamp returned to Reeva's old high school in Port Elizabeth today to talk to students - telling them she had 'no feelings of revenge' towards her daughter's killer.

Her sorrowful tribute comes as Pistorius's uncle was pictured grinning outside the Pretoria mansion where the Paralympian is now serving house arrest.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

BIB - like the two are in any way linked? Dreadful emotional manipulating from the Daily Fail (quelle surprise!)

 

[cottonweaver]

BIB - like the two are in any way linked? Dreadful emotional manipulating from the Daily Fail (quelle surprise!)

Ha ha. Daily Mail is always predictable -quelle surprise.

Suppose it's one way to avoid the focus of the article which is about June, her daughter, the Steenkamp foundation and abuse.

 

[aftermath]

Ha ha. Daily Mail is always predictable -quelle surprise.

Suppose it's one way to avoid the focus of the article which is about June, her daughter, the Steenkamp foundation and abuse.

Not at all..
June has shown amazing fortitude. The Steenkamp foundation is obviously a worthy cause. Domestic abuse is clearly appalling and should be squashed. None of those have anything to do with Uncle Arnold 'grinning' though

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Oscar II - South Africa II

Shaun King: People of privilege seem to be above the law when it comes to violence

Being a rich, white, famous, NFL quarterback puts a person in the upper echelon of American privilege. Traditional rules need not apply to Johnny Football. With his privilege, drug possession morphs into drug addiction and jail time turns into rehab. When images circulated of Johnny Football tightly rolling a dollar bill in a bathroom, which is regularly done to snort cocaine, his privilege made it out to be a joke.

This very privilege appears to have now saved Johnny from an arrest for domestic violence and driving under the influence.

Multiple people called 911 to report the car that Manziel was driving was swerving erratically and that he appeared to be violent with a female passenger. When they were pulled over by police, Colleen Crowley, visibly shaken and crying, repeatedly told authorities that Manziel “hurt” and “hit” her multiple times. In spite of clear marks on her body, and Manziel admitting that he had been drinking earlier in the day, police opted not to arrest him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw

 

[cottonweaver]

@ Fossil & JJ

Colin De France will be happy that your first blog post is about these back striations as I know he brought these up a number of times.

I look forward to reading it myself.

Think it's a really good use of the the info you have accumulated and pored over all this time. So bravo guys.

 

[cottonweaver]

@JJ & Fossil It looks great guys.

two very quick questions after a read through

Did you discount the cricket bat - those skin marks look machine tooled to me ( in your fab photos, only ever seen J13's before) - I'm sure you have discounted it but apparently top grade English willow bats have a standard range of grain striations. ( As I don;t have a bat/play cricket I have no idea of dimensions or how smooth the surface is on the end of the bat)

Also , I am sure there is a tool mark analyst out there, UK or abroad that would be interested in seeing it, even if they might not give an opinion as only based on photos. ( Even if they just applaud you on the meticulous work you have done.)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...oUNa7M:;G-k6hTjWD30XxM:&imgrc=JZHhBj47oUNa7M:

 

[Mr Fossil]

@JJ & Fossil It looks great guys.

two very quick questions after a read through

Did you discount the cricket bat - those skin marks look machine tooled to me ( in your fab photos, only ever seen J13's before) - I'm sure you have discounted it but apparently top grade English willow bats have a standard range of grain striations. ( As I don;t have a bat/play cricket I have no idea of dimensions or how smooth the surface is on the end of the bat)

Also , I am sure there is a tool mark analyst out there, UK or abroad that would be interested in seeing it, even if they might not give an opinion as only based on photos. ( Even if they just applaud you on the meticulous work you have done.)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...oUNa7M:;G-k6hTjWD30XxM:&imgrc=JZHhBj47oUNa7M:

Thank you. Glad you like it.

Cricket bat - I agree that the cause of the striations would appear to be something machine tooled. Oscar's cricket bat does have some grain visible but nothing that we could see that would match the marks in the abrasion. We will be covering the cricket bat as a specific piece of evidence shortly.

Tool mark expert - I hope you're right. We have provided all our thoughts to the SAPS and NPA.

 

[cottonweaver]

Thank you. Glad you like it.

Cricket bat - I agree that the striations appear to be machine tooled. Oscar's cricket bat does have some grain visible but nothing that we could see that would match the marks in the abrasion. We will be covering the cricket bat as a specific piece of evidence shortly.

Tool mark expert - I hope you're right. We have provided all our thoughts to the SAPS and NPA.

Here's the extra link I couldn't add as WS was not allowing me to edit
I couldn't tell from J13 (Lazer brand) bat photos, neither the quality or the end details, but here's an example of a top quality bat which comes with a "patterned" end.

5th photo

http://www.eclipseallsports.co.uk/index.php/bdm-satchin-01.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm impressed by your blog!

One question: why are the abrasions oval?
Did I overlook your explanation?

I could imagine, OP had taken Reeva with both hands/arms amongst her waist , while he held the gun, and had moved Reeva into another position. Due to her weight (mostly lifeless) the pistol grip drilled in her back. Is that your thought also?
The end of the bat handle is somehow more explainable because of it's shape, BUT I think, the striations would be in a wrong direction then.
Are there fluffs of the vest on the gun?

 

[Mr Fossil]

I'm impressed by your blog!

One question: why are the abrasions oval?
Did I overlook your explanation?

I could imagine, OP had taken Reeva with both hands/arms amongst her waist , while he held the gun, and had moved Reeva into another position. Due to her weight (mostly lifeless) the pistol grip drilled in her back. Is that your thought also?
The end of the bat handle is somehow more explainable because of it's shape, BUT I think, the striations would be in a wrong direction then.
Are there fluffs of the vest on the gun?

The abrasions are on the spinal processes T11 and T12 (e.g. the bony bits that stick out of your spine if you feel your back at that location), hence their shape has a part to play in determining what actually got hit and the subsequent shape of the bruises. Gravity shifting could also have had a part to play. Blood from ruptured veins will flow into any empty spaces and downwards if you're standing. I'll add something to the post to cover this.

No, I think the gun would have been thrown - I can't see her allowing herself in the heat of an argument to be that close to him while he has his gun to hand, with her back turned. But I'll not rule out that he could have wielded it to hit her. We've tried to avoid speculation in the posts themselves but you'll start to get a picture of what might have happened after a couple more posts. If we're right you might be surprised by the timeline that will evolve.

I don't think the bat could have caused the striations. We'll cover the bat soon as it has a part to play.

Funnily enough I did think I could see something dark like a speck of fluff on the edge of the gun handle but it really wasn't tangible and it would have undermined the credibility of the post IMO. That's something the police could have looked at but probably didn't and it's too late now.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thank you, Mr Fossil!

Okay, I'll slow me down.

We have provided all our thoughts to the SAPS and NPA.

Reassuring to hear/read! Great!

 

[geevee]

Terrific work Mr. Fossil (and JudgeJudi), very much looking forward to future posts and seeing the unfolding of your timeline.

 

[Trotterly]

The abrasions are on the spinal processes T11 and T12 (e.g. the bony bits that stick out of your spine if you feel your back at that location), hence their shape has a part to play in determining what actually got hit and the subsequent shape of the bruises. Gravity shifting could also have had a part to play. Blood from ruptured veins will flow into any empty spaces and downwards if you're standing. I'll add something to the post to cover this.

No, I think the gun would have been thrown - I can't see her allowing herself in the heat of an argument to be that close to him while he has his gun to hand, with her back turned. But I'll not rule out that he could have wielded it to hit her. We've tried to avoid speculation in the posts themselves but you'll start to get a picture of what might have happened after a couple more posts. If we're right you might be surprised by the timeline that will evolve.

I don't think the bat could have caused the striations. We'll cover the bat soon as it has a part to play.

Funnily enough I did think I could see something dark like a speck of fluff on the edge of the gun handle but it really wasn't tangible and it would have undermined the credibility of the post IMO. That's something the police could have looked at but probably didn't and it's too late now.

The gun had already been casually handled by the police who unfortunately seemed oblivious to the possibility that trace evidence might be enlightening.

The area of the bruise could have been chemically analysed for traces of metallic elements from the metal grip or gun oil not present on the surrounding skin.

Seeing the grip next to the striations in the bruise is striking and fits much better than a fabric impression.

If OP was gripping the gun normally it is difficult to see how it would have been that part of the gun that would have caused the bruise in the middle of her back if they were in close contact.

It is possible that the gun was thrown but with OP arguing on his stumps I am wondering why he would risk that. Looking forward to hearing more.

I was never convinced by the bullet or rack theories for the striations and at one time thought it may have been a watch bezel (the missing watch?). Never thought of the gun handle - nice detective work!

 

[Colin de France]

@ Fossil & JJ

Colin De France will be happy that your first blog post is about these back striations as I know he brought these up a number of times.

I look forward to reading it myself.

Think it's a really good use of the the info you have accumulated and pored over all this time. So bravo guys.

...thanks, i know it goes against the general opinion on here, but if there was a fight beforehand i find it difficult to imagine him shooting to kill once she got in the WC, the move from a fight to murder seems too much in that he was under no threat from her, it just doesn't feel right........but i can see him blasting at the door to try to get in, that does make sense......

 

[Trotterly]

...thanks, i know it goes against the general opinion on here, but if there was a fight beforehand i find it difficult to imagine him shooting to kill once she got in the WC, the move from a fight to murder seems too much in that he was under no threat from her, it just doesn't feel right........but i can see him blasting at the door to try to get in, that does make sense......

Surely as an experienced gun user who has said that he shot at pieces of wood, OP would be aware that shooting a door is only going to make small holes in it. Even if he wasn't thinking straight I can't see him ever doing something like that.

 

[Colin de France]

Surely as an experienced gun user who has said that he shot at pieces of wood, OP would be aware that shooting a door is only going to make small holes in it. Even if he wasn't thinking straight I can't see him ever doing something like that.

....they call that a difference of opinion....i can see him doing it quite easily if he was in a rage add to that the possibility that she had a mobile phone with her......he may well of fired on the door not to get in and not to kill but a reaction simply out of anger, that is also a possibility...

 

[Colin de France]

Monty Fossil and Judge Judi take another look at the evidence

Over the course of the last year I have been collaborating with Judge Judi to take a closer look at the available evidence from the trial. Whether the appeal is successful or not, we're still keen to get to the bottom of what really happened on 13/14 February 2013 and, like many here, we don't think that came out in court.

We'd like to start sharing what we've found so far and we're going to do this via a series of posts, each of which will concentrate on a different aspect of the evidence. For presentation purposes we've set up a new blog at https://cc11313.wordpress.com/.

Our first post takes a fresh look at the abrasions on Reeva's back and explores a possible alternative cause not considered by the court: the handle of Oscar's gun.

Further posts will follow over the next few days and weeks. Individually and collectively they paint a very different picture of what might really have happened that night.

As ever, we welcome comment and discussion.

....excellent work about the striations......one can safely rule out the magazine rack.....could it of been possible that he hit her on the back with the gun whilst she was in the horizontal position similar to as if she had fallen over whilst trying to get away from him ?

 

[WilliamMunter]

Oscar Pistorius: Amateur sleuths comb through evidence, find 'serious oversights'

At first I thought this was a reference to Mr Fossil's and JJ's work but appears two brothers are also re-examining the evidence with view to publishing a book.

"Thomas recreated in his Piketberg flat an exact replica of the bathroom of Oscar's home, determining the trajectories of the four bullets by using the known heights of the bullet holes but also “accounted for some other ignored factors”. He also lugged jars of sheep's blood up from the nearby abattoir to, among other, investigate the “flush patterns” in the toilet in Oscar's bathroom."

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...vidence-find-serious-oversights/#.ViiyyLyDBFK

 

[cottonweaver]

I think we can mostly agree , maybe, that OP has not had preferential treatment in terms of his actual release date. In the broader picture of the whole case though, here's another grieving mum who feels she never got justice though, because of the killer hailing from an influential family.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/british-mum-claims-daughters-killing-4551160

Like us, Reeva’s family haven’t had real justice.
“The similarities in our daughters’ deaths are startling and highlight a disturbing acceptance of violence against women in South Africa.
“Our judicial system is morally *bankrupt and needs to be changed.
“Pistorius received a slap on the wrist and I believe Khan’s status and family prevented his arrest. In a number of high-profile killings, the ineptness of the police has been challenged through expensive defence strategies.”