Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #64 ~ the appeal~

[Interested Bystander]

In England and Wales, the murder rate has dropped by eight per cent to 1.04 per 100,000 population since 1995. In Scotland, the rate has dropped by 19 per cent to 1.8 per 100,000 population and in Northern Ireland it has fallen by 61 per cent to 1.4, according to the data.18 Sep 2014.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ts-plunges-40-15-years-policing-improves.html

 

[Viper]

I made the mistake of seeing this story in the news a little while ago:

"The victim had been watching the hip-hop biopic at Cineworld in Crawley, West Sussex. When he left the cinema, he was approached in the car park and had acid thrown over him."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-horrifically-wounded-acid-attack-6366524


So now, thanks to the Mirror, I know all about homicides in the UK. Murder rates are now the lowest that they have been since 1989; that was 8 years before they took away everybody's guns IIRC. Seems that murder has been unpopular in the UK for a long time.

Most homicides are domestic, the husband kills his wife or vice versa, and for men the man's friend usually kills him. The preferred means is a knife, the second most popular is kicking and beating the victim to death. Strangulation is also high on the list.

It's a crazy world we share!


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/bedfordshire-murder-capital-britain-see-5190085

 

[cottonweaver]

Dunno if this has already been linked - I haven't been opening links recently- in case it hasn't:
25.8.2015

"Reeva Steenkamp’s devastated parents remain adamant Oscar Pistorius deliberately killed their daughter, telling Australian television their life has been ruined and they are not ready to talk to him.

How can 10 months be enough? He killed her. He admits he killed her. She’s dead. Why didn’t he just let her walk away? Why?” said her mother, June Steenkamp, in an interview with Australia’s Channel Seven, broadcast on Sunday evening.
“Only Oscar will know for the rest of his life what really happened and would you like to live with it? Would I? Never, ever.”
We will leave it to the justice system,” Reeva’s father, Barry Steenkamp, told the broadcaster. “It’s not finished, not finished by a long way.
“If the outcome is there’s going to be a longer sentence, are we going to feel better? I don’t know.”
Her father is convinced they had a fight and Pistorius killed her in a fit of rage.
“He got angry, she went off to the toilet, locked herself inside and then … him pulling out the gun and shooting,” he said.
“When he realised that had happened, then he couldn’t stop and he had to carry on until it was finished.”






http://citizen.co.za/652297/oscar-killed-wilfully/

 

[lisasalinger]

I don't think Frank's conscience will ever get the better of him, as to grass on OP now would probably be more than his life was worth. Did he ever even tell the police how he ended up dressed and outside so soon after the killing if he hadn't heard anything? Another of those little mysteries, like CP deleting the contents of his brother's phone, and Aimee taking it upon herself to remove evidence from a crime scene.

I'm sure OP will get some hangers on to be his 'friends'. Beyond that, unless he's lucky enough to meet people with no conscience, no compassion, and a blatant disregard for life - I can't see him having much in common with anyone.

Hey Soozieqtips...

Just getting caught up on the thread (have a few more pages to go, so hopefully I'm not being redundant)...

Carice testified that when she pulled up at OP's house that night there were some people in the road - one a security guard (not Baba) and the other Frank. I wonder what Frank and the security guard discussed, or what the security guard observed in terms of Frank. You know who I'd love to track down and talk to.... is Baba. He seemed very sincere (to me) at trial. Would love to have a heart to heart with that guy.

 

[lisasalinger]

RSBM I'm still surprised that an enterprising member of the press have not found him.That's a scoop worth a lot of money to say SKY news etc. and equally to Frank.
So Bystander, Frank is effectively under lock and key somewhere ? The pay-off for Frank would have to be big, even though Frank would be used to a paltry income.
I also agree with Soozie below. ie If Frank has no conscience as £ could silence him in 2013, have they got come other hold on him? Because the media could make a more tempting offer even than Arnold.
I know I am drivelling on a bit here but you get my drift- wonder if he's out there working on one of the family properties, not necessarily back in Malawi.

Juror 13, if you're out there - don't you fancy a special assignment when you head to SA in November to cover the Appeal ?!!

Oh heck yea... I'm prepared to put on my Mission Impossible gear and go dig around If I find anything... you guys are the first peeps to know!

 

[lisasalinger]

Well I remember what happened the last time he went out in public and tried to hang out with the elites, the hot girls shunned him and an incrowd dude punched him. OP is a pariah amoung those that he longs to associate with.

But if he ever makes it to house arrest, and I doubt that he ever will, he won't be allowed to leave to go out partying (GPS monitor on his wrist) and he will be drug and alcohol tested. Just contact with immediate family and the minions that follow him and CP, eew!

But that should be fine for him, considering he's such a loyal christian. He and the Hulk can spend their time at church

 

[lisasalinger]

Even your response is rude.


Here is a link but it goes nowhere. Much as I thought would be the case. I haven't been back to trace the link in WS. I have spent enough time on this. If you are really keen to find a link that is still available, go ahead.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/...0-metres-away/

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports...hooting-which-woke-neighbours-170-metres-away

Frank couldn't speak for two reasons - because of what he heard and because of what he didn't hear. Oscar never yelled for Reeva to call the police. He didn't even call them himself.

 

[lisasalinger]

Yes, that's a really good article.
hence, she's in the passenger seat "Night Flight to Mozambique" .

Having just purchased Lisa's latest, this appalling Satellite service is now telling me it's going to take 5 hours to download 50MB:banghead:

Hey Cotton... Thank you!

What do you think about Fugitive? I think most people will be very interested in the Intentionality chapter... Nick & I really enjoyed working on this one and digging at Oscar's psyche from a different angle.

 

[lisasalinger]

Here's something some of you may be interested in checking out... Nick and I have been making videos about our journey in writing about Oscar, collaborating with each other, adventures from the road, etc, etc. These are raw videos... certainly not high-end productions... but just like our writing, they're videos made by us simple folk sharing our experiences and insights. Hopefully they're interesting & entertaining. We plan to do more, but on a more polished scale as time goes on. We're just getting our feet wet. I think it's kinda cool to do videos to complement our writing... gives a visual & personal perspective to the material. Feel free to share your thoughts... or laugh at us

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2015/08/04/interrogating-oscar/

 

[lisasalinger]

Miss Tricia said it was cool with her if I wanted to post a link to Fugitive here on this thread... so here it is for those who may be interested. In case you're wondering, the primary theme of this particular narrative is Oscar's psychology & intentionality. It's a timely discussion as the appeal is really centered on "intentionality" and subsequent consequences. If you do end up reading it, please let us know what you think. Thanks!

http://www.amazon.com/FUGITIVE-Oscar-Pistorius-SHAKEDOWN-Title-ebook/dp/B0149YRKW8/

 

[Interested Bystander]

Here's something some of you may be interested in checking out... Nick and I have been making videos about our journey in writing about Oscar, collaborating with each other, adventures from the road, etc, etc. These are raw videos... certainly not high-end productions... but just like our writing, they're videos made by us simple folk sharing our experiences and insights. Hopefully they're interesting & entertaining. We plan to do more, but on a more polished scale as time goes on. We're just getting our feet wet. I think it's kinda cool to do videos to complement our writing... gives a visual & personal perspective to the material. Feel free to share your thoughts... or laugh at us

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2015/08/04/interrogating-oscar/

Lisa, these Episodes are excellent. They have kept me up until way past 2am and I have only reached Episode 3.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I found this. Remand of OP before release?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, sadly, we like "us knives" here in the UK. Seriously, I have no answers. A friend of mine, tho don't see him these days, was last advising the UK Govt on gun and gang crime. It wasn't working but he made a great income out of it!

Anyway here's the light entertainment option. Feel free, or not, to paste, add your "vote" etc.

1. No release to house arrest until Appeal -
2. Release re-affirmed by Review Board on 18th Sept -

some won't want to do No.3 until Defence's Heads are in and legal appraisals read but for the risk-takers...

3a) SCA verdict : Dolus Eventualis with substantial sentence
or 3b) SCA verdict : CH Upheld with substantially increased sentence -
or 3c) SCA verdict : CH ( Masipa verdict & sentence ) Upheld, OP released to house arrest. -


Anyone going for 3c) ....drinks are on Arnold, party at Waterkloof,....
There you go, straw poll instead as some may be sniffy about wagers on this matter.

or 3b) SCA verdict : CH Upheld with substantially increased sentence -

 

[Interested Bystander]

Miss Tricia said it was cool with her if I wanted to post a link to Fugitive here on this thread... so here it is for those who may be interested. In case you're wondering, the primary theme of this particular narrative is Oscar's psychology & intentionality. It's a timely discussion as the appeal is really centered on "intentionality" and subsequent consequences. If you do end up reading it, please let us know what you think. Thanks!

http://www.amazon.com/FUGITIVE-Oscar-Pistorius-SHAKEDOWN-Title-ebook/dp/B0149YRKW8/

I am reading this as my bedtime book and am really enjoying it.

 

[Trotterly]

Yes, sadly, we like "us knives" here in the UK. Seriously, I have no answers. A friend of mine, tho don't see him these days, was last advising the UK Govt on gun and gang crime. It wasn't working but he made a great income out of it!

Anyway here's the light entertainment option. Feel free, or not, to paste, add your "vote" etc.

1. No release to house arrest until Appeal -
2. Release re-affirmed by Review Board on 18th Sept -

some won't want to do No.3 until Defence's Heads are in and legal appraisals read but for the risk-takers...

3a) SCA verdict : Dolus Eventualis with substantial sentence
or 3b) SCA verdict : CH Upheld with substantially increased sentence -
or 3c) SCA verdict : CH ( Masipa verdict & sentence ) Upheld, OP released to house arrest. -


Anyone going for 3c) ....drinks are on Arnold, party at Waterkloof,....
There you go, straw poll instead as some may be sniffy about wagers on this matter.

BIB Because of the finding of facts.

 

[lisasalinger]

I am reading this as my bedtime book and am really enjoying it.

Thanks friend Glad you're enjoying it, and the videos too! More to come...

 

[mrjitty]

Miss Tricia said it was cool with her if I wanted to post a link to Fugitive here on this thread... so here it is for those who may be interested. In case you're wondering, the primary theme of this particular narrative is Oscar's psychology & intentionality. It's a timely discussion as the appeal is really centered on "intentionality" and subsequent consequences. If you do end up reading it, please let us know what you think. Thanks!

http://www.amazon.com/FUGITIVE-Oscar-Pistorius-SHAKEDOWN-Title-ebook/dp/B0149YRKW8/

Hi Lisa

I used to post a bit at your J13 site back in the pre-verdict days

Also read your at least 2 of yr books

Are you considering to do more writing in your J13 register?

I thought your tight analysis of the case was awesome - the best on the net.

I'd really urge you to focus on that - its a highly valuable and rare skill!

 

[mrjitty]

And I have learned from law enforcement professionals that it is best to store the gun in an easily accessible place, loaded, with the safety off. The point is reaction time, it takes time to get it ready and if its needed there may not be that much time.

I agree it's too big an issue to get into - so I will just reply to this on the OP angle.

BIB is why us peeps in Germany (where I live) or NZ (where I am from) think you are all a bit crazy

OP revealed an attitude that people feel the need to do this, but do they actually need to?

And more importantly the law in RSA does not really allow it.

Lets not forget amongst all the noise around the appeal, that the Court found OP's behaviour warranted 5 years prison sentence.

So that should surely have already sent a message to SA gun owners that they need to be extremely careful

But of course that message hasn't really come thru at all.

But in simple terms if this was a tragic mistake - then the lesson is that gun safety is paramount - because this was not an accident

This is what happens when you take up a loaded weapon in your home at 3am

People get shot

 

[Interested Bystander]

This is the first time I have read about any of the witnesses commenting on their experience in court.

Witness tells of Oscar trial hell
"You feel you are being attacked personally. Your integrity is questioned. We felt that [we] were being attacked as [liars]," Stipp told Tewson.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/08/25/witness-tells-of-oscar-trial-hell

Apologies if this has been posted before.

 

[Viper]

I agree it's too big an issue to get into - so I will just reply to this on the OP angle.

BIB is why us peeps in Germany (where I live) or NZ (where I am from) think you are all a bit crazy

OP revealed an attitude that people feel the need to do this, but do they actually need to?

And more importantly the law in RSA does not really allow it.

Lets not forget amongst all the noise around the appeal, that the Court found OP's behaviour warranted 5 years prison sentence.

So that should surely have already sent a message to SA gun owners that they need to be extremely careful

But of course that message hasn't really come thru at all.

But in simple terms if this was a tragic mistake - then the lesson is that gun safety is paramount - because this was not an accident

This is what happens when you take up a loaded weapon in your home at 3am

People get shot

Honestly, may I ask what is the difference if a person's private handgun, or long gun, is stored loaded and unlocked as opposed to unloaded and locked? You seem to see some great distinction between the two, please explain. Labeling all responsible gun owners as "Crazies" is over the top. OP is a criminal and a murderer, he is not one of the 100+ million American gun owners that would never harm anyone. This seems to be an ideological targeting of the gun as some animated thing that has stages of life on its own and if it did not exist murder would not exist. But from what the data shows that is a falsehood and you should really be focused on getting people to lock up their knives and enroll in driver education classes.

I read the following "Grim" South African article today. If I were a journalist writing for the Daily Mail I would sum it up like this:

"Violent deaths by guns are increasing slightly, with violent deaths by knives increasing as well. But the good news is that you are actually more likely to die a violent death if you use a motor vehicle for transportation, so try to avoid doing that."

It is a grim article, but at the same time it is interesting and insightful.

"Shootings by themselves were the second biggest contributor among all causes of death, resulting in 1413, 1552 and 1608 bodies arriving in mortuaries over the period 2012/13 to 2014/15.

Stabbings (1097, 1 164, and 1257) alone ranked in the top four causes of death for the same periods. Assault (814, 902 and 981) and rape (46, 36, and 29) rounded out the figure for violent deaths.

If violent crime was not enough, Gauteng's reputation for being home to the country's wildest drivers was only strengthened by the mortuary numbers.

Motor vehicle accidents were the number one cause of death across the province's 10 mortuaries, with 1881 people entering Gauteng's mortuaries in 2012/13 as a result. This number increased to 1927 in 2013/14, and dropped somewhat to 1 707 in 2014/15."


http://m.news24.com/news24/SouthAfrica/News/Grim-ways-to-die-in-Gauteng-20150903