P.I. Says He Videotaped Area Where Caylee Was Later Found

[reeseeva]

The location and placement (on top of the ground) of Caylee's body does not support premeditation. Moreover, the defense is likely to argue that the placement and location invited LE to find her body.

The location & placement?.....& you are not taking into account the water tables prior to this find? Now you are really getting under my skin! Just because you give short statements, doesn't mean they are "gospel" I'm not going to get heated up over your statements, as I think the forensic entymology will dispel your sway on words.

One last question: Is it true that Criminal Defense Attorneys stem from sociopathic beginnings? Water seeks it's own level?? Sorry! No.....

" Here Come The Wudge? ( Couldn't Resist)

 

[norr]

This is beginning to look like a Keystone Cops presentation = the investigation. As far as that goes their investigation should have been over along time ago -- they charged Casey Anthony way too soon because they were angry. Now they are stuck with it and have to build the case around it whether or not. As the ME HAD to say homicide because the police already had!!! Maybe some real proof connecting Casey Anthony is yet to come. Never know it seems.

What a mess.

 

[Wudge]

I'm wondering if premeditation of murder requires premeditation of disposal?


SNIP

No. It does not require it.

However, the lack of such a plan in a killing that allegedly started with preceding computer searches from long ago would work strongly against premeditation.

 

[TxRose]

The key focus of the defense will be on the lack of clear and unyielding evidence to support the State's charges. The mere fact that prosecutors charged Casey with murder one but not murder two and then charged her with manslaughter as well tells me that the circumstances of Caylee's death are not at all clear to them either. For murder one is far apart from aggravated manslaughter.

I think you are right here Wudge. They really don't have a theory themselves that makes sense. Insanity is out. So the only thing they can do is go on the attack. Attack the integrity of the state's work. Create reasonable doubt. Poke holes in the forensics.

I think the charges are as they are only because we don't known the means of her death. The ME ruled homicide by unknown means. She clearly didn't just drop dead....or dump herself out in those woods. She is too young for suicide. So clearly it was either a horrible accident gone wrong (hence the manslaughter charge) or cold pre-meditated murder (murder one). If it was an accident, I think they feel it was likely it happened in the commission of another felony - like child abuse...which is why they are listing manslaughter. JMO

Edit> "Accident" meaning that her death was not intended, but likely based on the actions of the person that killed her.

 

[doogiesgirl]

I'm wondering if premeditation of murder requires premeditation of disposal?

I vote no.

 

[LancelotLink]

I am so confused by what LP disclosed on NG. The most stunning part for me was when he stated that PI told him they had found Caylee back in November and that she was dead. I almost fell off the couch!!

 

[magic-cat]

I do not believe for one moment that Dr. G would have stated the cause of death as homicide unless she felt that was accurate according to the exam, the evidence at the scene and other circumstancial evidence. I believe she would have ruled it accidental if she had seen somthing that made her believe it was accidental. BUT here is the thing. There was NO sign of trauma. This means she did not accidentally fall and bust her head or something similar. This means there was an invisible cause of death, which could either have been drowning or poison or suffocation which in my opinion would have made it that much easier to rule a homicide, especially if any of the circumstancial evidence was duct tape around the baby's head! Dr. G. would not risk her career to reinforce the states case-I don't believe it for one second.

 

[Crafti]

This is beginning to look like a Keystone Cops presentation = the investigation. As far as that goes their investigation should have been over along time ago -- they charged Casey Anthony was too soon because they were angry. Now they are stuck with it and have to build the case around it whether or not. As the ME HAD to say homicide because the police already had!!! Maybe some real proof connecting Casey Anthony is yet to come. Never know it seems.

What a mess.

WHAT? "the ME HAD to say homicide because the police already had"? Are you serious? You can't be serious! Do you think Caylee put duct tape around her own head and taped herself up in a garbage bag in a swampy area to commit suicide? Or maybe you're thinking it was natural causes? A ME isn't going to say homicide if there isn't clear evidence that it is homicide - especially not one this well known with a good reputation.

 

[doogiesgirl]

This is beginning to look like a Keystone Cops presentation = the investigation. As far as that goes their investigation should have been over along time ago -- they charged Casey Anthony way too soon because they were angry. Now they are stuck with it and have to build the case around it whether or not. As the ME HAD to say homicide because the police already had!!! Maybe some real proof connecting Casey Anthony is yet to come. Never know it seems.

What a mess.

Surely you jest????

 

[Wudge]

OK, like many people here, maybe my brain is overloaded. . . . "the placement and location invited LE to find her body". What does that mean? How does that help the defense?

The body was not buried. The body was not far from the road. The body was close to the Anthony's home.

Compare that to a situation where you dig a hole ahead of time deep into woods 30 miles from your home and then execute a planned murder. Afterwards you drive back out, put the body in the hole, cover it up and drive home.

 

[norr]

quote:
Originally Posted by Wudge
The key focus of the defense will be on the lack of clear and unyielding evidence to support the State's charges. The mere fact that prosecutors charged Casey with murder one but not murder two and then charged her with manslaughter as well tells me that the circumstances of Caylee's death are not at all clear to them either. For murder one is far apart from aggravated manslaughter.

YES YES YES YES YES
:applause: :applause:

 

[TxRose]

No. It does not require it.

However, the lack of such a plan in a killing that allegedly started with preceding computer searches from long ago would work strongly against premeditation.

I think they could get around that though. As long as you can show she was thinking about killing her daughter, I think that is enough. I would argue she accelerated her plans after a fight or something, and hadn't yet fully set out her plans for disposal. It doesn't mean she hadn't been thinking and premeditating killing her. It just means she didn't come up with a very good plan ahead of time.

 

[amysmom]

I don't think so because then JB would have no standing to request that a "special master" be present when he was interviewed by LE. He obviously worked for the defense at some point. But apparently he left there and went to work for the A's as a body guard or something. The question is when he made the switch.

It's also important to know when the A's hired their PI..I clearly recall it was early on, well before their atty, but the name was kept on the QT for some time..I believe when it was finally put out there it was DC if not someone else from his firm..Hoover, who is connected to DC, was a bodyguard for the defense when KC was first released on bond..We know that from film footage shown just tonight on NG..What date was that?

 

[norr]

Surely you jest????

No not at all.

 

[Crafti]

The body was not buried. The body was not far from the road. The body was close to the Anthony's home.

Compare that to a situation where you dig a hole ahead of time deep into woods 30 miles from your home and then execute a planned murder. Afterwards you drive back out, put the body in the hole, cover it up and drive home.

So you're saying that just dumping her around the corner on the side of the road shows less guilt/premeditation than trying harder to hide the body?

 

[Wudge]

I think you are right here Wudge. They really don't have a theory themselves that makes sense. Insanity is out. So the only thing they can do is go on the attack. Attack the integrity of the state's work. Create reasonable doubt. Poke holes in the forensics.

I think the charges are as they are only because we don't known the means of her death. The ME ruled homicide by unknown means. She clearly didn't just drop dead....or dump herself out in those woods. She is too young for suicide. So clearly it was either a horrible accident gone wrong (hence the manslaughter charge) or cold pre-meditated murder (murder one). If it was an accident, I think they feel it was likely it happened in the commission of another felony - like child abuse...which is why they are listing manslaughter. JMO

Edit> "Accident" meaning that her death was not intended, but likely based on the actions of the person that killed her.

Good post.

People need to appreciate that prosecutors cannot layout a storyline to the jury that supports both murder one and aggravated manslaughter. Moreover, if they do not lay out a storyline in their opening statement, that will tell me that they are almost certainly but whistling into the wind.

 

[MissJames]

snipped

I'm wondering if premeditation of murder requires premeditation of disposal?

One could have a premeditated plan that goes awry .If KC had a plan for disposal and was interrupted,or came close to being caught she may have dumped her quickly.Perhaps she planned to dump the body out by the airport,but people were closeby and she was afraid of being seen.Maybe she didn't realise how quickly the body would decompose and had to come up with another plan,All complete supposition.We just don't know,but the way the body was dumped does not rule out premeditation Imo.

Also,I would not be surprised if the PI always worked for the A's,but because he was present during conversations with JB he's claiming privilage.Again jmo

 

[Wudge]

So you're saying that just dumping her around the corner on the side of the road shows less guilt/premeditation than trying harder to hide the body?

It absolutely works against the charge of murder one (planned and deliberated murder), not for it.

 

[JBean]

Looks like we may have some good debate in this thread.
Just a friendly reminder that personal attacks against another poster are a violation and will earn you a vacation for New Years.
If you disagree with a post, challenge the post, but do not attack the poster.

 

[magic-cat]

I'm wondering if premeditation of murder requires premeditation of disposal?

I've never believed and still don't believe that there is a video of the same exact spot. Although they may have video taped in the area (which is suspicious) I guess you could argue that a lot of people were in that area looking around prior to discovery. But why is Baez so seemingly worried about what they have to say? ? ? ? He's practically admitted that he's had discussions about where the body was. . . doesn't it seem this way to anyone else?

Yes, it seems exactly that way to me as well...

No. It does not require it.

However, the lack of such a plan in a killing that allegedly started with preceding computer searches from long ago would work strongly against premeditation.

Obviously Casey's plans were put into action ahead of the scheduled time-frame that she originally had intended, however, I do believe that where she put her is exactly where she always intended to put her.

The body was not buried. The body was not far from the road. The body was close to the Anthony's home.

Compare that to a situation where you dig a hole ahead of time deep into woods 30 miles from your home and then execute a planned murder. Afterwards you drive back out, put the body in the hole, cover it up and drive home.

Historically, women who kill their children do not bury them 30 miles away. In the majority of cases they are disposed of in a womb-like fashion, and many times in or near water. Once COULD argue that Casey even returned Caylee to that womblike state by wrapping her mouth and maybe even her nose in duct tape, this replicating the "plug" that nature placed in us all while we were inside our mother's womb.

Also just because the body was not buried does not mean it was not originally buried and rose from gasses and water. The body could have been further from the road before floating to the location where it was discovered and I think the scattering of bones and the flooding that were present, which would seem to indicate the water was the means of dispersement rather than small animal activity do indicate that this body moved from its original "placement".