P.I. Says He Videotaped Area Where Caylee Was Later Found

[Crafti]

Good post.

People need to appreciate that prosecutors cannot layout a storyline to the jury that supports both murder one and aggravated manslaughter. Moreover, if they do not lay out a storyline in their opening statement, that will tell me that they are almost certainly but whistling into the wind.

I am NOT a lawyer. Do you have to have a specific storyline to bring someone up on charges or just enough evidence to support your charges?

 

[Wudge]

I think they could get around that though. As long as you can show she was thinking about killing her daughter, I think that is enough. I would argue she accelerated her plans after a fight or something, and hadn't yet fully set out her plans for disposal. It doesn't mean she hadn't been thinking and premeditating killing her. It just means she didn't come up with a very good plan ahead of time.

It's one thing not to have a very good plan. It is entirely another thing to have no plan at all, which is what driving around with a body in your car for up to 11 days would certainly be persuasive of.

 

[MissJames]

The body was not buried. The body was not far from the road. The body was close to the Anthony's home.

Compare that to a situation where you dig a hole ahead of time deep into woods 30 miles from your home and then execute a planned murder. Afterwards you drive back out, put the body in the hole, cover it up and drive home.

Respectfully asking, what are you basing your statement on? That the body was not buried?
My understanding is that the amount of water in the area and/or animals could have moved the bag from a shallow grave. LE has not stated one way or another.So where is the info that the body was not buried?

 

[magic-cat]

It absolutely works against the charge of murder one (planned and deliberated murder), not for it.

No it doesn't. This is in fact what the majority of mother's who kill their young do. They wrap them just as Casey seems to have done. They dispose of them close to home. They dispose of them in or close to home. Casey is textbook here with her means of disposal and her methods. The duct tape is enough to prove premeditation-nobody puts duct tape around a child's head just for kicks, and depending on what other wonderful and incriminating morsels were discovered at the scene, murder one is exactly the correct charge and they should throw the death penalty back in the mix.

 

[Wudge]

I am NOT a lawyer. Do you have to have a specific storyline to bring someone up on charges or just enough evidence to support your charges?

No.

But juries absolutely want to hear a storyline that makes sense -- it goes to the cohesion of the People's case or lack thereof.

 

[Wudge]

Respectfully asking, what are you basing your statement on? That the body was not buried?
My understanding is that the amount of water in the area and/or animals could have moved the bag from a shallow grave. LE has not stated one way or another.So where is the info that the body was not buried?

How could the meter man have seen a bag that was buried?

 

[magic-cat]

It's one thing not to have a very good plan. It is entirely another thing to have no plan at all, which is what driving around with a body in your car for up to 11 days would certainly be persuasive of.

There is NO evidence that she was driving around with the body in her car for 11 days. There IS evidence that there was decomposition in the trunk of Casey's car consistent with 2.6 days of time elapsed in an oxygen deprived environment. Casey could have placed Caylee there 3 days later and as she was removing her from the car the bag leaked and she could not or did not take the time (being as she was so lazy) to clean it up properly. Or perhaps she did clean it up on the surface, but it had leaked into the wheel well, and she missed the source of the odor and then she ran out of gas and we know the rest of THAT story. There are no indications that she was in the trunk for 11 days. From where do you garner this information?

 

[doogiesgirl]

No not at all

I feel like you and I must be discussing two separate cases.

You do realize that KC lied to investigators from the start right? About everything. And that her mother has told others she was a sociopath, as well as a bad mother. KC also stole from her parents and grandparents, brother before ripping off her best friend for $700(probably more). That there were searches on her computer for chloroform, neck breaking, household items to use as weapons. That she didn't call police EVER when her daughter went missing. That she partied after said daughter went missing. That countless others smelled the smell of death in her car/trunk and that a lab proved that along with chloroform. And that her daughter's body turned up one third of a mile from her home. I could go on and on but if you don't get the picture from this then I don't think you are ever going to get the picture.

I realize if you haven't followed this case from day one you may not be aware of how damning the evidence is against KC. If you have the time and are interested go back to the July threads. It's quite an education on KC. JMO

 

[magic-cat]

How could the meter man have seen a bag that was buried?

There is no indication that the bag that was discovered on December 11th was the SAME bag that was seen by the meter man in August. Remember this is a KNOWN dumping site, for garbage that is...

 

[TxRose]

Good post.

People need to appreciate that prosecutors cannot layout a storyline to the jury that supports both murder one and aggravated manslaughter. Moreover, if they do not lay out a storyline in their opening statement, that will tell me that they are almost certainly but whistling into the wind.

I understand that and I don't think they will present two storylines. They will go with the murder one storyline in my opinion. Perhaps they left the lesser charge in case they had doubters on the jury? Perhaps they might even drop that lesser charge later...I don't know. But you can bet unless something else drastic happens...they will go for the big one with her. Do they know know right now the exact means of her death? No. But that could change. But frankly...they don't have to know to get a convinction.

It sure will be interesting to watch what happens and what info they haven't released yet!

 

[Crafti]

No.

But juries absolutely want to hear a storyline that makes sense -- it goes to the cohesion of the People's case or lack thereof.

That makes sense, luckily I think there will be plenty of time before trial before a jury occurs to put together that storyline presentation.

Back to the PI & the video. Again, I am NOT a lawyer. Aren't people advised to tell their lawyer the truth so they can defend them to the best of their abilities? Even if they are guilty? Would they also be advised to disclose the location of the body?

 

[TxRose]

It's one thing not to have a very good plan. It is entirely another thing to have no plan at all, which is what driving around with a body in your car for up to 11 days would certainly be persuasive of.

She clearly did not have a plan for disposing of the body...at least not one that worked for the way and time in which she finally chose to kill her. Perhaps she originally planned to do it another way....and had a plan for disposal under that scenario. Who knows....we won't ever know that. But I still think they can show premeditation because it doesn't require a fully executable plan drawn out over a long period of time.

 

[reeseeva]

It absolutely works against the charge of murder one (planned and deliberated murder), not for it.

The body was not buried. The body was not far from the road. The body was close to the Anthony's home.

Compare that to a situation where you dig a hole ahead of time deep into woods 30 miles from your home and then execute a planned murder. Afterwards you drive back out, put the body in the hole, cover it up and drive home.

You do NOT know that the body was not buried, based on the flood plains outlined..What difference is there being close to home vs. 30 miles away? or in the backyard? There is a baby in a garbage bag, with duct tape Buried in a swamp, that has risen, to place itself in a different place than originally "buried", an ill-planned, scatterbrained burial, but nonetheless a premeditated in a ditch burial.

 

[Wudge]

I understand that and I don't think they will present two storylines. They will go with the murder one storyline in my opinion. Perhaps they left the lesser charge in case they had doubters on the jury? Perhaps they might even drop that lesser charge later...I don't know. But you can bet unless something else drastic happens...they will go for the big one with her. Do they know know right now the exact means of her death? No. But that could change. But frankly...they don't have to know to get a convinction.

It sure will be interesting to watch what happens and what info they haven't released yet!

If prosecutors were to present two storylines, that would say to the jury that we really don't know what happened beyond a reasonable doubt.

In their closing argument, any halfway competent defense attorney would have a field day with a two storyline (we're not sure what transpired) approach. They would be doing figurative handstands. Moreover, it would be the talk of the crimetainment media, and the D.A. would have their phone ringing off the hook with demands to remove the prosecutors.

 

[MissJames]

How could the meter man have seen a bag that was buried?

The mr made his first calls mid August.That's 2 months after Caylee was last seen.Animals could most definitely taken the bag from a shallow grave and dragged the bag .That could account for the bones being strewn around also.
IIRC the MR said he saw something white.That could have been bones or clothing.We just don't know enough yet .

 

[TxRose]

Here is a definition of premeditated murder:

"Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.[1] State laws in the United States vary as to definitions of "premeditation." In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder."

I don't know the definition under Florida law...but it is my belief that it requires only forethought on killing someone...not on how you will cover up the crime. So if you get mad at someone, grab your gun and drive over to their house and shoot them...is that not premeditated? Just because you left them there on the floor and the body was easily discovered (i.e. you had not planed for disposal of the body) - does not mean it wasn't premeditated.

I will agree with Wudge that I think the defense will argue the premeditation aspect.

 

[Wudge]

That makes sense, luckily I think there will be plenty of time before trial before a jury occurs to put together that storyline presentation.

Back to the PI & the video. Again, I am NOT a lawyer. Aren't people advised to tell their lawyer the truth so they can defend them to the best of their abilities? Even if they are guilty? Would they also be advised to disclose the location of the body?

Attorneys ask their clients to tell them what happened.

 

[magic-cat]

No.

But juries absolutely want to hear a storyline that makes sense -- it goes to the cohesion of the People's case or lack thereof.

Here is a storyline that makes sense. Sociopathalogical Casey Anthony, caring for nobody but herself lies, cheats, steals and engages in sexual relations of a promisucous nature her way through life and along comes a baby-Caylee. This is nice at first as Casey gets lots of attention and she likes that. BUT something changes AFTER baby arrives. The attention is no longer on HER, the camera has refocused on Caylee. Well, this is unacceptable to little miss sociopath, so she begins to wage a war with her parents and Caylee is the PRIZE. She uses their love of Caylee against them and barters for support, privileges, and services (babysitting, etc) in exchange for NOT taking Caylee far far away and them never seeing her again. She drags Caylee along on her spree of immorality and actually sleeps with at least ONE man that we know of with Caylee in the bed with them.

Now Caylee is beginning to talk. This is going to complicate things for Casey because she has been lying about having a job for YEARS and she knows that Caylee is going to give her away. So what does she do for a solution? She begins drugging her with Xanax or anything else she can put her hands on at the moment. But it isn't enough. So she researches some other methods of sedation, chloroform that we know of, and she even looks into what happens in MISSING CHILDRENS CASES...hmmm....Her parents are making it harder and harder on her, catching her in more of her lies and thievery and she knows the game is up when Cindy tells her she has seen a counselor and she is going to take Caylee away from her. Now this just will not do! She will not be displaced by this child and lose her place in her own home, and be left without ANY bargaining power. So what does she do? She puts the plan that has been simmering in her mind for MONTHS now into immediate action! She storms out of the house, grabs the duct tape and tapes the child's mouth and nose and maybe even her eyes with the tape, and for all we know, she taped a chlorformed rag underneath. Caylee dies. Casey bags her up and throws her in the trunk. She must wait for the right moment to dispose of her. She goes on her merry way and acts as if nothing happened and the first chance that she gets when she does not suspect that she will be caught she takes Caylee's body to the dump site and goes in and digs her a grave and she is done with it.

She did not know the body would rise up, and she did not count on it floating in the waters.

Verdict? Guilty as charged! Murder 1!:crazy:

 

[TxRose]

If prosecutors were to present two storylines, that would say to the jury that we really don't know what happened beyond a reasonable doubt.

In their closing argument, any halfway competent defense attorney would have a field day with a two storyline (we're not sure what transpired) approach. They would be doing figurative handstands. Moreover, it would be the talk of the crimetainment media, and the D.A. would have their phone ringing off the hook with demands to remove the prosecutors.

If the prosecutors do not know beyond

That's what I said...I agree with you! LOL. They will not present two storylines. They will go with murder one in my opinion and stick to that. I am not an attorney (though I play one on tv. LOL. JK - I don't) Anyway...I don't know what the rationale is for listing the lesser charge, and whether it is standard for this type of circumstance or not. But I am confident they will produce one theory only...for the reasons you stated.

 

[MissJames]

How could the meter man have seen a bag that was buried?

and you didn't answer my question you threw one back at me.Again,respectfully where is the info the body was not buried?If I have missed it I would greatly appreciate the info.
Thanks Wudge.