PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[Sleuth2010]

Please release the Cold Case file. That’s how crimes are solved. Thanks.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Please release the Cold Case file. That’s how crimes are solved. Thanks.

It was leaked, so some of it is out.

 

[Betty P]

It was leaked, so some of it is out.

Of the information that was revealed, it wasn't much. JMO, some important evidence wasn't followed up on. Important questions left unanswered.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Of the information that was revealed, it wasn't much. JMO, some important evidence wasn't followed up on. Important questions left unanswered.

It was a lot.

The financial stuff was not followed up, but we do know about the unknown account "VG."

 

[Black Diamond]

It was a lot.

The financial stuff was not followed up, but we do know about the unknown account "VG."

We don’t know what LE ran down and ruled out. Nor do we know what leads or angles they didn’t follow through on sufficiently. It’s very possible they tracked down that VG account real fast and it was for any number of explainable purposes like alimony, money to his daughter, money to PF, charitable donation, etc. That’s probably the most frustrating thing about this case - we have no idea what LE found out about a lot of things they investigated, so we’re left to speculate and think about probability.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We don’t know what LE ran down and ruled out. Nor do we know what leads or angles they didn’t follow through on sufficiently. It’s very possible they tracked down that VG account real fast and it was for any number of explainable purposes like alimony, money to his daughter, money to PF, charitable donation, etc. That’s probably the most frustrating thing about this case - we have no idea what LE found out about a lot of things they investigated, so we’re left to speculate and think about probability.

Except they did not, according to the report. Transfer to an unknown account.

 

[Black Diamond]

Except they did not, according to the report. Transfer to an unknown account.

I would venture to guess that was their initial report. It didn’t say that was the end of the road and they exhausted all investigative options to arrive at that “unknown” descriptor.

I wonder how much more of the copied casefile RK has/had that she didn’t release. Any guess on that?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I would venture to guess that was their initial report. It didn’t say that was the end of the road and they exhausted all investigative options to arrive at that “unknown” descriptor.

I wonder how much more of the copied casefile RK has/had that she didn’t release. Any guess on that?

Bank accounts are tied to SSN's. They could determine all accounts under RFG's SNN in the US.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Since this has come up, here is the financial information. It has been out there for a while.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I was also looking through the report of the PSP Criminal Investigation Assessment Unit. Among other thinks, they suggested looking to see if RFG was using his brother's, Roy's, identity.

They also suggested running a Canadian check for both RFG and Roy. That is not unusual, considering that one of the sightings that was not ruled out, Southfield, was relatively close to the Canadian border.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This is a copy of the PSP-CIA recommendations. It not exclusively looking at walkaway, but a lot of it points to that.

 

[Betty P]

This is a copy of the PSP-CIA recommendations. It not exclusively looking at walkaway, but a lot of it points to that.

Thanks for these JJ. They seemed to be trying to cover all the bases, but it appears not all of those recommendations were taken.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks for these JJ. They seemed to be trying to cover all the bases, but it appears not all of those recommendations were taken.

Many, if not most, of them were not taken.

We know that RFG was acting uncharacteristically in days/weeks prior to his disappearance. Everybody called for a grand jury; we don't know if the one empaneled after 2010 investigated the Gricar disappearance.

 

[minazoe]

J.J. do you think you know what happened to Ray? I mean at this point... I know you have many ideas you have gone with. my issue is I can't see a clue and just drop the subject or call it irrelevant when it has not been explained. Some things cannot be used as evidence because they don't reach the bar and are thus rendered inadmissible.. but I can't let go of a few things in this story. Things that I feel are knowable or provable or are mistakes..it feels intentionally stalled . giving me a coverup vibe, because they just dropped Ray...they dropped the subject...they packed up their stuff and went home.
mOO

 

[Betty P]

The following is a fairly good timeline of the Jerry Sandusky abuse scandal and investigation. It's written by Reuters reporters and seems pretty comprehensive

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/timeline-jerry-sandusky-sex-abuse-case-idUSBRE85M027/

Another timeline

Timeline: The child sex abuse case of Jerry Sandusky

Ten years ago, former Penn State football defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was charged with 10 felony counts in connection with his child sex abuse that spanned decades.The Collegian looks back

www.psucollegian.com

Freeh Report

IIRC, Gricar assisted Freeh on his investigation

The Freeh Report

The report by Louis Freeh on the independent investigation of Penn State University surrounding the child abuse committed by Jerry Sandusky.

archive.nytimes.com

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J. do you think you know what happened to Ray? I mean at this point... I know you have many ideas you have gone with. my issue is I can't see a clue and just drop the subject or call it irrelevant when it has not been explained. Some things cannot be used as evidence because they don't reach the bar and are thus rendered inadmissible.. but I can't let go of a few things in this story. Things that I feel are knowable or provable or are mistakes..it feels intentionally stalled . giving me a coverup vibe, because they just dropped Ray...they dropped the subject...they packed up their stuff and went home.
mOO

The most likely option is walkaway. That is not proof.

I think that local LE thought that a voluntary departure would damage RFG's legacy and did not pursue investigative avenues; I also think that they were not willing to investigate something that did not appear to be criminal due to cost.

There have been some people who basically thing RFG would be a terrible person if he walked away. If he did:

1. He did not make it look like anything that it wasn't.

2. Did not commit any crime.

3. Provided for his heirs.

If that is what RFG did, I find no fault in it.

 

[Betty P]

The most likely option is walkaway. That is not proof.

I think that local LE thought that a voluntary departure would damage RFG's legacy and did not pursue investigative avenues; I also think that they were not willing to investigate something that did not appear to be criminal due to cost.

There have been some people who basically thing RFG would be a terrible person if he walked away. If he did:

1. He did not make it look like anything that it wasn't.

2. Did not commit any crime.

3. Provided for his heirs.

If that is what RFG did, I find no fault in it.

I don't see any evidence of RFG doing anything wrong. The only suspicious thing I've read about was the suspicion that, in working with Louis Freeh on his report of the Sandusky crimes, someone may have given Freeh incriminating information against influential people who had knowledge of the early reports on Sandusky's assaults on kids. Just some speculation. Otherwise, there's no evidence of Gricar being involved in any kind of illegal or scandalous activity.

I assume the Centre County prosecutors office conducts regular audits of their finances. If Gricar was involved in anything illegal, it would have turned up in an audit.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't see any evidence of RFG doing anything wrong. The only suspicious thing I've read about was the suspicion that, in working with Louis Freeh on his report of the Sandusky crimes, someone may have given Freeh incriminating information against influential people who had knowledge of the early reports on Sandusky's assaults on kids. Just some speculation. Otherwise, there's no evidence of Gricar being involved in any kind of illegal or scandalous activity.

I assume the Centre County prosecutors office conducts regular audits of their finances. If Gricar was involved in anything illegal, it would have turned up in an audit.

There was an audit of the office when he went missing; everything was in order.

Freeh was not involved until well after the indictment, which was more than 6 years after RFG went missing.

 

[Black Diamond]

Since this has come up, here is the financial information. It has been out there for a while.

That report was made in 4/21/05. IMO from the context of the write up it was the very first findings of their preliminary investigation a few days after Ray disappeared, and they hadn’t been able to follow up on it much yet as of then. It’s very possible, almost likely, that LE identified the savings account and VG account sometime after 4/21/05.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That report was made in 4/21/05. IMO from the context of the write up it was the very first findings of their preliminary investigation a few days after Ray disappeared, and they hadn’t been able to follow up on it much yet as of then. It’s very possible, almost likely, that LE identified the savings account and VG account sometime after 4/21/05.

Using the IVES database, which the state has access to, they could find the account is 48 hours.