PA - Kenzie Houk, 26, pregnant, murdered, Wampum, 20 Feb 2009

[SuziQ]

(snipped for space)
I wont even touch on the subject of him getting a gun for Christmas, with the family knowing how he felt.

ITA with this. I live in a rural area where guns are pretty much in every house. I'm a gun rights supporter. But I've never kept guns in my house. There have always been too many kids running around. Kids are smart and I feel they will figure out a way to get to a locked up gun if they want to.

Anyways, my son is a rough and tumble kid who hunts and who's friends all own hunting rifles and shotguns. So naturally he's always wanted one since he was about 6. At 11 I gave him a fairly harmless airsoft gun with plastic BB's as a test. He failed the test. One day he shot up most of the walls in my house. I'm still patching up dents years later. We now have a rule that he can own a gun when he's living somewhere else and over 18. So yeah, a kid that shows any type of problem shouldn't have access to guns ever.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

Is this just a case of the "boys will be boys" mindset? Under the circumstances, if people in this child's life truly thought him to be threatening or possibly outright dangerous, why did NO ONE do anything or say anything?

It diesnt look like the people that have even first hand knowledge of his threats give a crap.

Theyve said in many reports that they want him charged as an adult & sent to PRISON !
imo, he needs to be sent to place for KIDS , not prison. He needs help. His BRAIN & body isnt even finished growing yet.

imo, theres a few other folks that hold at least a small tad of ownership in this. Wonder how they would feel if the the shoe was on the other foot.


If a state (or our country) wants / has laws saying a child can go to PRISON, they our country needs to build PRISONs, especially made for CHILDREN ! They need schooling and alot more other things besides a 8X5 cell.

 

[miimaa]

I agree that it isn't just about absentee fathers, but absentee parents. I also agree with those that say blended (step) families really should get intense counseling PRIOR to marriage, and at least for the first year. Blending my family (DH had one child, I had one child) was VERY difficult. Not that we didn't love each other, but it took a long time for the "rules" of each home to blend. It also takes time for children who live with only one parent to be able to share that parent with others.

I dated (not lived with) my husband for three years, before we married. I'm sorry, but people jump into relationships WAY too fast, when they have kids. They only think about themselves, not the good of their children. He was the only person I introduced to my child, since my divorce, because I knew I'd eventually marry him. People have no business moving in with their boy/girlfriends immediately (and IMO, not at all when they have kids) and then immediately starting another family.

I'm not "blaming" the victim, I just wish people would put as much thought into their families, as they do as to what computer or car they will buy.

I wholeheartedly agree!! Seen this many times - even with my own sister. She got a divorce then moved a boyfriend in who started telling her kids what to do. They were resentful of that because they still had a father - he just didn't live there anymore. That boyfriend didn't last long and he was out and another one in. The second boyfriend had kids of his own that he only saw every other weekend. They would stay at my sister's house with her kids. Not a pretty "happy family' situation. Her kids would get more resentful because boyfriend #2 that saw them everyday disciplined them BUT NOT his own kids that he saw only every other weekend. Sadly boyfriend #2 eventually was out and a 3rd one comes along. She married that one but it only lasted a few years. There again a new guy telling the kids what to do, disciplining them since he was providing them with a place to live all while their own father still in their lives. These "quick and instant as mashed potatos" families are not good for kids.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

My mother has worked in a state children's psychiatric hospital for years and she says the kids they're getting in keep getting worse. Juvenile detention will send children over from there to the state hospital and they have hired staff (look like bouncers) to stay with these kids every single minute. A couple of children in there have 2 "bouncers" to them. They're just too dangerous..

The question is though.....why are they in there ? What were/are the charges ?

Murder
Drugs
Domestic Violence
Cutting
?????????????????

And what the median age of these kids ? 5 , 8 , 10 , 13 , 16 , 18 ???

THAT makes a differnce in my opinion.

 

[Trino]

It diesnt look like the people that have even first hand knowledge of his threats give a crap.

Theyve said in many reports that they want him charged as an adult & sent to PRISON !
imo, he needs to be sent to place for KIDS , not prison. He needs help. His BRAIN & body isnt even finished growing yet. imo, theres a few other folks that hold at least a small tad of ownership in this. Wonder how they would feel if the the shoe was on the other foot.
If a state (or our country) wants / has laws saying a child can go to PRISON, they our country needs to build PRISONs, especially made for CHILDREN ! They need schooling and alot more other things besides a 8X5 cell.

I don't know that either prison or a regular juvenile detention is the correct place for this boy, although I don't see him going home as a resolution either. Most juvenile offenders are in JD for reasons such as breaking & entering, theft, car theft, etc. This is a long way from murder.

Would the father want responsibility for the boy at this point? It is interesting to ask where the boy's bio mother is.

 

[hannahsnana]

It diesnt look like the people that have even first hand knowledge of his threats give a crap.

Theyve said in many reports that they want him charged as an adult & sent to PRISON !
imo, he needs to be sent to place for KIDS , not prison. He needs help. His BRAIN & body isnt even finished growing yet.

imo, theres a few other folks that hold at least a small tad of ownership in this. Wonder how they would feel if the the shoe was on the other foot.


If a state (or our country) wants / has laws saying a child can go to PRISON, they our country needs to build PRISONs, especially made for CHILDREN ! They need schooling and alot more other things besides a 8X5 cell.

Yes, by all means let's nurture him in the growing of his 'brain and body'. Should we blame the teacher?........oh, and yes, the bus driver?

 

[hannahsnana]

I don't know that either prison or a regular juvenile detention is the correct place for this boy, although I don't see him going home as a resolution either. Most juvenile offenders are in JD for reasons such as breaking & entering, theft, car theft, etc. This is a long way from murder.

Would the father want responsibility for the boy at this point? It is interesting to ask where the boy's bio mother is.

The question as to the whereabouts of the mother has been asked numerous times, and to date, I have not seen it addressed at all.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, WHY are you blaming the victim(s)????? When I see the pictures of those little girls, it breaks my heart. Seeing the boy's picture leaves me just......cold.

I am not blaming anyone. The Woulda, coulda, shoulda, thoughts are a part of life ANYTIME something horrible happens. Hindsight (sp?) ya know. I like to think that over the past gazillion years, folks have learned a few things from the woulda, coulda, shouldas.

I am however saying that there are some adults in this young boys life that could of done things different. Had they, theres a possibility that 2 people would be alive & we wouldnt be here.

Maybe, just maybe, theres another family going through a simular situation and due to seeing this case unfold, the ADULTS involved are taking different measures to make sure this doesnt happen to their family.

I dont think anyone on this earth is or would ever "blame" the victims in this case.

I just think people need to be more in touch with their kids.

I firmly believe that this could of been prevented. Theres not a doubt in my mind at this point.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have also read that the mother was trying to include him, get along with or whatever they want to call it. Its just my personal opinion based on my experience that it wasn't enough & wasn't done the right way.

The thing that irks me is HER family and other people have said that the boy said he was going to "pop her & the girls". He made threats to kill all 3 of them for at least 2 months and Jason Kraner told the press, family , Chris & Kenzie .... they didn't believe it.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jfUUCNd8ljeuLU4Qr3BF_5pwHXlwD96I2R300



Then theres this....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29363987/

Debate lingers over whether Brown should be tried as an adult. The family thinks he should because there are signs the act may have been premeditated.

May have been ? What ? He told them what he was thinking of doing & they didn't believe him.

"He, the kid, tried to muffle the sound and he didn't know what he was doing? Then, walk out and go to school? ... It's unbelievable. What would possess him to (do that)? It's crazy," said Jack Houk, the victim's father.

UNbelievable ? Um, no...he said he was thinking about / wanted to kill all 3 of them.


I haven't seen 1 single adult step up ! Thats pretty sad.

And for the record.....I feel hurt also for this family very much. Something similar happened in my family exactly 1 year ago involving an 11 yr old boy with problems. Thank God my niece didn't die ! Mant in my family raised all kinds of he!! re: the sentence - his momma is the one that should be in jail !

Well I will leave it up to you to bash and berate the murder victims and their family members. I, however, placed total blame on the one, who covered the shotgun with a blanket and crept up to where his ,soon to be step mom slept, and blew her away.

Over the years here and on other boards I have read several comments from posters who have also said in the past that their children made the same type of threats. Since they are still here and well, I think they thought at the time, it was an immature angry outburst and would blow over and it seems they were right. No parent is going to consider that their own child is seriously plotting to murder someone. A parent's mind is not geared that way.

I am sure since the threats had subsided in the past several weeks that both the g/f and dad, thought progress was being made with their continued efforts to show him he was loved and special. Little did they know it wouldn't work but that is certainly no fault of theirs for wanting to believe in the child or thinking progress had been made.

IMO these murders happened because this boy was all about ME ME ME ME. He didn't want to share love or anything else with anyone. He wanted it all or nothing and when he had to share and learn to be a part of a family he wanted no part of it. That wouldn't be solely about him.

It shows me that this poor mother, even though he threatened her when the dad wasn't around, she still wanted him as her step son, and thought if she kept showing him how much she cared about him, he would want her and his step siblings too. However, she was wrong and paid the ultimate price for believing he wasn't serious. JMO

imoo

 

[southcitymom]

I am not blaming anyone. The Woulda, coulda, shoulda, thoughts are a part of life ANYTIME something horrible happens. Hindsight (sp?) ya know. I like to think that over the past gazillion years, folks have learned a few things from the woulda, coulda, shouldas.

I am however saying that there are some adults in this young boys life that could of done things different. Had they, theres a possibility that 2 people would be alive & we wouldnt be here.

Maybe, just maybe, theres another family going through a simular situation and due to seeing this case unfold, the ADULTS involved are taking different measures to make sure this doesnt happen to their family.

I dont think anyone on this earth is or would ever "blame" the victims in this case.

I just think people need to be more in touch with their kids.

I firmly believe that this could of been prevented. Theres not a doubt in my mind at this point.

While I respect your opinion, I couldn't disagree with it more strongly. In the case at hand, we have no idea that this family was not enough in touch with this child - I can't make the leap that they weren't. In my greater experience, I have seen many, many caring, connected adults hit from out of the blue by decisions their children make.

While it is true that all of us should make every effort to strengthen the bonds we have with our children it is equally as true that we are not responsible for our children's decisions. We do what we can to prune and direct with love - but in the end, kids - like every other human on the planet - do exactly what they want to do.

 

[hannahsnana]

Well I will leave it up to you to bash and berate the murder victims and their family members. I, however, placed total blame on the one, who covered the shotgun with a blanket and crept up to where his ,soon to be step mom slept, and blew her away.

Over the years here and on other boards I have read several comments from posters who have also said in the past that their children made the same type of threats. Since they are still here and well, I think they thought at the time, it was an immature angry outburst and would blow over and it seems they were right. No parent is going to consider that their own child is seriously plotting to murder someone. A parent's mind is not geared that way.

I am sure since the threats had subsided in the past several weeks that both the g/f and dad, thought progress was being made with their continued efforts to show him he was loved and special. Little did they know it wouldn't work but that is certainly no fault of theirs for wanting to believe in the child or thinking progress had been made.

IMO these murders happened because this boy was all about ME ME ME ME. He didn't want to share love or anything else with anyone. He wanted it all or nothing and when he had to share and learn to be a part of a family he wanted no part of it. That wouldn't be solely about him.

It shows me that this poor mother, even though he threatened her when the dad wasn't around, she still wanted him as her step son, and thought if she kept showing him how much she cared about him, he would want her and his step siblings too. However, she was wrong and paid the ultimate price for believing he wasn't serious. JMO

imoo

Ocean, thank you for your post. I MUST calm down and maybe just stop reading about this case, but before I go, I want to say this. I can't believe there are adults posting on this message board or any other who would say their child had threatened in the past to kill someone, family member or not. I can assure that if any of my adult children, now 44, 39 and 32 years old, when they were children, had EVER made such a statement, a four-alarm fire warning would have gone off with me. I would have had him/her to a therapist ASAP. I would never trust that child again, my biological offspring or not. I have a lot more to say, but can't go any further without my reflux disease going off the charts.

 

[TopGunner]

How about everyone taking a deep breath and going for a run around the block to cool off?

Stay on topic and attack the post, not the poster.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

Well I will leave it up to you to bash and berate the murder victims and their family members. I, however, placed total blame on the one, who covered the shotgun with a blanket and crept up to where his ,soon to be step mom slept, and blew her away.

Over the years here and on other boards I have read several comments from posters who have also said in the past that their children made the same type of threats. Since they are still here and well, I think they thought at the time, it was an immature angry outburst and would blow over and it seems they were right. No parent is going to consider that their own child is seriously plotting to murder someone. A parent's mind is not geared that way.

I am sure since the threats had subsided in the past several weeks that both the g/f and dad, thought progress was being made with their continued efforts to show him he was loved and special. Little did they know it wouldn't work but that is certainly no fault of theirs for wanting to believe in the child or thinking progress had been made.

IMO these murders happened because this boy was all about ME ME ME ME. He didn't want to share love or anything else with anyone. He wanted it all or nothing and when he had to share and learn to be a part of a family he wanted no part of it. That wouldn't be solely about him.

It shows me that this poor mother, even though he threatened her when the dad wasn't around, she still wanted him as her step son, and thought if she kept showing him how much she cared about him, he would want her and his step siblings too. However, she was wrong and paid the ultimate price for believing he wasn't serious. JMO

imoo

I have not bashed anyone. see above.

My whole point is for adults....across the board, to simply pay attn. and dont, for a second, blow threats or bad/strange behavior off.

Thats all Im saying. Adults need to change their mindset on this...

At this point, we dont know everything about this case. Most of what we know comes from the mothers family.

I was shocked that the dad wants his son released . He does NOT need to be released in my opinion....but i dont think going to "prison" with older guys is right either.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree that it isn't just about absentee fathers, but absentee parents. I also agree with those that say blended (step) families really should get intense counseling PRIOR to marriage, and at least for the first year. Blending my family (DH had one child, I had one child) was VERY difficult. Not that we didn't love each other, but it took a long time for the "rules" of each home to blend. It also takes time for children who live with only one parent to be able to share that parent with others.

I dated (not lived with) my husband for three years, before we married. I'm sorry, but people jump into relationships WAY too fast, when they have kids. They only think about themselves, not the good of their children. He was the only person I introduced to my child, since my divorce, because I knew I'd eventually marry him. People have no business moving in with their boy/girlfriends immediately (and IMO, not at all when they have kids) and then immediately starting another family.

I'm not "blaming" the victim, I just wish people would put as much thought into their families, as they do as to what computer or car they will buy.

I am so sorry it was difficult for you, Soobs. I have heard of this happening with so many blended families. I have also heard of good marriages with two people that deeply loved each other splitting because of the havoc the step children wrought in the home. IMO children today know they hold much more power to control than ever before and they don't hesitate to use that power.

However, when my hubby and I married over 26 years ago, he had two children and I had three. From the inception of our marriage the first thing we did after we were all in our wedding was to remove "step" from our marriage and relationship. We have never referred to our children as step children. All five are our children and we are a family unit. From moment one they never felt exclusion but inclusion and all five of our children has been one of the greatest blessings in our life. My hubby's natural children knows that I love them as much as if I had birthed them myself, and my natural children know that their daddy loves all of them from the bottom of his heart as a true, devoted and loving daddy. We show them each and everyday of their lives and they all graciously return their love to us with ease.

Also it taught them all to be siblings........not step siblings but 4 sisters and 1 brother who are bonded by the heart and not the blood line.

We needed no counseling. We just went about it from moment one that they were all our family with the same rules and expectations applied to them all. It has always been about them feeling included never different or excluded. I know God has blessed us because it was always so easy. All of the girls today are grown and so is our son, so now we have precious grandchildren too and the circle of love goes on. They all remain very close to us and we to them.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have not bashed anyone. see above.

My whole point is for adults....across the board, to simply pay attn. and don't, for a second, blow threats or bad/strange behavior off.

Thats all Im saying. Adults need to change their mindset on this...

At this point, we don't know everything about this case. Most of what we know comes from the mothers family.

I was shocked that the dad wants his son released . He does NOT need to be released in my opinion....but i don't think going to "prison" with older guys is right either.

I think a parent uses denial as a coping mechanism. As long as he can convince himself his son is not capable of doing this, the longer he can have before he has to deal with the brutal truth.

moo

 

[Trino]

Sometimes I believe society has difficulty with ages. IMO we must remember that physical age does not equal mental age. I've seen very mature kids who are 8, 9, 10 years old, yet have also seen kids who are that age that act as though they were six. What does 11 mean when discussing this boy's mental capabilities? Only a psychologist can tell, and we can bet he'll be evaluated.

IMO, because he planned the murder, I believe his actions are closer to those of an adult, but I don't know that his ideas went beyond going to school or lying about the black truck, not indicative of adult actions, which would go beyond an initial stage of planning.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

I agree that it isn't just about absentee fathers, but absentee parents. I also agree with those that say blended (step) families really should get intense counseling PRIOR to marriage, and at least for the first year. Blending my family (DH had one child, I had one child) was VERY difficult. Not that we didn't love each other, but it took a long time for the "rules" of each home to blend. It also takes time for children who live with only one parent to be able to share that parent with others.

I dated (not lived with) my husband for three years, before we married. I'm sorry, but people jump into relationships WAY too fast, when they have kids. They only think about themselves, not the good of their children. He was the only person I introduced to my child, since my divorce, because I knew I'd eventually marry him. People have no business moving in with their boy/girlfriends immediately (and IMO, not at all when they have kids) and then immediately starting another family.

I'm not "blaming" the victim, I just wish people would put as much thought into their families, as they do as to what computer or car they will buy.

I agree & reposting from pg 3 my situation reply to a diff. poster ........

But counseling doesnt have to cost anything, unless someone just wants to go that route. I also believe "inclusion" is a MUST for kids when a new baby is coming .
When me & my husband started dating, I didnt meet his girls for a long time. I even talked to his mother about how long to wait, etc.
Once I did meet them, every other weekend IF me & hubby wanted to do something , his daughters were asked FIRST ... and if they didnt want to do something with me tagging along, so be it. Both of us put those little girls first. They were 7 & 4 at that time.

Both girls were in our wedding. It was only family & 2 friends there. They were included in the ceremony. They stood with their daddy and I married ALL 3 OF THEM.

A few years later, we talked about starting a family ... all 4 of us talked about it. I got pregnant and the girls went to appt's & sono's with us, free. They went to Sibling classes at the hospital, again, free. their schools knew so if something seemed "off" at school, we would know - they had "girl talks with the guidance counselers, again, free... Their church also had things about/for step-familys & new siblings, yep...again, it was free, etc....me & hubby took blended classes at the hospital too (free also). And lots of library books we checked out with them.

MY* girls are now 23 & 20 and they adore their little brother (13 now) & little sister (8 now).
You are absolutely right. The counseling should start before so the children KNOW that they are thought of first.

The resourses are out there. Parents just need to think about their kids instead of themselves , especially when it comes to lifechanging issues like this.



""" Housework can still wait ! Theres better things to do, like throwing sticks and reading Tip, Tip & Mitten """

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean, thank you for your post. I MUST calm down and maybe just stop reading about this case, but before I go, I want to say this. I can't believe there are adults posting on this message board or any other who would say their child had threatened in the past to kill someone, family member or not. I can assure that if any of my adult children, now 44, 39 and 32 years old, when they were children, had EVER made such a statement, a four-alarm fire warning would have gone off with me. I would have had him/her to a therapist ASAP. I would never trust that child again, my biological offspring or not. I have a lot more to say, but can't go any further without my reflux disease going off the charts.

I have never experienced it either hannah but I sure have read that it was said to other posters on various sites I read. In fact it came up in the Az case just recently due to that boy threatening to kill his dad.

I don't know what I would do if faced with it. I think I would be shocked, horrified and mad as h*ll all at the same time. I am thankful I have never had to endure that.

imoo

 

[Linda7NJ]

Ocean, thank you for your post. I MUST calm down and maybe just stop reading about this case, but before I go, I want to say this. I can't believe there are adults posting on this message board or any other who would say their child had threatened in the past to kill someone, family member or not. I can assure that if any of my adult children, now 44, 39 and 32 years old, when they were children, had EVER made such a statement, a four-alarm fire warning would have gone off with me. I would have had him/her to a therapist ASAP. I would never trust that child again, my biological offspring or not. I have a lot more to say, but can't go any further without my reflux disease going off the charts.

My own son is 11, he has never uttered those words. He's never even said he hated me or his dad. He will go as far as "you are so mean" but always qualifies it by saying "sometimes" ROFL

If those words ever came out of his mouth, I honestly don't know how I would react...I would be stunned beyond belief!!! I would want him immediately evaluated. Making an appointment would be out of the question. I would take it seriously same as if he ever threatened to harm himself.

All these people that admit to their own children saying such things, do they consider themselves a permissive parent? I just can't wrap my head around the total lack of respect in some homes.

I wanted to add...it's a MUTUAL RESPECT in my home. It goes both ways, I would never say such things either, not in anger nor even in jest.

 

[SoobsinMI]

I am so sorry it was difficult for you, Soobs. I have heard of this happening with so many blended families. I have also heard of good marriages with two people that deeply loved each other splitting because of the havoc the step children wrought in the home. IMO children today know they hold much more power to control than ever before and they don't hesitate to use that power.

However, when my hubby and I married over 26 years ago, he had two children and I had three. From the inception of our marriage the first thing we did after we were all in our wedding was to remove "step" from our marriage and relationship. We have never referred to our children as step children. imoo

We've never referred to our family as "step" either (except online, so that I may describe situations) however it wasn't a smooth transition. I would venture to say that your situation is not the norm. I've been a member of a "stepfamily" board, AM a "step" daughter, etc. I will say that our initial problems probably had a lot to do with my SD's own issues. However, I also believe that other parents play a huge part in blending as well. My ex and I get along, as well as his wife, and my DH. My son knows he has four parents who parent together, effectively. There is no going behind any of our backs, to try and manipulate. I'm sorry to say that the same can't be said for my SD's mother. It's all in the past, however, as my SD is 18. Even though she lived with us (with her father since she was one year old) we had our difficult moments.