PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #3

[JurysOut]

So....several of us have reached the same - probably faulty - conclusion since yesterday.

That's interesting.


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[cluciano63]

So....several of us have reached the same - probably faulty - conclusion since yesterday.

That's interesting.


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? What am I missing...

 

[epiphany]

Photos of Entrances to Kortne's Apartment:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - PA PA-Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21,Palmyra, 29 July 2012 TIMELINE/MEDIA ONLY *NO DISCUSSION


Link to Media & Timeline:

PA PA-Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21,Palmyra, 29 July 2012 TIMELINE/MEDIA ONLY *NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[PalmyraDad]

I think your theory is as likely as any. Under that scenario, I think it's even possible that it was unintended, as in Kortne came back at him again, kicking and swinging, and he struck back only meaning to stop it and hit her too hard or hit her just right and the unthinkable happened. At that point, given his past, I could see him panicking and thinking he can't get caught and had to hide the body.

At this point, that's where I am at. Like I said, I'm open to any and all theories but this is where I keep drifting. In many situations, the cover up is the crime.

 

[JulieR]

I really think (thinking like I was, when I was her age) she grabbed a knife to slash a tire or a hammer to smash something and one of the neighbors ran into her outside. I can almost feel how upsetting it would be for TS ... he was ripped off by ???? back in 2010 and now the same age group is partying all hours right beside him. Besides that dealing with two dogs.....grrrrr. One thing for sure after the explosion of that night I don't believe everyone just went to bed, heck I would need a few drinks to calm down. I think the stomping could have been banging on the walls, not the floors.

 

[PalmyraDad]

I don't have I lie detector, but I believe TS lied about not knowing and not hearing.

Here's another far fetched scenario, related to the powder keg atmosphere-

Neighbor who had already been involved in an altercation and been physically assaulted calls LE one more time at 4:12.

CP says he went to sleep at 4:20, IIRC.

What if the neighbor got tired of waiting and waiting for LE, climbs the back steps to the second floor between 4:20 & 4:28 ish to either give KS a piece of his mind or beg her to give him some peace and quiet.

KS steps out on the deck (no shoes, cigarettes, phone), the two have a little go 'round. KS is still inebriated and tumbles down the back steps, breaking her neck. (simply additional thumping and banging to the casual onlooker) (on listener?)

It's velvet black behind the house. The neighbor's thinking 'Oh, $h*t! I called the cops!'. Neighbor takes KS into his house, waits for LE, ignores their knock, disposes of the body later, either that morning or the next night.

Outrageous, I know. Not plausible.


ETA: I see this is basically epiphany's scenario. Should have read back, sorry!

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Something happening on the deck or back steps isn't all that far fetched. Unless the downstairs neighbors were in the kitchen, by their back door, they never would have heard a thing. Someone could go up or down those steps and they'd be none the wiser.

 

[epiphany]

I really think (thinking like I was, when I was her age) she grabbed a knife to slash a tire or a hammer to smash something and one of the neighbors ran into her outside. I can almost feel how upsetting it would be for TS ... he was ripped off by ???? back in 2010 and now the same age group is partying all hours right beside him. Besides that dealing with two dogs.....grrrrr. One thing for sure after the an explosion of that night I don't believe everyone just went to bed, heck I would need a few drinks to calm down. I think the stomping could have been banging on the walls, not the floors.

Respectfully bolded by me

It's been consistently reported in MSM as stomping sounds from the floors of her apartment, or stomping and banging sounds from her apartment. Banging could be either on walls or floors. Stomping usually indicates feet on floor.

 

[JulieR]

Thing that is also really odd to me is that at some point BH's dad picks up his dog. Kortne's mother said her dog was at the door when she got there Monday morning. So when did he pick up the dog and didn't he notice she wasn't there... yet all her belongings were? (unless both dogs were there and Kortne's mother just didn't say that). However she always said Sheba, Kortne's dog was at the door.


I am just waiting to hear that there was someone else living there (room mate) or something ...........I mean how many more people can you add to the mix here.............gezzzz.

Right now I just can't get away from TS, I mean getting a lawyer!! I don't care if he works for him or not, don't talk to the media but you don't need a lawyer if you did nothing wroung. Unless you think they found something on you, or you could slip up they yeah it wise to get one. JMO

 

[epiphany]

Something happening on the deck or back steps isn't all that far fetched. Unless the downstairs neighbors were in the kitchen, by their back door, they never would have heard a thing. Someone could go up or down those steps and they'd be none the wiser.

In our speculation re this scenario, Kortne is last seen in the clothes she was wearing that night, indicating that she never went to sleep. Mom or Dad reports no other clothes missing.

Also, in this scenario, her shoes are not missing as reported by Mom or Dad, indicating her need to remain quiet if she intended to just step out, or her shoes are not missing indicating that she was caught unaware that morning.

 

[epiphany]

It appears that Kortne's neighbors [downstairs neighbors, IMO] have said that TS called the police after K stomped on her apt floor. At that point, I believe TS is downstairs and they would have said as such to Father and to LE.

Now, where the witnesses [downstairs neighbors] say TS said he was going after the last call to LE, or whether or not TS remained downstairs with them...that we know nothing of.

Interesting.

According to Kortne’s father and neighbors, TS called police after Kortne stomped on her apartment floor in anger.

Police said they knocked on both doors but made no contact with Kortne or TS, according to Matthew Scott, a Stouffer family friend.

TS, 44, declined to discuss the night’s events on the advice of a lawyer.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...disappeared_am.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[Chanler]

Thing that is also really odd to me is that at some point BH's dad picks up his dog. Kortne's mother said her dog was at the door when she got there Monday morning. So when did he pick up the dog and didn't he notice she wasn't there... yet all her belongings were? (unless both dogs were there and Kortne's mother just didn't say that). However she always said Sheba, Kortne's dog was at the door.


I am just waiting to hear that there was someone else living there (room mate) or something ...........I mean how many more people can you add to the mix here.............gezzzz.

Right now I just can't get away from TS, I mean getting a lawyer!! I don't care if he works for him or not, don't talk to the media but you don't need a lawyer if you did nothing wroung. Unless you think they found something on you, or you could slip up they yeah it wise to get one. JMO

Hi, JulieR. I don't see anything wrong about getting a lawyer, but I do think that one doesn't relinquish control after you do so. If I were in a similar position, I would speak with the police with the lawyer at my side and I might even release a prepared statement to the media. Not doing either, which seems to be the case, is exactly the type of inaction that invites suspicion and causes pain to all concerned.

 

[JulieR]

Hi, JulieR. I don't see anything wrong about getting a lawyer, but I do think that one doesn't relinquish control after you do so. If I were in a similar position, I would speak with the police with the lawyer at my side and I might even release a prepared statement to the media. Not doing either, which seems to be the case, is exactly the type of inaction that invites suspicion and causes pain to all concerned.

I know everyone feels differently. I feel like it makes you look like there is something to hide when you get a lawyer, plus the fact he lied already just adds to it. I am pretty sure LE feels the same way when someone gets lawyered up, It puts a layer between the LE and TS they have to make apointments to talk to all parties at the same time and if the lawyer don't want his party to talk they just cancel and hold off......it just makes it a mess......JMO however I know if my son was involved I would get him a lawyer his mouth runs like a river....laughing.

 

[Truman]

I know everyone feels differently. I feel like it makes you look like there is something to hide when you get a lawyer, plus the fact he lied already just adds to it. I am pretty sure LE feels the same way when someone gets lawyered up, It puts a layer between the LE and TS they have to make apointments to talk to all parties at the same time and if the lawyer don't want his party to talk they just cancel and hold off......it just makes it a mess......JMO however I know if my son was involved I would get him a lawyer his mouth runs like a river....laughing.

My concern about the lawyer is how quickly TS decided he needed one. I think if you're being questioned repeatedly by LE or family, or you feel the investigation is aimed in your direction, at some point it's logical to retain counsel. But as I recall, he said he had a lawyer very early in the investigation. I'm short on time right now, but I will find links later tonight and try to figure out the exact date.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

If I found myself a player in a case- I would IMMEDIATELY retain an attorney. and I would recommend it to anyone in a similar situation.

 

[StacyMarie83]

I am the complete opposite! I would NOT get a lawyer until I felt like a suspect...I would not feel like a suspect unless I was guilty of some sort MOO

 

[jadejazzkayla]

I am the complete opposite! I would NOT get a lawyer until I felt like a suspect...I would not feel like a suspect unless I was guilty of some sort MOO

If I have a question regarding my health - I immediately go to the doctor also.

 

[mom2four717]

We have only heard from TS via the media, that he has a lawyer and that he doesn't know KS very well, right?
What if TS just wanted the media to leave him alone. The two things he is reported to have said are good ways to become uninteresting and then off limits to the media.

I don't know what his real story is, but when we are accusing him of lying we must stay mindful that it was to the media not the police (that we know of).

I am not trying to rain on our brain storming!

 

[cluciano63]

We have only heard from TS via the media, that he has a lawyer and that he doesn't know KS very well, right?
What if TS just wanted the media to leave him alone. The two things he is reported to have said are good ways to become uninteresting and then off limits to the media.

I don't know what his real story is, but when we are accusing him of lying we must stay mindful that it was to the media not the police (that we know of).

I am not trying to rain on our brain storming!

But he was also quoted as saying he never heard anything that night, when, clearly, he was involved in the altercation. So it is confusing.

 

[Chanler]

I know everyone feels differently. I feel like it makes you look like there is something to hide when you get a lawyer, plus the fact he lied already just adds to it. I am pretty sure LE feels the same way when someone gets lawyered up, It puts a layer between the LE and TS they have to make apointments to talk to all parties at the same time and if the lawyer don't want his party to talk they just cancel and hold off......it just makes it a mess......JMO however I know if my son was involved I would get him a lawyer his mouth runs like a river....laughing.

Hi, JulieR. I think that law enforcement draw conclusions and sometimes they do so very early and sometimes they do so erroneously. If I were brought in for questioning, it would be only the second time I have been interviewed by the police. The first after a co-worker was murdered by a co-worker and the police were seeking information about their relationship. There was no possible way that I would have been viewed as a suspect. But if another resident of my apartment died after I had an argument with her, I would definitely want a lawyer by my side because of my total lack of experience being interrogated.

A lawyer friend of mine reminds me that clients still call the shots.

And it's thinking about loose-lipped (but innocent) people that makes me think that this is good advice. I'm also remembering how many suspects have been arrested and even convicted for crimes that they never committed.

 

[JurysOut]

Hi, JulieR. I think that law enforcement draw conclusions and sometimes they do so very early and sometimes they do so erroneously. If I were brought in for questioning, it would be only the second time I have been interviewed by the police. The first after a co-worker was murdered by a co-worker and the police were seeking information about their relationship. There was no possible way that I would have been viewed as a suspect. But if another resident of my apartment died after I had an argument with her, I would definitely want a lawyer by my side because of my total lack of experience being interrogated.

A lawyer friend of mine reminds me that clients still call the shots.

And it's thinking about loose-lipped (but innocent) people that makes me think that this is good advice. I'm also remembering how many suspects have been arrested and even convicted for crimes that they never committed.

That frightens me, too.

I'm a trial addict and about half of the time, I don't understand how a case was even brought, let alone got to trial

Sometimes I think about that when I'm walking around. I just dropped some hair here. What happens if someone gets murdered and just happens to fall on my hair? (but not often, I'm not quite delusional)

So even though I occasionally cook up a scenario or two, I really have no idea who did what.

My jury's always out until the jury comes in.

Welcome new posters! So glad to see you here!

Kortne deserves attention.


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