PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #5

[BloodHoundSleuther]

someone may be better to answer...
but I do recall we discussed why the officer's name that answered the approx. 4:15 call, arriving around 4:30, was never released. It was a different officer but no name was ever released and I know we did question that on this thread. That is why some said perhaps they "just drove by".....
anyone care to help me out here??
thank you, snoop.

I recall someone saying something to the effect of, the most human thing to do at that ungodly hour, provided things were quiet would just be to drive by. These are not my thoughts however, I don't know if this is what you are referring to or not?

It was also brought up earlier in this thread that the officers name may not have been released due to negligence, these are not the exact words of what was said, but the overall meaning is accurate.

If LE realized that the actions of their police officer was negligent, maybe this would be a valid reason from their perspective not to release the police officers name. Maybe this would be all the more reason to deny outside assistance regarding the investigation. Just speculation on my part.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

I just noticed something odd, in reviewing the first websleuths thread regarding KS. Everyone seems focused on the 3:15 AM arrival of LE, it isn't until 8/8/8/12, page 6 of the first thread that there is any mention at all of a 4:12 AM call to the police. The article that is linked states it was last updated on 8/9/12. So, I can't be certain when exactly the article was written and released. What accounts for this information being released much later than the other facts? Did this happen because facts were just slow to be released? Or, could it be, that even that early on, LE may have realized possible negligence on their part regarding weather or not the last officer on the scene made contact with anyone? Any other thoughts on this?

 

[Annie1004]

I have seen many MSM articles "updated" when more information becomes available after the first news item in many cases. Sometimes entire articles disappear from links provided. It is the never-ending quest of MSM to be current with information and beat their competition with any relevant "scoops." MOO.

This has to be one of the most confounding cases I have followed. There appears to be such a small window of time when Kortne vanished. Three LE visits to her apartment in a 12-hour period, yet nothing makes sense. If CP had not sent a text to KS, then she could have disappeared at any time between Sunday to Monday morning. The extremely tight-lipped PD is a red flag, again MOO, but not revealing the PD officer's name is huge. And where is the FBI? Oh yeah, PD hasn't requested outside help.

Why MSM hasn't jumped on this hinky case is beyond me. It has all the characteristics of "drug, sex and rock and roll," including an attractive young lady disappearing into the early morning hours. And the BF and his parents have never spoken publicly. And Kortne's parents seem resigned.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

If we are to believe what was reported, if it's the truth that the officer knocked on both doors when he/she arrived at 4:31 AM, but got no response; could it also be that LE may not release his/her name due to fear of possible retaliation against the officer for not following up properly, or for not following the proper protocol? Then again, I'm not exactly sure what the protocol is for a noise complaint? Although, I would think that any investigating officer would have to consider all of the events leading up to that 4:12 AM noise complaint to determine protocol.

 

[reedus23]

Yes, reedus23, I was purposely vague. And I'm sorry about that. But I don't feel comfortable stating a theory and don't think it would be particularly helpful. But if you look at that post and read the post previous to it, you might be able to sleuth where my suspicions lie. Or, it might be better said, if I was working the case, there is one unthinkable possibility that I would make every effort, and I mean every effort, to rule out.

Since I'm here, hello PlainJane. Nice to meet you.

Oh I'm the world's worst sleuther because I can't figure out what another sleuther is saying. Without knowing more, best I can make out is you would rule out LE having something to do with it.

 

[reedus23]

No, and I apologize for even posting this morning and I regret it already. I had already said my goodbyes previously. Let's just forget I ever posted and leave it at that. Maybe one day, if I get angry enough, I'll post what I really think.

I really don't understand what the big deal is of posting a theory to be honest. Isn't that part of what we are all doing?

 

[cluciano63]

If we are to believe what was reported, if it's the truth that the officer knocked on both doors when he/she arrived at 4:31 AM, but got no response; could it also be that LE may not release his/her name due to fear of possible retaliation against the officer for not following up properly, or for not following the proper protocol? Then again, I'm not exactly sure what the protocol is for a noise complaint? Although, I would think that any investigating officer would have to consider all of the events leading up to that 4:12 AM noise complaint to determine protocol.

I posted about this second officer a lot in the beginning, once we knew about the second call-out to 911. I am not 100% convinced he ever left his car. And if he didn't, he made a big mistake, IMO, as the seeming silence from his car or the street could indicate something very terrible had happened, as much as it could that everything had calmed down. Same with if he knocked and did not get any responses. He would, or should have, known how agitated the persons involved were less than an hour before. For all he know, they could all be dead inside an apartment. I don't think he should have been allowed to leave the premises without making contact with someone. Wonder if he called a supervisor for advice? If he was told to go ahead and leave, that, too, could account for the silence.

In any case, I have said it before, will say it again. Without new info forthcoming, I just don't see how any sense can be made of what happened to Kortne, or even any hope she will be found, except possibly by accident.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

I posted about this second officer a lot in the beginning, once we knew about the second call-out to 911. I am not 100% convinced he ever left his car. And if he didn't, he made a big mistake, IMO, as the seeming silence from his car or the street could indicate something very terrible had happened, as much as it could that everything had calmed down. Same with if he knocked and did not get any responses. He would, or should have, known how agitated the persons involved were less than an hour before. For all he know, they could all be dead inside an apartment. I don't think he should have been allowed to leave the premises without making contact with someone. Wonder if he called a supervisor for advice? If he was told to go ahead and leave, that, too, could account for the silence.

In any case, I have said it before, will say it again. Without new info forthcoming, I just don't see how any sense can be made of what happened to Kortne, or even any hope she will be found, except possibly by accident.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about how LE proceeded that night. Since I do not know much about noise complaints, I did a little research and from what I've read, considering the neighbors don't have to answer their doors, the police can't enter unless they have a warrant. If there's truth to this, then the only other option the police would have in my opinion is to call back the complaining party, I would assume? Is there anyone here who may be knowledgeable regarding this sort of thing?

 

[reedus23]

I should have caught up first. I never learn. The thought LE had something to do with it has been put forth before, so nothing to feel bad for putting that out there. I'm sure that was the first thing that was looked at right off the bat. Without more information, I'm not going to rule anything in or out, but I do feel confident that those investigating have absolutely looked into it because I can also almost guarantee you their first thought when news came in that Kortne was missing was not, "Oh no, poor girl. We have to find her." it was more along the lines of "Oh sh#*t!!! We were there that evening."

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

I really wish more information would be released regarding the remains in Elizabethtown. The last article was posted on the November the 9th, and here we are 9 days later with no new information. It's frustrating, especially when the article states that they are close to confirming gender and may be able to do so next week.

 

[aszhsh]

I am wondering if TS is the neighbor who called LE the 2nd time. TS owns one half of the duplex the other half has a tenant on the 1st floor and then KS and her bf above. If she was stomping and it disturbed a neighbor...wouldn't it be the neighbor directly below. TS does not live directly below KS. Assumig a typical duplex in that area with a firewall I just don't see stomping would bother TS. The news articles state the downstairs neighbor called the police the second time. So I would think that LE would not be knocking on TS door. And if TS did not make the last call to LE...he did not know they were called. But I do still believe that the verbal/physical confrontation from the earlier LE call was directed towards TS, so there was something upsetting her towards TS and maybe TS towards her.

 

[aszhsh]

An as far as LE goes I agree....why not release more info and why not state who responded to the last call. I also wonder why they were called to KS apt July 28, 2012and then on August 29th (a month later) they file charges on the 2 underage boys and release new information to the public via the press stating that LE was called to KS apt 3times (not 2) the night/morning she disappeared. Why would they wait so long to release that information???

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

An as far as LE goes I agree....why not release more info and why not state who responded to the last call. I also wonder why they were called to KS apt July 28, 2012and then on August 29th (a month later) they file charges on the 2 underage boys and release new information to the public via the press stating that LE was called to KS apt 3times (not 2) the night/morning she disappeared. Why would they wait so long to release that information???

I have speculated many different reasons above as to why LE may not have released who responded to that last call, the problem is that it's all just speculation. Unfortunately, we may never have an answer to that question.

As far as waiting to release the information on the underage drinkers, I have no idea why that came out at a later date but from looking at the very first thread here at websleuths, people were discussing the 4:12 AM call to police on 8/8/2012. Someone linked an article with that information in it on that date, so to my best knowledge that's when the information came out that the third call had occurred. Still something has to account for that information being held back, even if it was for a little over a week.

I'm not sure this accounts for anything but in my research I did notice that at one point in time, TS owned property on Railroad Street in Palmyra, incidentally this is the same street where the Palmyra police department is located. Who knows it may be just coincidence and nothing more, but I feel it's worth mentioning.

 

[Abstar80]

I had a quick look around on public records and couldn't locate any criminal record for TS...I just find it hard to believe that someone without a violent history (recorded atleast) would have the forward thinking to argue with someone, call LE, assualt/murder someone, hide evidence and or a body..Because even though the police may have not knocked on her or his door, he knew they would be coming back regardless and would have had to be prepared. I also think to imply that there is a LE coverup is a little extreme. In a small town like that people know people and things get out even if you don't want them to.

I strongly believe that the silence from LE and the lack of media coverage is down to the fact that they either know what has happened or know what hasn't happened.

I believe that if a LE officer was meant to attend that address and didn't, then I think foul play would have been investigated straight away to help clear that officers name. One would think that if a LE officer was involved in something like this, or was negligent in his/her duty that they would be stood down pending investigation into procedure.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

I had a quick look around on public records and couldn't locate any criminal record for TS...I just find it hard to believe that someone without a violent history (recorded atleast) would have the forward thinking to argue with someone, call LE, assualt/murder someone, hide evidence and or a body..Because even though the police may have not knocked on her or his door, he knew they would be coming back regardless and would have had to be prepared. I also think to imply that there is a LE coverup is a little extreme. In a small town like that people know people and things get out even if you don't want them to.

I strongly believe that the silence from LE and the lack of media coverage is down to the fact that they either know what has happened or know what hasn't happened.

I believe that if a LE officer was meant to attend that address and didn't, then I think foul play would have been investigated straight away to help clear that officers name. One would think that if a LE officer was involved in something like this, or was negligent in his/her duty that they would be stood down pending investigation into procedure.

This is why I asked earlier what exactly the proper protocol is for a noise complaint? From what I've read, I'm not so sure that LE did the wrong thing. If they knock and get no answer, their hands are tied specifically when considering a noise complaint. What else can they do? Pound on doors for extended periods of time, that just seems inconceivable and illogical, especially at 4 AM when things may appear to be dark and quiet. If they can't enter the residence without a warrant and nobody is answering the doors, other than calling the complaining party, who may not answer the phone, they are out of options from a legal standpoint. However, I am not so sure that the preceding calls to the police in conjunction with the noise complaint would be reason for the police to take things a step further, although legally I doubt it.

 

[Abstar80]

Well a noise complaint is exactly that.. a complaint..If there is no noise then there is no complaint. So one would think that if they arrived and there was no noise then the job could be easily written off.

I think if there was a call for an assault or suspicious persons then they would be required to get out and investigate or at the very least speak to the person that made the call to confirm all is ok.

 

[cluciano63]

And yet crime scene tape was up for months.

 

[sadnpod]

I'm just sitting here wondering what I can do to make Snoop angry enough to post their theory and not violate TOS.. any suggestions?

 

[YidArmyRach]

I'm just sitting here wondering what I can do to make Snoop angry enough to post their theory and not violate TOS.. any suggestions?

As I understood it - and this is just my interpretation of what was suggested and NOT Snoop's words - wasn't the theory that LE turned up and she answered the door and that something happened that "disappeared her". Hence, she was wearing the clothes she went out in, but no shoes. as you wouldn't put shoes on to answer a knock at the door. If LE asked you to go with them (to sit in their car and talk perhaps) you wouldn't be scared, so wouldn't make a noise. Possible to sleep through that if you were a guest in her house.

That is how I understood Snoop's post - I could be totally wrong, I usually am!

So, no one is lying...... just no answers as to what happened next.

All MOO now: maybe an arguement/struggle in the car which lead to a fatal accident, then cover up?

 

[sadnpod]

thanks YidA...

I guess it's as possible as anything else!