PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[J. J. in Phila]

I'll track it down. Certainly MM wasn't going to prosecute all those individuals.

They could have taken a plea or been tried together. A relatively high number of criminal cases are settled by plea deals. Wikipedia reports 90%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain#United_States

Some courts actually have forms where they just fill in the blanks (though I'm not sure PA does).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

At least four took plea deals: http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/335777/four_plead_guilty_to_aiding_drug_distribution/

 

[Hbgchick]

...this one fact has always bugged me, and is something that (IMO) leads to walkaway.

Both the house and the Mini Cooper were in his girlfriend's name. Why? Two people of a certain age, both with stable 20+ year careers, both presumably having good salaries and insurance, I just don't get it.

I can understand the house, one could argue it was originally hers, he moved into it, and they just never got around to putting his name on it. But - why would you buy a car and put it in your girlfriends name? There has to be a reason, but what is it? It would be very unusual if, when I buy a car, I would have any reason to put it in my girlfriend's name. I wouldn't mind doing that if she wanted me to but...it just never would occur to me to do it in the first place. I think he did it so that when he disappeared, PF wouldn't have to mess around with it being in his name and she would be sure to get it back easily. Another thought would be why didn't SHE question it? If all of the sudden my girlfriend says "Hey, I'm going to buy this car but put it in your name, ok?" I would obviously say "Why?"

Of course there may be some explanation that is totally reasonable but...it just strikes me as something very odd to do.

 

[SuperSmith]

...this one fact has always bugged me, and is something that (IMO) leads to walkaway.

Both the house and the Mini Cooper were in his girlfriend's name. Why? Two people of a certain age, both with stable 20+ year careers, both presumably having good salaries and insurance, I just don't get it.

I can understand the house, one could argue it was originally hers, he moved into it, and they just never got around to putting his name on it. But - why would you buy a car and put it in your girlfriends name? There has to be a reason, but what is it? It would be very unusual if, when I buy a car, I would have any reason to put it in my girlfriend's name. I wouldn't mind doing that if she wanted me to but...it just never would occur to me to do it in the first place. I think he did it so that when he disappeared, PF wouldn't have to mess around with it being in his name and she would be sure to get it back easily. Another thought would be why didn't SHE question it? If all of the sudden my girlfriend says "Hey, I'm going to buy this car but put it in your name, ok?" I would obviously say "Why?"

Of course there may be some explanation that is totally reasonable but...it just strikes me as something very odd to do.

RG said he put it in her name for fear of being sued. What I question more is it was supposed to be a gift for her yet he almost exclusively drove it.

 

[Hbgchick]

That's what he SAID, but it's still weird, if you ask me.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

RG said he put it in her name for fear of being sued. What I question more is it was supposed to be a gift for her yet he almost exclusively drove it.

That's what he SAID, but it's still weird, if you ask me.

And, anything he did officially would be covered under the County liability insurance policy.

He didn't have any real property, so it wasn't a slip and fall liability issue. The car would be insured.

Inheritance taxes?

This, with the assets in general, is one of the things that points to suicide or walkaway.

 

[Hbgchick]

And, anything he did officially would be covered under the County liability insurance policy.

He didn't have any real property, so it wasn't a slip and fall liability issue. The car would be insured.

Inheritance taxes?

This, with the assets in general, is one of the things that points to suicide or walkaway.

That's what leans me in the same direction, with the lack of body nudges me further toward walkaway.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That's what leans me in the same direction, with the lack of body nudges me further toward walkaway.

Yes, and it would nudge me more to walk away if LE had checked the area across the river.

There is a lot that could point to walk away. "Pointing" isn't proof.

 

[Hbgchick]

Yes, and it would nudge me more to walk away if LE had checked the area across the river.

There is a lot that could point to walk away. "Pointing" isn't proof.

Exactly our problem! We don't have proof of anything! This case is so frustrating.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Exactly our problem! We don't have proof of anything! This case is so frustrating.

Yes, that is it. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that points away from foul play, but not enough.

I think of the ending of the Legend of Sleepy Hollow. There is no definitive proof that the Headless Horseman is really Brom Bones, but most people think it was.

 

[SuperSmith]

Exactly our problem! We don't have proof of anything! This case is so frustrating.

You are exactly right. There may be circumstantial elements that may take you in one direction or another but at the end of the day we know squat.

For me the reasons a DA would be murdered, especially a hard charging one like Gricar, out weigh the reasons why he would up and leave his life and family when he was just 8 months from retirement.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You are exactly right. There may be circumstantial elements that may take you in one direction or another but at the end of the day we know squat.

For me the reasons a DA would be murdered, especially a hard charging one like Gricar, out weigh the reasons why he would up and leave his life and family when he was just 8 months from retirement.

It isn't exactly "squat." There is evidence that points toward things, or at least away from things. There are some scenarios (a particular way RFG could have been murdered, committed suicide, or walked away) that we can either eliminate or even say is impossible.

 

[SuperSmith]

I think it is possible that the arrest of Taji "Verbal" Lee and the disappearance of Ray Gricar are connected. A revenge killing by possible suppliers to Lee.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think it is possible that the arrest of Taji "Verbal" Lee and the disappearance of Ray Gricar are connected. A revenge killing by possible suppliers to Lee.

It is a virtual impossibility that RFG could have been followed from Bellefonte to, and around, Lewisburg.

Further, as has been pointed out, something like an assassination attempt would not involve hiding the body.

Also, the suppliers would not be overly worried about finding a market.

 

[SuperSmith]

It is a virtual impossibility that RFG could have been followed from Bellefonte to, and around, Lewisburg.

Further, as has been pointed out, something like an assassination attempt would not involve hiding the body.

Also, the suppliers would not be overly worried about finding a market.

Costing drug dealers Millions is motive.

It has not been proven that Gricar made it to Lewisburg. Drug Dealers however could have set him up to be taken down in Lewisburg.

Killing a DA certainly would involve hiding the body. They would not kill him in broad daylight. They would interrogate him for information and the crime scene would be somewhere else not yet discovered obviously.

It is a real possibility that cannot be overlooked.

 

[SuperSmith]

This story is proof that the Centre County District Attorney's office worked hand & hand with the Centre County Drug Task Force.

ADA Karen Kuebler typically handled most of the drug related crimes. She was under Ray Gricar and Mike Madeira respectively.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_2efc561f-91ca-5c19-86cd-9b1de2756425.html

Taji "Verbal" Lee was arrested and in jail in Centre County roughly ten weeks prior to Tom Corbett's show boat press conference at the end of March 2005.

http://www.policeone.com/news/95625...police-arrest-big-time-heroin-dealing-suspect

No wonder Gricar looks irritated in the that infamous photo. Local police and DA's office already took Lee down before Corbett took credit.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Costing drug dealers Millions is motive.

It has not been proven that Gricar made it to Lewisburg. Drug Dealers however could have set him up to be taken down in Lewisburg.

The police say RFg was in Lewisburg; there is ample evidence he was in Lewisburg. Any claim that he wasn't there will need evidence. Present counter evidence and I will consider it.

Well, as for being set up, I cannot think of any legitimate reason any DA would drive 50 miles from home, not leave any indication where and why he was going there, and meet drug dealers or any other criminal element.

I could think of a few illegitimate reasons, but in this case, there is no evidence of any.

Killing a DA certainly would involve hiding the body. They would not kill him in broad daylight. They would interrogate him for information and the crime scene would be somewhere else not yet discovered obviously.

Why would they assume he had any information? All the information any prosecutor would have has to be released on discovery. To top it off, RFG was not prosecuting the case and would not have all the information.

It is a real possibility that cannot be overlooked.

So is RFG being a Russian or CIA operative (and I have had questions about both) or the "secret life." They all have the same likelihood, almost a zero percent chance.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This story is proof that the Centre County District Attorney's office worked hand & hand with the Centre County Drug Task Force.

ADA Karen Kuebler typically handled most of the drug related crimes. She was under Ray Gricar and Mike Madeira respectively.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_2efc561f-91ca-5c19-86cd-9b1de2756425.html

Taji "Verbal" Lee was arrested and in jail in Centre County roughly ten weeks prior to Tom Corbett's show boat press conference at the end of March 2005.

http://www.policeone.com/news/95625...police-arrest-big-time-heroin-dealing-suspect

No wonder Gricar looks irritated in the that infamous photo. Local police and DA's office already took Lee down before Corbett took credit.

Neither of those defendants were involved with Taji Lee, and Corbett was not the AG (or a prosecutor) in 2002.

There has yet to be any evidence that RFG was involved in the Lee case.

 

[SuperSmith]

The police say RFg was in Lewisburg; there is ample evidence he was in Lewisburg. Any claim that he wasn't there will need evidence. Present counter evidence and I will consider it.

The police are assuming he was in Lewisburg due to the Mini, Laptop, and a few eyewitnesses but none of that stacks up to hardcore evidence like video, photos, receipts, etc would.

Well, as for being set up, I cannot think of any legitimate reason any DA would drive 50 miles from home, not leave any indication where and why he was going there, and meet drug dealers or any other criminal element.

Well, I can. He could have been told NOT to tell anyone of this meeting because of the sensitive nature or information that was to be given. He could've also been told to bring his laptop.

He WOULD NOT have met with known drug dealer but perhaps a compromised informant. His office WAS involved with drug informants.

If was in Lewisburg than he could've gotten into another car with this informant hence the bloodhound hit in the parking lot.

I could think of a few illegitimate reasons, but in this case, there is no evidence of any.

Perception of evidence is different for many people. Just because it doesn't line up with your perception or research doesn't make it any less likely.

Why would they assume he had any information? All the information any prosecutor would have has to be released on discovery. To top it off, RFG was not prosecuting the case and would not have all the information.

As DA he was the department head so he was privy to all critical information and he may have had a list of confidential informants that is not admissible in any court proceedings especially if they were run by the AG.

So is RFG being a Russian or CIA operative (and I have had questions about both) or the "secret life." They all have the same likelihood, almost a zero percent chance.

Sorry this line doesn't make sense to me.

 

[SuperSmith]

Neither of those defendants were involved with Taji Lee, and Corbett was not the AG (or a prosecutor) in 2002.

There has yet to be any evidence that RFG was involved in the Lee case.

State Attorney General Mike Fisher, Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar and local law enforcement officials yesterday established the Centre County Drug Task Force, aimed at ending drug trafficking in the region.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_9f1fa2f6-7b47-598b-96f6-78c3106e9d9c.html

STATE COLLEGE - Attorney General Tom Corbett and Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar today announced that agents from the Attorney General's Bureau of Narcotics Investigation (BNI), along with officers from the Centre County Drug Task Force and Pennsylvania state troopers, were in the process of arresting as many as nine suspected heroin and cocaine dealers operating in Centre County.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=86

If Gricar or his office had no involvement in the LEE case he would not have been part of the press conference. That is pretty clear. Probably didn't make Corbett too happy that Gricar and the Centre County Drug Task force took down Lee 10 weeks before this press conference.