PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[SuperSmith]

In regards to the "drug ring" if you're talking about the one in March 2005 with Corbett announcing then Gricar prosecuted none of them. It was a dog and pony show that Corbett set up to wow his voters. Oddly enough RGs eventual replacement, Madeira, did the actual prosecuting. Good ole' Mike was campaigning in the DA office a week after RGs disappearance. The AG office wouldn't officially touch the Gricar case and low and behold their chief prosecutor wins the DA seat. Can we trust MM put forth an honest investigation? Ironically the "internet searches", supposedly done by Gricar, were released during Madeiras term. I'd like to know why. If they still are not set on a theory then why release such a circumstantial piece of evidence that surely would sway the public to believe in the "walk a way" scenario. If they truly believed in the walking away theory then why hadn't a forensic audit been done? That could yield evidence to this theory further but they won't because they know that no money is missing, they suspect RG is not alive, and they just haven't pinned down the assailants. They want YOU to think THEY believe walkaway until they have more evidence. Think about it. The strongest evidence for voluntary departure is the internet searches released months and months after the fact. Just like the harddrive and laptop were found after the fact. Someone is/was steering the public opinion and subsequently the public interest. Who is going to give 2 hoots about a man who skipped town on his terms?

 

[JaimeSommers]

Saturday would make things even more interesting. Perhaps RG did not expect to run into anyone who knew him on a Saturday?

I lived in Centre County from January 1988 through January 2015 and can say with certainty that no longtime resident would ever expect not to run into someone they know, let alone a high-profile resident like RG. Everyone knows everyone or is related to someone who knows someone or is friends with someone who knows someone, etc. There is no anonymity in Centre County. Lots of secrets, but no anonymity.

 

[SuperSmith]

Which make the Fenton sighting more perplexing. As I said she would be the most credible eyewitness by far than anyone in Lewisburg. I wonder if her and Patty got along?

 

[Trackergd]

In regards to the "drug ring" if you're talking about the one in March 2005 with Corbett announcing then Gricar prosecuted none of them. It was a dog and pony show that Corbett set up to wow his voters. Oddly enough RGs eventual replacement, Madeira, did the actual prosecuting. Good ole' Mike was campaigning in the DA office a week after RGs disappearance. The AG office wouldn't officially touch the Gricar case and low and behold their chief prosecutor wins the DA seat. Can we trust MM put forth an honest investigation? Ironically the "internet searches", supposedly done by Gricar, were released during Madeiras term. I'd like to know why. If they still are not set on a theory then why release such a circumstantial piece of evidence that surely would sway the public to believe in the "walk a way" scenario. If they truly believed in the walking away theory then why hadn't a forensic audit been done? That could yield evidence to this theory further but they won't because they know that no money is missing, they suspect RG is not alive, and they just haven't pinned down the assailants. They want YOU to think THEY believe walkaway until they have more evidence. Think about it. The strongest evidence for voluntary departure is the internet searches released months and months after the fact. Just like the harddrive and laptop were found after the fact. Someone is/was steering the public opinion and subsequently the public interest. Who is going to give 2 hoots about a man who skipped town on his terms?

It's not illegal for an adult to go missing on their own terms. The life insurance company might be a little miffed, other than that, everything else is a family matter. Not so much if it was foul play.

From the beginning, other than the ground search, the investigation seemed to peter out rather quickly. I have seen missing child cases here in PA investigated with much more vigor and involving more agencies, including the FBI. This was a sitting DA.

On the plus side...I think we are getting closer to the truth, even without LE's assistance. It is possible that RG left, however I feel strongly it may have been more to do with being forced out under threat (physical, political or reputation) than just walking away, hence his acting out of sorts in the days prior. What was on the laptop may have been part of it.

 

[Trackergd]

Which make the Fenton sighting more perplexing. As I said she would be the most credible eyewitness by far than anyone in Lewisburg. I wonder if her and Patty got along?

Perhaps she did see RG as he provided proof to a yet unknown party in the court house parking lot that he destroyed the laptop before exiting stage right?

 

[SuperSmith]

I don't understand this post can u clarify?

 

[Trackergd]

I don't understand this post can u clarify?

Very basic scenario with many possible minor variations. RG drives to Lewisburg, makes call to PF near Center Hall. Takes computer, wipes hard drive, removes drive and dumps both in river. He has to kill time until helper arrives with second car. RG gets into second car with helper and drives back to Bellefonte and drops helper off at court house hoping not to be seen.

 

[Trackergd]

Folks, just as an update... J.J has lost his internet connection until Sunday at the earliest. He did not want folks to think something had happened to him.

 

[wijg]

Folks, just as an update... J.J has lost his internet connection until Sunday at the earliest. He did not want folks to think something had happened to him.

Well that's quite interesting. On the move again, Ray - err, umm -- JJ?

Just kidding

 

[wijg]

I re-read Fenton's account of her sighting in the parking lot of the courthouse (around 3 PM 4/15/05). Some people said it was odd that she couldn't distinguish between a "silver or gold metallic color". I actually don't find it all that odd.

My brother in law owns a car that is a color called "champagne". It's appearance literally varies between "more silver" and "more gold" depending on how light is refracting off of it. If he's "pulling out" of the parking lot as Fenton states, then he is pulling out of the shadow (3 PM, the parking lot is on the east side of the court house. It would likely be shaded at that point) and directly heading west on High St into a 3 PM sun. The color when parked in the shadow would look significantly different than when the sun is beating down directly on it.

Check it out for yourselves. Google "champagne colored car" in google images. There are also varying degrees of metallic beige that have this effect. And as I said, it is consistent with the time and setting (the parking lot at that time would be in shadow... if he pulled out onto High St, the sun would be directly on him).

I've actually thought about that for awhile, but wasn't reminded of it until I saw my brother in law the other day. My question is, why did they just completely dismiss Fenton right away? Why didn't they at least put an APB out to PA and OH state troopers to keep an eye out for a champagne or beige car?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm back on-line. One the Fenton sighting, Grine was not sure of the day and thought it could have been on 4/14, as opposed to 4/15. I think that is possible.

RFG was seen by, and briefly talked to, a former commissioner, between 5-6 PM on 4/14; he is also on the Courthouse security video at 6:09 PM and just after 9:00 PM that evening. We know he wasn't heading to Lewisburg at that point.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Which make the Fenton sighting more perplexing. As I said she would be the most credible eyewitness by far than anyone in Lewisburg. I wonder if her and Patty got along?

I'm not even sure she knew PEF very well at that point. She had graduated from Penn State law in 2004 and she didn't do her undergraduate work at PSU.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped.

I've actually thought about that for awhile, but wasn't reminded of it until I saw my brother in law the other day. My question is, why did they just completely dismiss Fenton right away? Why didn't they at least put an APB out to PA and OH state troopers to keep an eye out for a champagne or beige car?

When RFG or the car did not appear on the tape, it was discounted by the BPD.

DZ also said that it didn't fit the time line. However, I know of no witnesses that put RFG in Lewisburg between about 1:30 PM and 4:00 PM (at the earliest). McKnight's witness put RFG heading south on Route 15 (heading towards Lewisburg) between 4-5 PM. I actually think it might have been closer to 5:00 PM. However, even at 4:00 PM, there was enough time for RFG tp have returned to the Courthouse.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

Respectfully snipped.



When RFG or the car did not appear on the tape, it was discounted by the BPD.

DZ also said that it didn't fit the time line. However, I know of no witnesses that put RFG in Lewisburg between about 1:30 PM and 4:00 PM (at the earliest). McKnight's witness put RFG heading south on Route 15 (heading towards Lewisburg) between 4-5 PM. I actually think it might have been closer to 5:00 PM. However, even at 4:00 PM, there was enough time for RFG tp have returned to the Courthouse.

Hey that BPD time line will never be broken that was made so this case will never be solved because they would loose face RG was out of his house right after PF went to work or earlier hell RG was already to lewisburg by 10 am friday morning thats the big laugh they should have released alot of information quick but never did just like right now its ongoing and will be untilll the end of time hey someone hatted RG very bad and wanted him gone even if someone knew him and seen him like the experts say you did not see him so it will not be solved it just wont you all will be talking about it for years and other people will be making alot of money off of it I think all of you should write a book or more and make money off of it because you will never get the answers you are looking for even if someone is telling the truth because you will not believe it

 

[Trackergd]

I re-read Fenton's account of her sighting in the parking lot of the courthouse (around 3 PM 4/15/05). Some people said it was odd that she couldn't distinguish between a "silver or gold metallic color". I actually don't find it all that odd.

My brother in law owns a car that is a color called "champagne". It's appearance literally varies between "more silver" and "more gold" depending on how light is refracting off of it. If he's "pulling out" of the parking lot as Fenton states, then he is pulling out of the shadow (3 PM, the parking lot is on the east side of the court house. It would likely be shaded at that point) and directly heading west on High St into a 3 PM sun. The color when parked in the shadow would look significantly different than when the sun is beating down directly on it.

Check it out for yourselves. Google "champagne colored car" in google images. There are also varying degrees of metallic beige that have this effect. And as I said, it is consistent with the time and setting (the parking lot at that time would be in shadow... if he pulled out onto High St, the sun would be directly on him).

I've actually thought about that for awhile, but wasn't reminded of it until I saw my brother in law the other day. My question is, why did they just completely dismiss Fenton right away? Why didn't they at least put an APB out to PA and OH state troopers to keep an eye out for a champagne or beige car?

I did the same test this weekend with two cars on my street that are champagne and am forced to agree. Depending on the sun angle, the cars could be mistaken for silver.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hey that BPD time line will never be broken that was made so this case will never be solved because they would loose face RG was out of his house right after PF went to work or earlier hell RG was already to lewisburg by 10 am friday morning thats the big laugh they should have released alot of information quick but never did just like right now its ongoing and will be untilll the end of time hey someone hatted RG very bad and wanted him gone even if someone knew him and seen him like the experts say you did not see him so it will not be solved it just wont you all will be talking about it for years and other people will be making alot of money off of it I think all of you should write a book or more and make money off of it because you will never get the answers you are looking for even if someone is telling the truth because you will not believe it

LE does have corroborated witnesses that put RFG west of Lewisburg earlier in the day. The time line appears to be fairly solid until after RFG arrived in Lewisburg around lunchtime.

The problem is, after the first round of sightings in Lewisburg, across from the Packwood House, there is a gap of between 2.5 and 4.5 hours. It is possible that RFG got to Lewisburg between 12:15 PM and 1:00 PM, acquired another car, and drove back to Bellefonte, where he was spotted by Fenton at around 3:00 PM, and then drove back to Lewisburg and got back into the Mini by around 5:00 PM.

I will concede that DZ may be right and that there could be additional Lewisburg witnesses that have not been publicly disclosed, which would weaken or eliminate this possibility.

 

[Trackergd]

LE does have corroborated witnesses that put RFG west of Lewisburg earlier in the day. The time line appears to be fairly solid until after RFG arrived in Lewisburg around lunchtime.

The problem is, after the first round of sightings in Lewisburg, across from the Packwood House, there is a gap of between 2.5 and 4.5 hours. It is possible that RFG got to Lewisburg between 12:15 PM and 1:00 PM, acquired another car, and drove back to Bellefonte, where he was spotted by Fenton at around 3:00 PM, and then drove back to Lewisburg and got back into the Mini by around 5:00 PM.

I will concede that DZ may be right and that there could be additional Lewisburg witnesses that have not been publicly disclosed, which would weaken or eliminate this possibility.

This is getting really interesting. Still trying to work out how the ash and smell of smoke ended up in the Mini. My personal opinion is that someone (other than RG) else drove the mini back to the parking lot at some point.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This is getting really interesting. Still trying to work out how the ash and smell of smoke ended up in the Mini. My personal opinion is that someone (other than RG) else drove the mini back to the parking lot at some point.

I cannot rule out the possibility that someone other than RFG was the person to drive the Mini prior it it being found. However, note the ash was on the passenger side floor.

 

[SuperSmith]

So the only reported eyewitness of RG in or near Lewisburg on 4/15 was McKnights eye witness that apparently saw him on a highway?? Hmmm I'd take Fentons account over that any day! So what other witnesses are from Friday in Lewisburg?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So the only reported eyewitness of RG in or near Lewisburg on 4/15 was McKnights eye witness that apparently saw him on a highway?? Hmmm I'd take Fentons account over that any day! So what other witnesses are from Friday in Lewisburg?

Two witnesses, at least, put him in Lewisburg in the Mini in the parking lot across from the SoS around 5:30 PM. At least two more put him the SoS after that. The car was not seen in parking lot in the SoS prior to that.

If I was sure of Fenton and 3:00 PM on 4/15, it would be a huge boost to voluntary departure.

I only think it was 50% likely that was RFG behind the Courthouse on that date and time.