PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[SuperSmith]

Considering the sorrow RG went through and his family I find it extremely unlikely that he would mock his brothers death. Now someone close to RG or at least familiar with his brothers death is another story. One of my theories is that Roy was actually killed, Ray wouldn't let it go cuz he didn't think it was suicide so Ray was killed in the same manner.

 

[DeDee]

Regarding suicide death by drowning, how does one accomplish that exactly? I am an experienced PADI certified diver. There is nothing more important, when under water, than having a source for oxygen. My natural instinct would be to resurface for air.

Virginia Woolf dropped rocks into her pockets prior to wading into a pond. Since we have no body for Ray, we don't know how, or if, he managed to accomplish this alleged feat. No witnesses saw him jumping from the bridge. If I was depressed, weary of life, or sick in the head; I would to have my hands tied behind my back and possibly my ankles tied together as well. That would require hopping into the river. One must inhale water into their lungs for a successful suicide while remaining with the mouth submerged. It's very painful.

It [suicide by drowning] is among the least common methods of suicide, typically accounting for less than 2% of all reported suicides in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_methods

What was Roy Gricar's choice of career? I find little information on him. Obviously, he left two sons. Who would have been Roy's enemies that would, years later, pursue Ray Gricar in a similar manner? A surprise murderous death for Ray does not explain the open policy book and dictaphone placement.

In the CCTV where Ray is shown arriving in the evening, I noticed he parked his MiniCoop at the far left end of the parking zone. Wonder why it was registered in Patty's name? Did she own 2 vehicles including the red convertible MiniCooper? Was their home also in Patty's name? Did Ray have any assets other than a banking acct? Did he assist Patty with payments on the Coop and the home?

 

[Trackergd]

Wonder why it was registered in Patty's name? Did she own 2 vehicles including the red convertible MiniCooper? Was their home also in Patty's name? Did Ray have any assets other than a banking acct? Did he assist Patty with payments on the Coop and the home?

Respectfully snipped for space.

The mini cooper was in Patty's name. I do not know if there was a second car, others here would.

I paid for a full set of copies of RFG's finances and all related finances to the reward fund and legal expenses. LG successfully petitioned the court to have RFG's tax return withheld from public record, at least the side with the assets listed. And questions have been met by LG's comments to the effect that "it's no ones business".

I have a CPA going for her masters in forensic accounting looking over the paperwork for any irregularities. It may take awhile.

 

[SuperSmith]

Roy was a contractor for Wrights Patterson Air Force base if I recall. Recently fired and that us what was said to have pushed him over the edge but why was he fired? It is no secret he was bi-polar but Ray never believed Roy commited suicide and whenever he was in Ohio would check with police. Tony (one son of Roy) is quoted as saying his father feared the water and that was the one thing that stuck out to him. The thought being if your going to commit suicide your not going to choose a method that you fear most.

I thought at one time that Roy witnessed something on the base while employed that got him fired and killed. Subsequently Ray not leaving the case alone could have gave him the same fate. Let's face it if Ray was killed it most certainly was done in a professional manner. Who better than trained military personnel?

 

[SuperSmith]

Patty had a green honda that she drove. Ray gifted the Mini to her in fear of civil prosecution and losing his assets. It is this fear that I believe explains his low asset?

 

[Trackergd]

Patty had a green honda that she drove. Ray gifted the Mini to her in fear of civil prosecution and losing his assets. It is this fear that I believe explains his low asset?

Protecting himself from civil prosecution may well explain much of the low assets. Any civil litigation brought against him related to his job would have been handled by the by the county solicitor at taxpayer expense.

 

[Sutton]

Respectfully snipped for space.

The mini cooper was in Patty's name. I do not know if there was a second car, others here would.

I paid for a full set of copies of RFG's finances and all related finances to the reward fund and legal expenses. LG successfully petitioned the court to have RFG's tax return withheld from public record, at least the side with the assets listed. And questions have been met by LG's comments to the effect that "it's no ones business".

I have a CPA going for her masters in forensic accounting looking over the paperwork for any irregularities. It may take awhile.

Thank you! I hope the CPA uncovers something that you can report back to us. (If she's trying to get certified forensically, what a dream case to analyze!)
Okay, so do you know if the expenses and deductions part of RFG's tax forms is publicly available?

 

[Trackergd]

Roy was a contractor for Wrights Patterson Air Force base if I recall. Recently fired and that us what was said to have pushed him over the edge but why was he fired? It is no secret he was bi-polar but Ray never believed Roy commited suicide and whenever he was in Ohio would check with police. Tony (one son of Roy) is quoted as saying his father feared the water and that was the one thing that stuck out to him. The thought being if your going to commit suicide your not going to choose a method that you fear most.

I thought at one time that Roy witnessed something on the base while employed that got him fired and killed. Subsequently Ray not leaving the case alone could have gave him the same fate. Let's face it if Ray was killed it most certainly was done in a professional manner. Who better than trained military personnel?

I will say from my past military knowledge, Wright Patterson has as much or more "classified research"/black ops going on as Edwards (Area 51). Many of the items of rampant media and fringe science rumor were taken to Wright Patterson for analysis, including the German "Bell" (Kecksburg object). Both Edwards and Wright Patterson contain some of our Governments most classified projects and artifacts.

Not sure who else remembers the movie "A Beautiful Mind" about John Nash. I am not sure if Roy witnessed something he should not have, or if it is delusion such as John Nash suffered.

 

[DeDee]

From a cached page: The Philadelphia Daily News:

MURDER, SUICIDE OR JUST A RUNAWAY? (Ray Gricar; missing PA DA)
Philadelphia Daily News ^ | 5/13/2005 | WILLIAM BUNCH

Posted on ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2005‎ ‎8‎:‎59‎:‎34‎ ‎AM by Born Conservative

BELLEFONTE, Pa. - For the last couple of Friday afternoons at the dark and historic creekside eatery called Gamble Mill Restaurant, bartenders have kept glancing over at Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar's usual spot at the bar.

"They look over at the little spot he used to sit in," with his girlfriend, Patty Fornicola, playing their weekly game of Trivial Pursuit as he sipped a Grey Goose martini, said the restaurant manager, Andi Heidt-Nixdorf. "When every Friday comes along, they think they're going to see him."

But no one in this Victorian-tinged, mountainside county seat is known to have seen the 59-year-old Gricar - a button-down, lifelong prosecutor looking to retire at year's end - in the last 28 days.

The 20-year veteran D.A. called out of work on that Friday, April 15, drove to the riverside antique-selling town of Lewisburg, parked his red-and-white Mini Cooper - and then vanished.

SNIP

Or were some members of the big-city drug ring that Gricar had helped bust just two weeks earlier hell-bent on revenge?

And what of the fresh flowers that were found in an orange-juice container near the riverbank where his car was found - a detail so strange that it reminds some locals of the 1967 suicide-mystery "Ode to Billy Joe."

SNIP

Crime writer Bill Keisling, who recently published a book on the apparent murder in Pennsylvania of a federal prosecutor, Jonathan Luna, has been writing articles on a Web site called yardbird.com suggesting a link between the still-unsolved Luna case and the Gricar disappearance.

Friday evenings were spent sipping martini's and playing Trivial Pursuit. Wonder why Patty waited until 11:30 to phone 911.

The information on Roy's employment was helpful. One article stated he "retired"; not that Roy was "fired".

 

[SuperSmith]

Retired at 50? That may be what they wanted the public to believe.

 

[SeekingJana]

Retired at 50? That may be what they wanted the public to believe.

My father, who was a high- ranking state level civil engineer, retired at the age of 50, when he had 30 years' service and could retire with full benefits. It was totally his choice.
He lived a very long, happy and full life after his retirement, dying from natural causes at the age of 84.

IF Roy had not died, whether from suicide or another cause, would you still have the same opinion of the man's statement of retirement, or " retirement"?

 

[SuperSmith]

Probably, but "fired" was what I read anyway... Moot

 

[SuperSmith]

It's no secret that LE inquired about Rays computers almost immediately. This is when it was found that the laptop was to be missing from his home. Are we to believe it took LE 5 years to do a simple google history search on his home computer to find the search terms published in 2009? Sorry I'm not buying it.

 

[SeekingJana]

Probably, but "fired" was what I read anyway... Moot

Yes, it does say " fired". I haven't read closely enough to know why " retired" is in the picture. So sorry to bother you- now twice.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just a reminder that we don't discuss or enquire regarding the whereabouts of other WSers.

:tyou:

 

[DeDee]

It's no secret that LE inquired about Rays computers almost immediately. This is when it was found that the laptop was to be missing from his home. Are we to believe it took LE 5 years to do a simple google history search on his home computer to find the search terms published in 2009? Sorry I'm not buying it.

I believe LE had the computer search information; however, did not announce it publically until 2009.

But in 2009, investigators announced what they had found on the home computer at Ray Gricar's house. In the weeks before he vanished, someone had used that computer to research ways of destroying a computer hard drive.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/16080125

The prosecutor’s brother, Roy Gricar, had just retired from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, when he disappeared in May 1996.

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/missing-da-is-it-foul-play-or-did-he-commit-suicide/

Roy J. Gricar, had just retired from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, when he disappeared.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1402467/posts ~ From the Philadelphia Daily News | 5/13/2005 | WILLIAM BUNCH article

I [former classmate of Roy's, Tom Ashley] called Roy’s wife to express my condolences. I wondered aloud about my conversation with him a few months earlier. “Tom, there was no truth to that,” she said. “Roy was bi-polar and hugely depressed. He lost his job and felt he couldn’t go on living. Our family wants peace now.”

http://irpvoicesonline.com/voices/will-we-ever-know/ : A publication of The New School Institute For Retired Professionals

 

[SuperSmith]

No bother at all SJ. I wish media reporting could be correctly consistent. Makes it hard for to determine fact from fiction.

 

[SuperSmith]

I honestly feel once the laptop and hard drive were found that it would've been a more appropriate time to disclose that information had they had it that early. If Ray really conducted those searches he would've found that water was not nearly the most effective manner to destroy it. What of the Windows Washer software (or box) found in the home. Perhaps he had already erased the drive. Overkill to throw it in the river if he did.??

 

[J. J. in Phila]

My apologies for my absence, but my phone lines were down until today.

As for the flowers, they dumped by the railroad bridge. I am not sure if RFG's favorite color was yellow, or even if he had one. Tony Gricar once mentioned that it looked a place where people tossed flowers.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I believe LE had the computer search information; however, did not announce it publically until 2009.



The prosecutor’s brother, Roy Gricar, had just retired from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, when he disappeared in May 1996.

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/missing-da-is-it-foul-play-or-did-he-commit-suicide/

Roy J. Gricar, had just retired from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, when he disappeared.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1402467/posts ~ From the Philadelphia Daily News | 5/13/2005 | WILLIAM BUNCH article

I [former classmate of Roy's, Tom Ashley] called Roy’s wife to express my condolences. I wondered aloud about my conversation with him a few months earlier. “Tom, there was no truth to that,” she said. “Roy was bi-polar and hugely depressed. He lost his job and felt he couldn’t go on living. Our family wants peace now.”

http://irpvoicesonline.com/voices/will-we-ever-know/ : A publication of The New School Institute For Retired Professionals

It might have been a "forced retirement?" I've seen a couple in government work.