PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[J. J. in Phila]

Just curious, but this is a question that just occurred to me. Why drive to Lewisburg to commit suicide? From Bellefonte to Centre Hall to Lewisburg there are so many more places that would be far more private- less chance for someone to attempt to stop you.

Wasn't Ray at Raystown Lake in the week before he disappeared? Again, the drive from Bellefonte to there can get fairly rural, as well as the lake not being near as populated as the Lewisburg area.

What am I missing?

He was at Raystown the day before he disappeared. It is more rural, but he actually was seen by someone who recognized him.

Lewisburg is out of the Central PA media market, so it would be unlikely anyone would recognize him. The could have played into it.

 

[SuperSmith]

Gricars reported low assets has led to speculation that he was hiding money overseas preparing for his great escape..,,I am not a subscriber of that thought.

Several reasons exist to explain an appearance of low money.

1. Spent frivolously on his daughter.

2. Hid money from his ex wife Emma.

3. Gifted in fear of civil prosecution.

4. Helped his late brothers widow finally.

5. Anomously donated money to his favorite charity.

6. Spent a good bit on antiques.

All could be combined

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well first, it also could point to suicide, if the low assets were due to estate planning. Personally, my odds on suicide went up slightly more than they did on voluntary departure.

Snipped for length.

Several reasons exist to explain an appearance of low money.

1. Spent frivolously on his daughter.

Possible, but that would also point to not planning for retirement. If that is where all the assets went, it would point to suicide.

2. Hid money from his ex wife Emma.

That actually could point to voluntary departure. If it was sufficient enough funds, he could have disappeared to gain access to them.

3. Gifted in fear of civil prosecution.

He was covered under the county's liability insurance policy and with no property, there would be basically nothing he could be successfully sued for. [Note that JKA raised that point.]

4. Helped his late brothers widow finally.

5. Anomously donated money to his favorite charity.

Either, or both, could point to suicide, as the same as #1.

6. Spent a good bit on antiques.

The value of the antiques would be included in the estate. While it might have reduced his cash, it would still be an estate asset.

There are also tax implications of any gifting.

 

[SuperSmith]

We do not know if RG contributed to his Pension. I would think he did and could've lived comfortably off of that. He also asked PF to take an early retirement to travel with him so I don't think he would do that if he wasn't financially stable.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We do not know if RG contributed to his Pension. I would think he did and could've lived comfortably off of that. He also asked PF to take an early retirement to travel with him so I don't think he would do that if he wasn't financially stable.

Well, she had not left the office. There is a difference between a good retirement and just living off of a pension.

 

[DeDee]

Gricars reported low assets has led to speculation that he was hiding money overseas preparing for his great escape..,,I am not a subscriber of that thought.

Several reasons exist to explain an appearance of low money.

1. Spent frivolously on his daughter.

2. Hid money from his ex wife Emma.

3. Gifted in fear of civil prosecution.

4. Helped his late brothers widow finally.

5. Anomously donated money to his favorite charity.

6. Spent a good bit on antiques.

All could be combined

Nice list. Thanks. What does it mean that Ray "helped his late brothers widow finally"?

I just realized that Ray disappeared on a Friday and that Fridays are the days when he sat in the pub playing Trivial Pursuit with Patty.


"When he went missing that Friday morning on April 15, 2005, he left behind a live-in girlfriend, a beautiful and successful daughter and a bank account that was supposed to fund a fast-approaching retirement."

Do you appreciate the way the writer of the CNN article couched the words "supposed to"?

[video=cnn;crime/2011/11/18/sot-ray-gricar-disappearance.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/15/us/ray-gricar-missing-prosecutor/index.html[/video]


I am suspicious of the way the court action that was taking place with Gricar MIA the very evening before Gricar goes missing. IIRC, the defense lawyers were in negotiations with the prosecutor's office. Ray stepped away. The deal with the drug dealer case was made without Gricar's approval.

I will watch the video again clarity, J. J.


JMHO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The DA's Office was not prosecuting the case. It was the AG's Office and it did not end in a plea agreement.

 

[SuperSmith]

Sorry I meant to say "help Roy's widow financially"

 

[wijg]

What's everyone's sentiment on the laptop and hard drive? It's my opinion they were planted after the fact a few weeks/months after Gricar's disappearance. Just wondering what everyone else thinks.

 

[Ozoner]

What's everyone's sentiment on the laptop and hard drive? It's my opinion they were planted after the fact a few weeks/months after Gricar's disappearance. Just wondering what everyone else thinks.

It's tough to say, but I think it's more likely they were disposed of at the time of his disappearance, probably by him. He or someone else in his home had done internet searches on how to destroy a hard drive. He may have also opened a book at his office to a spot that told how to go about replacing him.

One thing I really want to know is whether he attempted to contact his daughter on the day he disappeared. We know that he contacted his girlfriend, possibly as a way of saying goodbye. It seems like he would have wanted to hear his daughter's voice one last time if he intended to off himself. Of course, maybe he had a recorded message from her saved.

Many things point to a voluntary departure, either through death or through a fresh start. The more I read, the more I think he killed himself by some means other than drowning. He may have sought out a coal mine ventilation shaft to slash his wrists in so that his body wouldn't be found.

Perhaps he wanted to create a mystery in the hopes that his brother's death would get closer scrutiny. Parking his car near the river may have been a ruse so that people wouldn't look too carefully elsewhere for his body.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What's everyone's sentiment on the laptop and hard drive? It's my opinion they were planted after the fact a few weeks/months after Gricar's disappearance. Just wondering what everyone else thinks.

My thoughts are that RFG tossed it, but that it may not be related to his disappearance.

 

[SuperSmith]

My thoughts are that the laptop and hard drive were planted sometime after the disappearance and not by Gricar and I have several reasons why I believe this.

 

[howardstern]

My thoughts are that the laptop and hard drive were planted sometime after the disappearance and not by Gricar and I have several reasons why I believe this.

Such as? There has been no evidence that I'm aware that would support that theory, though I would be the last one to rule anything out at this point. Genuinely curious how you came to that conclusion, or really any with the limited info we have.

Are you also implying law enforcement planted the laptop, hard drive and the Google searches? Why? Who, exactly? When (specifically, when would they have planted those Google searches)?

 

[wijg]

Such as? There has been no evidence that I'm aware that would support that theory, though I would be the last one to rule anything out at this point. Genuinely curious how you came to that conclusion, or really any with the limited info we have.

Are you also implying law enforcement planted the laptop, hard drive and the Google searches? Why? Who, exactly? When (specifically, when would they have planted those Google searches)?

The laptop being found months afterwards - and the hard drive being found even later - make it more likely that they were tossed after the fact. The water was pretty clear when the search was happening, and the river was combed pretty thoroughly. It is unlikely they would not have been found during the initial search (possible, but unlikely).

And to my knowledge, SuperSmith never suggested LE planted them. Why would you automatically assume that's what he was insinuating?

And for the record, I believe it to be about 80% likely that they were tossed after the fact. And I know I'm not alone in that thinking. There are very reasonable people on here that believe the same thing.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The laptop being found months afterwards - and the hard drive being found even later - make it more likely that they were tossed after the fact. The water was pretty clear when the search was happening, and the river was combed pretty thoroughly. It is unlikely they would not have been found during the initial search (possible, but unlikely).

And to my knowledge, SuperSmith never suggested LE planted them. Why would you automatically assume that's what he was insinuating?

And for the record, I believe it to be about 80% likely that they were tossed after the fact. And I know I'm not alone in that thinking. There are very reasonable people on here that believe the same thing.

A couple of things. One the days of the initial searches, the water in that area was a both higher and a bit more murky. They were not looking for a laptop and certainly not a hard drive; they were looking primarily for a body. The drive, in particular was only about the size of two packs of cigarettes and it was not tossed from the bridge.

Also logically, if RFG, prior to suicide, or a planter/killer, had tossed either from the bridge, it would have been more likely to be from the south side of the bridge, where there is a walkway, not the north side. They ended up on the north side (which is also upstream). Whomever tossed them either wanted them not to fit in with suicide or just wanted them not to be easily found.

 

[Trackergd]

He was at Raystown the day before he disappeared. It is more rural, but he actually was seen by someone who recognized him.

Lewisburg is out of the Central PA media market, so it would be unlikely anyone would recognize him. The could have played into it.

Curious thought... If RFG was intending to commit suicide by drowning, why would he care who saw him prior to the act? More likely he was either planning to ditch the laptop or checking the location to see if it would be suitable for ditching the laptop.

The problem with dumping the laptop in a lake is that you would need a boat to get out to the deep spots to lessen the chances of recovery. Throwing it from the shore would still put it in shallow water and by chance be seen by fishermen in a boat or hooked on a fishing line.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Curious thought... If RFG was intending to commit suicide by drowning, why would he care who saw him prior to the act? More likely he was either planning to ditch the laptop or checking the location to see if it would be suitable for ditching the laptop.

The problem with dumping the laptop in a lake is that you would need a boat to get out to the deep spots to lessen the chances of recovery. Throwing it from the shore would still put it in shallow water and by chance be seen by fishermen in a boat or hooked on a fishing line.

He might not have wanted anyone to know where he dumped the laptop, for recovery purposes. He was a marina, so the water should have a steep drop. It might have been clearer, but no one would be looking for it there, if he had not been spotted.

I should be clear on one point, I can make a very weak argument that he didn't toss the laptop, only the drive (and have on earlier threads).

 

[SuperSmith]

Who ever said that LE was only looking for a body??? It was well know that the laptop was missing and a point of interest. Since it was not in the found Mini it was as you could say "at large". It also doesn't speak to the hard drive search after the laptop was found.

 

[thesiren]

I periodically read articles about Gricar on Deadspin after the Penn State news broke, then later I saw his Disappeared on Netflix.

Netflix recently added FBI Files (or something to that effect), a true crime docu series from the '90s and there is an episode where Gricar is interviewed for a case. He would later be part of one those shows himself. It made me so sad to see him on FBI Files.

 

[Trackergd]

I should be clear on one point, I can make a very weak argument that he didn't toss the laptop, only the drive (and have on earlier threads).

Respectfully Snipped.

So if RFG tossed the hard drive, who tossed the laptop? Someone else who knew what was on it and was not aware that RFG had tossed the hard drive and was worried about the data the computer contained?

That would suggest that A)The computer contained data that involved more individuals than only RFG, B)There is one or more individuals involved in RFG going missing and C)Suicide could go lower on the list.