PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[J. J. in Phila]

It could go beyond just Sandusky.

In theory. We don't have any other scandal at PSU, much less one involving RFG.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

In theory. We don't have any other scandal at PSU, much less one involving RFG.

That is public knowledge at least.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That is public knowledge at least.

I'll take it a step further, that I know about. I do not know of anything that RFG did involving PSU that would have been illegal.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

I'll take it a step further, that I know about. I do not know of anything that RFG did involving PSU that would have been illegal.

I should clarify I'm not implying anything illegal. Just things going on there that he might have been aware of that could have put him in a difficult position.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I should clarify I'm not implying anything illegal. Just things going on there that he might have been aware of that could have put him in a difficult position.

A "difficult position" is not necessarily illegal or unethical.

DA's, in general, have discretion on when to prosecute. In PA, if an aggrieved party disagrees, they can go to state AG. I think the courts can order a prosecution.
It is rare, but the Amtrak wreck in Philadelphia was an example. The last section on Wikipedia refers to this. 2015 Philadelphia train derailment - Wikipedia

 

[Black Diamond]

I believe they were, because PEF was questioned formally by the PSP and informally by McKnight and Buehner. Buehner described her as "guileless."

Keep in mind that PEF said, publicly, that she was at the gym, anyone who was there on Friday afternoon and did not see her would likely have come forward. Bellefonte is not a big town. That is why you have some witnesses that saw him on 4/15/05 heading towards Lewisburg.

The guilelessness could have been an act. Seems like Patty got away without too much pressure from LE apparently because they thought she wasn’t smart enough or they thought her too innocent and weak to have involvement in an act of foul play. Likely she met many criminals over the years in her line of work. Not inconceivable to me that she orchestrated making Ray disappear with the help of a deplorable while she sat at work with a rock solid alibi. Plenty of smart devious women in the world that can fool anyone with an elaborate act. Just because she doesn’t look like a villain off a Lifetime movie doesn’t mean she was incapable of devious actions.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The guilelessness could have been an act. Seems like Patty got away without too much pressure from LE apparently because they thought she wasn’t smart enough or they thought her too innocent and weak to have involvement in an act of foul play. Likely she met many criminals over the years in her line of work. Not inconceivable to me that she orchestrated making Ray disappear with the help of a deplorable while she sat at work with a rock solid alibi. Plenty of smart devious women in the world that can fool anyone with an elaborate act. Just because she doesn’t look like a villain off a Lifetime movie doesn’t mean she was incapable of devious actions.

PEF was questioned by the PSP and several days later sat down to with two veteran prosecutors for four hours. She didn't even have a lawyer with her. Between the Buehner, McKnight, the PSP and a polygraph, there is no way that she could cover something like that up. "Guileless" does not equal "weak. It means "innocent, without deception."

 

[Black Diamond]

PEF was questioned by the PSP

I thought Bellefonte Police Dept. handled the initial investigation?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I thought Bellefonte Police Dept. handled the initial investigation?

Initially, it was a joint investigation, IIRC. PEF was interviewed in Milton. Sloan was also interviewed by a PSP profiler.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

Anyone have a status update on Knight's podcast? Seems to have hit another black hole.

 

[Black Diamond]

Anyone have a status update on Knight's podcast? Seems to have hit another black hole.

I’ve been wondering the same. It was 5 months between the last 2 episodes. What’s your take on the death threat she mentioned on the last one? She didn’t say if it was involved with her Ray Gricar stuff. Felt like she eluded to it but didn’t say so. If the death threat was because of her investigation then it becomes another discussion point in this whole thing.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

I’ve been wondering the same. It was 5 months between the last 2 episodes. What’s your take on the death threat she mentioned on the last one? She didn’t say if it was involved with her Ray Gricar stuff. Felt like she eluded to it but didn’t say so. If the death threat was because of her investigation then it becomes another discussion point in this whole thing.

I suspect some melodrama at play. Her theory seems to be Ray was murdered because of Sandusky. I find this *highly* unlikely. If there is a PSU connection to Ray's disappearance then it is more likely he voluntarily disappeared.

 

[SeekingJana]

I do not, in any aspect, intend to speak ill of Ms. Knight and her podcast, but i am very skeptical of her assertion that she has had access to all of Ray Gricar's case file. Also, she has asserted some ' facts" without evidence to back up the statements. asking listeners to blindly trust her word. Well, no, if you have the evidence, you show the evidence or you keep quiet until you can get a screen shot or audio recording, etc.
Since LE does not know what happened to Ray, how can Rebecca Knight hold out tidbits saying " Nah, Nah, i know all there is to know and I will drip feed it on my podcast until you reach the conclusion I WANT you to have at some point in the future'''. That statement, perhaps slightly paraphrased, is pure emotional manipulation. If you know what happened, say it or go away in silence. Don't taut people for possible personal monetary gain. geez.

Because she specifically says the case files, which are tied to his active missing person case, were put into her hands in the recent past, I would not be surprised if the PA AG sent her a cease and desist order, or has her '"friend" under investigation. You may know things, but you cannot say you basically had an illegal 48-72 hours to copy the case file and hand it back to your " friend". This is a subversion of justice and this is what Ms. Knight has written and said she did.

She is not in PA Law Enforcement, thus had no legal right to an open investigation case file or any part of the files. She says she read it all and we " are going to be shocked". That is journalistic hogwash, as there is literally nothing most of us haven't considered or would actually be shocked about after this long a time.

Secondly, over the years we have been entertained and sometimes dismayed by many websites, crime blogs, and sites maintained by at least one former colleague of Ray's. We've just about seen it all and none of it was even more than a tiny bit superficially true except for J.J.'s blog which the newspaper stopped printing, more's the pity.

Justice is justice, wherever it takes its course.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hi Jana. I am involved in a "project," so I will be limited until 5/30.

I can say, for a fact that RK does have a copy of the case file. I wrote to LE and gave them a password they could use to contact me; they did. She knew the password. There is no doubt she has the information.

 

[Richard]

Ray Gricar, age 59,
Missing since 15 April 2005

 

[Black Diamond]

 

[DeeperSecrets]

Because she specifically says the case files, which are tied to his active missing person case, were put into her hands in the recent past, I would not be surprised if the PA AG sent her a cease and desist order, or has her '"friend" under investigation. You may know things, but you cannot say you basically had an illegal 48-72 hours to copy the case file and hand it back to your " friend". This is a subversion of justice and this is what Ms. Knight has written and said she did.

This is an interesting speculation. Sara Ganim introduced a podcast in November about an alleged victim of Sandusky's. There were, however, discrepancies in testimony (this individual claimed in the past he had not been abused) and Sandusky's lawyer hit the podcast with a cease and desist order and it has indeed not produced another episode since the first.

However, I'd think if that was the case with Ms. Knight she would have been forced to take down her website containing the file material.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Since the Gricar case does not involve a criminal prosecution, an actual court order would be difficult to obtain. While leaked, they are governmental documents.

Further, it is a bit late for anyone in Centre County to do anything about them.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

hold out tidbits saying " Nah, Nah, i know all there is to know and I will drip feed it on my podcast until you reach the conclusion I WANT you to have at some point in the future'''. That statement, perhaps slightly paraphrased, is pure emotional manipulation. If you know what happened, say it or go away in silence. Don't taut people for possible personal monetary gain. geez.

Isn't that pretty much the standard plot for every crime show and mini-series on television? Also, this applies to many of the other podcasts too, which is why I prefer to read about such things here in real time.

REgarding the case file, is this still an active open investigation, given that RG was declared dead? It's classified as a cold case at Websleuths too, although I realize that has no legal significance.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

New Final Argument podcast: Final Argument: The Disappearance of Ray Gricar, District Attorney

Two glaring errors up front.

1. A governor cannot call a grand jury.
2. The PA governor serves as a non-voting member of the PSU Board.