Parents of third graders outraged at diversity tape

[Mabel]

Kitty, I have a question. Do your kids go to public school? (Or did they?) I'm assuming you have at least one child.

I have 2 children both in public schools one is 8 and the other is 15- I would allow my 15 year old to 'go to johnny's house' because she is now mature enough to understand and form her own opinions. I would not allow my 8 year old because he is not mature or old enough to understand any of this. I never said that the gay couple is going to jump on each other at all. Of course I would not expect a heterosexual couple to do that in front of a child either. A troll vibe you may get but as you are entitled your opinion and raise your children the way you see fit I am as well.

The bolded part is what I don't get. What is it that a child needs to be mature enough to understand, and why does he need to form an opinion? Why can't it be just a fact of life that he's exposed to from day one?

 

[Masterj]

As I've said here before, sex is like religion, everyone finds his own orientation reasonable, and everyone else's disgusting or crazy.

I would add politics to that list too. I will never understand why we need to stick labels on each other when it only divides us further. Too think everyone fits neatly into one little category is crazy!

 

[Nova]

The funny thing is, every time someone has made a revelation to me about their sexual preference, I already knew, and I felt so terrible that they even worried about my reaction! My one friend used to joke that I "couldn't be a Republican" (we always argued politics). (Kinda like kitty saying an atheist can't be a Republican). HUH?

My ex had a little trouble dealing with his brother coming out and how it would affect our kids and I just knew everything would be fine and it has been. He's the one I miss after the divorce (my bil), in fact.

I guess once you experience a good friend or family member being gay, all the stereotypes and worries go out the window.

Now if people would just stop assuming that I'm an anti-Gay intolerant redneck bigot because I am a Republican.

Oh well, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Eve

My beloved son-in-law is a staunch Republican. He's also a great husband and devoted father. (And no distinction is made in his house between the biological grandparents and the step-grands, gay or straight.)

So I do know better than to stereotype Republicans as homophobes. But it's hard to resist when your party makes us the centerpiece of its domestic program...

(Maybe you should call the BIL. He might be glad to hear from you.)

 

[Jessiebell]

As I've said here before, sex is like religion, everyone finds his own orientation reasonable, and everyone else's disgusting or crazy.

So true!

I used to refrain from these debates until I figured out how much I gained from having these conversations with a very open mind - because if you do - you really get a much better grasp on what your own views on these things by understanding the opposition better. And I don't mean in a "Know thy enemy" sort of way - I mean that you become very aware of what are actually your TRUE opinions and what you may have "taken-on" accidently because the majority of other people in your "category" believe.

Do you agree? It's something I've only come to realize in relatively recent years - at least to the extent that I do now.

 

[Kitty5001]

To try to respond to all of you:

We are not to judge each other only God can do that. We on the other hand do not have to agree with each other either. There is a fine line between judging and accepting a choice. No one seems to separate the two.

children automatically form opinions about things they are exposed to so it is inevitable that an opinion would be formed by seeing something that is not status quo or out of the norm. Homosexuality does fall into that catagory. Young children do not need to be exposed to anykind of sexuality in any form. They are not mentally or emotionally ready for that.

In no way is my child being mean or unaccepting of Johnny just because I don't expose my son to his parents. I am not being unaccepting of Johnny because I would invite him to my home to play with my son.

Just because God said it was wrong is enough for me to form that opinion not that I don't have other reasons but his word alone is enough for me. I can take liberties as not going to church on a regular basis and still be christian -I went to private catholic school for many years and do read scripture and books from time to time -just because I don't enter a building once a week does not mean that I don't still believe in the word of God.

My notions just because they are different are not hateful. I am not saying to tease of hate Johnny or call him names just because I don't allow my son to view an alternate lifestyle at such a young age. I would not allow him to view or watch violent tv shows nor would I allow him to view programs on abortion or any other heated topic due to his age or maturity level. these are all complex issues that only mature individuals should be subject to.

 

[BhamMama]

great post. I agree, moral issues should be done at home. I also believe that children can be taught something is wrong without being taught to hate. That is where the media likes to scew things. Me teaching my children to see homosexuality as a sin, does not mean I am teaching them to hate all homosexuals or bully or degrade them. I teach them alcohol abuse and stealing is wrong and is a sin as well, but they certaintly don't make fun of their uncle who is an alcoholic....they pray for him and treat him as any other human being.
I think parents are objecting because the video presents same sex marriages as something good and acceptable, many of us do not believe that. I would not want the school teaching my children their version of morality on any subject period.

I'm not talking morals. I think you can be a sinner and a lackluster kinda dude/gal and still have tolerance...I could care less if anyone has morals, theirs are prolly not mine anyway.

I don't teach my kids about sin....I teach my kids about tolerance...with tolerance comes the need to be right so no biggie on the sin. And if they do sin...they have a chance to make it right cause I'm preaching the word to them of a Being that is the ultimate in tolerance.

I don't want to teach my kids that actions of those around them are looked down on by some big person in the sky. I want them to know that G-d loves them...all of them, period. No matter what. I also don't teach my kids to pray for those who 'sin'.

I teach them to pray for every person because they love them and for them to have physical health, a general well being and to be happy, or strength when they are having a hard time, not because they are afraid the other persons actions will make them burn in hell...of which we don't believe.

I can't help what others teach their children, but I certainly can be a beacon by teaching my children that any family, as long as it contains love and respect, is to be respected and looked upon as what it is...normal.

They are left to believe it is right or wrong, for them, when they are of an age to have a decent idea of who they are and what they want. Not my place to devalue G-d's creation just because of my own notions. Parenting is guidance, not control.

And for the last time...I'm not against this being shown in schools because of parents, on either side, or teachers who have no choice. I'm against this because of the step government has taken into eroding parental rights. My kids aren't in public schools thank goodness.

And before I get 'labeled' I'll out myself. I'm a Libertarian. You know, do what you want, as long as what you want doesn't interfere with my right to do what I want, and I'll do the same for you.

 

[Nova]

I would add politics to that list too. I will never understand why we need to stick labels on each other when it only divides us further. Too think everyone fits neatly into one little category is crazy!

Good point! I shall add politics when I quote myself in the future (but with a footnote citing you, of course). Thanks. I always enjoy your posts so much.

 

[Jessiebell]

In no way is my child being mean or unaccepting of Johnny just because I don't expose my son to his parents. I am not being unaccepting of Johnny because I would invite him to my home to play with my son.

Sorry Kitty I know that must have been flustering to have us all asking questions.

I never implied that your child would be being mean - on the contrary - I stated that they and their friendship are a different entity from the adult matters. Just to make sure you understood that.

I have to ask though - I posed the question as something I was curious if you would be willing to ponder - did you? Don't you think the kids would know there was something amiss - or worse - misinterpret your decisions as something they did wrong? Because kids enevitably want to switch things up and go to the other kids house...you know what I mean?

 

[Nova]

So true!

I used to refrain from these debates until I figured out how much I gained from having these conversations with a very open mind - because if you do - you really get a much better grasp on what your own views on these things by understanding the opposition better. And I don't mean in a "Know thy enemy" sort of way - I mean that you become very aware of what are actually your TRUE opinions and what you may have "taken-on" accidently because the majority of other people in your "category" believe.

Do you agree? It's something I've only come to realize in relatively recent years - at least to the extent that I do now.

I could not agree more! And that's why it's so important that we be exposed to those with different backgrounds and views: so that we distinguish between reasoned positions and mere inherited biases.

(Frankly, I think that's what Kitty is afraid of: it may be hard for her kids to hold on to prejudices if they are exposed to diversity. I can't believe she thinks it will turn the kids gay; everyone knows better by now.!)

 

[narlacat]

To try to respond to all of you:

We are not to judge each other only God can do that. We on the other hand do not have to agree with each other either. There is a fine line between judging and accepting a choice. No one seems to separate the two.

children automatically form opinions about things they are exposed to so it is inevitable that an opinion would be formed by seeing something that is not status quo or out of the norm. Homosexuality does fall into that catagory. Young children do not need to be exposed to anykind of sexuality in any form. They are not mentally or emotionally ready for that.

In no way is my child being mean or unaccepting of Johnny just because I don't expose my son to his parents. I am not being unaccepting of Johnny because I would invite him to my home to play with my son.

Just because God said it was wrong is enough for me to form that opinion not that I don't have other reasons but his word alone is enough for me. I can take liberties as not going to church on a regular basis and still be christian -I went to private catholic school for many years and do read scripture and books from time to time -just because I don't enter a building once a week does not mean that I don't still believe in the word of God.

My notions just because they are different are not hateful. I am not saying to tease of hate Johnny or call him names just because I don't allow my son to view an alternate lifestyle at such a young age. I would not allow him to view or watch violent tv shows nor would I allow him to view programs on abortion or any other heated topic due to his age or maturity level. these are all complex issues that only mature individuals should be subject to.

Surprise surprise.

 

[Jessiebell]

I could not agree more! And that's why it's so important that we be exposed to those with different backgrounds and views: so that we distinguish between reasoned positions and mere inherited biases.

Absolutely!

(Frankly, I think that's what Kitty is afraid of: it may be hard for her kids to hold on to prejudices if they are exposed to diversity. I can't believe she thinks it will turn the kids gay; everyone knows better by now.!)

Oh yeah! I don't even think I ever considered the latter. I sure hope so anyway - that contagious gayness idea seems to be fading to black.

 

[Nova]

children automatically form opinions about things they are exposed to so it is inevitable that an opinion would be formed by seeing something that is not status quo or out of the norm. Homosexuality does fall into that catagory. Young children do not need to be exposed to anykind of sexuality in any form. They are not mentally or emotionally ready for that.

Although you refuse to acknowledge it, it is YOU who insert "sex" into the family dynamic of a household with same-sex parents. It doesn't occur to children unless you announce it.

Yes, I know this for a fact and from personal experience. I have children, nieces, nephews and now grandchildren who grew up understanding that my partner and I love each other and make a home, without ever questioning what we do in private (at least until they were old enough to wonder about such things naturally). No more than they wondered what heterosexual parents were doing behind closed doors.

Your comparisons of a gay domestic couple to and violence is your comparison and yours alone. And it says far more about your thinking than it does about my life.

Just because God said it was wrong is enough for me to form that opinion not that I don't have other reasons but his word alone is enough for me.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, except God supposedly said a lot of things were wrong, including the wearing of blended cloth and the trimming of beards before temple services, but I doubt you have a problem with those.

Your selective invocation of God's supposed commands reveals the irrationality behind your bias.

Reason isn't on your side here and, of course, that is the problem.

 

[Kitty5001]

I have to ask though - I posed the question as something I was curious if you would be willing to ponder - did you? Don't you think the kids would know there was something amiss - or worse - misinterpret your decisions as something they did wrong? Because kids enevitably want to switch things up and go to the other kids house...you know what I mean?

That is a very tough question and thank goodness I have not been put in that situation but I have been put in one like it, my oldest child wanted to go to her friends house but the parents were questionable drug users and I did not want to go into that with her as again not something she needs to be exposed to and I simply said that she could come to our house but it wasn't a good idea for her to go over there. the Just because answer eventually worked out fine and it turned out that those kids got taken away later that year and their home seized for meth use. Not the childs fault but my kids did not need to be exposed to that environment. Not that drug use environment is like homosexual environment it is different but the basics of agreement with choices are the same. I have believe it or not gay friends-I don't agree with their choices but I love them as people just the same.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

In my opinion, most of you have missed the point of this entire topic anyway and turned it into the age old debate of religion, politics, and sex.

Does it surprise me? No! However, I do find it very disturbing we cannot have a discussion on teaching children respect of others without this debate taking over. :banghead:

 

[Kitty5001]

Your comparisons of a gay domestic couple to and violence is your comparison and yours alone. And it says far more about your thinking than it does about my life.

I knew it would be taken that way because there is so much defensiveness here. I am not comparing gay lifestyle to - I am stating that any kind of controversial subject matter (my mistake for giving actual examples) should be left for the mature minds. You are correct when you say the dynamic is not there until you announce it. That is why we keep it behind closed doors. It is the confusion that erupts when what is seen as the norm is replaced with an alternative. I choose to not expose alternatives until the age is appropriate.

 

[Jessiebell]

I have to ask though - I posed the question as something I was curious if you would be willing to ponder - did you? Don't you think the kids would know there was something amiss - or worse - misinterpret your decisions as something they did wrong? Because kids enevitably want to switch things up and go to the other kids house...you know what I mean?

That is a very tough question and thank goodness I have not been put in that situation but I have been put in one like it, my oldest child wanted to go to her friends house but the parents were questionable drug users and I did not want to go into that with her as again not something she needs to be exposed to and I simply said that she could come to our house but it wasn't a good idea for her to go over there. the Just because answer eventually worked out fine and it turned out that those kids got taken away later that year and their home seized for meth use. Not the childs fault but my kids did not need to be exposed to that environment. Not that drug use environment is like homosexual environment it is different but the basics of agreement with choices are the same. I have believe it or not gay friends-I don't agree with their choices but I love them as people just the same.

Okay. Even though I personally find it impossible to equate drug users with gay couples - I do see how your logic works here. I agree with your decision about the potential drug using parents - so therefore "if" I held your beliefs on homosexuality I would think it quite proper to make the decision to keep them at your house. Thanks Kitty.

 

[Jessiebell]

In my opinion, most of you have missed the point of this entire topic anyway and turned it into the age old debate of religion, politics, and sex.

Does it surprise me? No! However, I do find it very disturbing we cannot have a discussion on teaching children respect of others without this debate taking over. :banghead:

I'm not convinced that you really "can" have this discussion or the similar without a debate.

I'm not so sure it is so "off-topic" either. The discussion is evolving into the basic foundations of "why" the video would even be a discussion.

 

[Jessiebell]

Yeah, except God supposedly said a lot of things were wrong, including the wearing of blended cloth and the trimming of beards before temple services, but I doubt you have a problem with those.

Your selective invocation of God's supposed commands reveals the irrationality behind your bias.

Reason isn't on your side here and, of course, that is the problem.

Yeah - this really gets under my skin. I simply cannot understand why certain parts of the bible can be disregarded and others not - and I have never gotten a decent answer in reference to it either. Not even close.

 

[Kitty5001]

Yeah - this really gets under my skin. I simply cannot understand why certain parts of the bible can be disregarded and others not - and I have never gotten a decent answer in reference to it either. Not even close.

I really think that is because the bible is so hard to understand. You really have to read it and understand the big picture when God said no trimmed beards before service is it possible what he meant was when you come to worship me you should be concerened with your worship and not your vanity concerning yourself about your appearances at that moment? These are things to think about.

 

[narlacat]

The choice for them (my son) to even be aware of at that age is too much information. I would never tell my child he couldn't play with anyone for reasons like that. It is NOT a tolerance issue it is a moral issue.

So, later on when your child is old enough to understand, it's then that you will pass on your predijuces right?