Patsy Ramsey

[redheadedgal]

i have a headache.

 

[bettybaby00]

PMPT - on Dec 26, JR told (Acting) Cmdr of Detectives Larry Mason that he was going to ATL because he had "something really important to attend to"

IRMI - during the June interviews, ST asked JR about the plan to return to ATL: because he "wasn't thinking clearly" and because PR "enjoys the country club and the shopping there, and she can't find lipstick in Boulder"


FF - on Dec 26, JR told Detective Bill Palmer that he had "an important business meeting" in ATL

BBM

What?????!!!!!! :waitasec: :facepalm:

I had to check the google books copy to read that for myself. I.......I'm seriously stunned that he would give such an answer while being formally questioned about the brutal murder of his child.

 

[EvilSoup]

Throw her down the stairs, than say you found her lying there – dead – when you got up the next morning. Say that she must have gotten up in the middle of the night to snack on a bit of pineapple, and d*mn those spiral stairs, anyway!

Don’t call the police, don’t create any self-incriminating evidence, don’t sexually assault her at or near point of death and don’t garrote her. Throw her down the stairs, wait til morning, call an ambulance or take her – dead – directly to the hospital. Call your lawyers. Get outta Dodge.
...

AK

But that would neither explain/obscure signs of ongoing sexual abuse, not would it satify Patsy's flair for the dramatic.

ALSO, a child falling down the stairs would not garner national attention, and honestly, part of me thinks Patsy liked her final role as the suffering ex-beauty queen who tragically lost "that child" to some depraved intruder.

Of course, JMO.

 

[EvilSoup]

BBM

What?????!!!!!! :waitasec: :facepalm:

I had to check the google books copy to read that for myself. I.......I'm seriously stunned that he would give such an answer while being formally questioned about the brutal murder of his child.

Well, Atlanta DOES have fabulous shopping. rincess:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, Atlanta DOES have fabulous shopping. rincess:

Did someone say, "shopping"????




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[Mama2JML]

BBM

What?????!!!!!! :waitasec: :facepalm:

I had to check the google books copy to read that for myself. I.......I'm seriously stunned that he would give such an answer while being formally questioned about the brutal murder of his child.

Page number, please?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Page number, please?

You have an exact quote and the source...

Scratching my head...


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[Mama2JML]

PMPT - on Dec 26, JR told (Acting) Cmdr of Detectives Larry Mason that he was going to ATL because he had "something really important to attend to"

IRMI - during the June interviews, ST asked JR about the plan to return to ATL: because he "wasn't thinking clearly" and because PR "enjoys the country club and the shopping there, and she can't find lipstick in Boulder"

FF - on Dec 26, JR told Detective Bill Palmer that he had "an important business meeting" in ATL

PMPT & IRMI don't mention an important business meeting, and the only pertinent information I've found in FF doesn't refer to a business meeting either. (Page number/chapter, please?)

Did Mr. Ramsey have "important things" to tend to in ATL? Obviously. He'd know as he'd already buried a daughter in Marietta.

 

[Mama2JML]

You have an exact quote and the source...

Scratching my head...


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I want the context.

 

[CherCher]

But why the long windedness of the note? It's obviously not been written by a small foreign faction. Why the attention to detail in the RN? Unless you do indeed entertain the idea of a "sff". Which I don't think you do.

Any supposed reason you can come up with for a would be kidnapper's failure to get rid of JBR's body, for whatever reason, is just as easily explained by Ramsey arrogance.

 

[DeeDee249]

JR - after JB was discovered he was overheard on the phone telling his pilot that they would indeed be flying out shortly; upon hearing this, LE told him that he could not leave and his response was that he had an important meeting scheduled back east

What is so frustrating about this is that in reality JR had planned to fly to Charlevoix to meet up with his older kids, then head out on a Disney cruise where they would be celebrating Patsy's 40th birthday. This wasn't a spur-of-the-moment vacation. It was PLANNED in advance. NOW all of a sudden he has an "important business meeting"? We KNOW he wouldn't have planned a meeting at that time. WHY wasn't he confronted about that? Even if he had one- would this be something any innocent man would do having just brought up his little girl's stiff, cold dead body from the basement? This defies all reason. And once again- the moment came and went without a single challenge. If they were innocent, they would have never wanted to leave before police investigated the murder. Notice he piped up with that "important meeting" crap almost immediately. Not a word about keeping his son out of danger. These were the words of a man who KNEW his family was not in danger.

 

[bettybaby00]

http://books.google.com/books?id=daO2GRk7iocC&q=Lipstick#v=snippet&q=Lipstick&f=false

All I had to do was search for "lipstick" and presto....

 

[bettybaby00]

What is so frustrating about this is that in reality JR had planned to fly to Charlevoix to meet up with his older kids, then head out on a Disney cruise where they would be celebrating Patsy's 40th birthday. This wasn't a spur-of-the-moment vacation. It was PLANNED in advance. NOW all of a sudden he has an "important business meeting"? We KNOW he wouldn't have planned a meeting at that time. WHY wasn't he confronted about that? Even if he had one- would this be something any innocent man would do having just brought up his little girl's stiff, cold dead body from the basement? This defies all reason. And once again- the moment came and went without a single challenge. If they were innocent, they would have never wanted to leave before police investigated the murder. Notice he piped up with that "important meeting" crap almost immediately. Not a word about keeping his son out of danger. These were the words of a man who KNEW his family was not in danger.

BBM
What else could be done? Patsy had already pleaded for Lazarus to raise her from the dead, once that option didn't work, they prayed, and it was time to go, yea?

And as I said earlier, maybe he had prearranged a charter to get him off the Big Red Boat and take him to Atlanta

 

[Mama2JML]

Why did John call his pilot? According to Steve Thomas, in IRMI p. 361:

"The reason for giving the early instruction to his pilot to get the plane ready was he wasn't thinking clearly and just wanted to take his wife and son 'home to Atlanta.'"​

Later in the interview, Steve Thomas asserts (IRMI, p. 361):

"Following up on why they yearned for Atlanta, John Ramsey replied that Patsy liked the south, enjoyed the country club life in the city, and could not find lipstick in Boulder."​

 

[cynic]

There were a couple of other behavioral clues exhibited by John Ramsey on the morning of the kidnapping that appeared out of sync with the circumstances at hand.
At one point that morning, while the family and police investigators still awaited the ransom call, pilot Mike Archuleta volunteered to fly to Minnesota to intercept the commercial jet carrying Melinda and Stewart - the suggestion being that he could quickly meet the kids and ferry them back to Boulder, thus avoiding the hassle of their having to arrange a new commercial flight into Denver.
John Ramsey nixed the idea, and I wondered why he didn’t want to take advantage of his pilot’s offer to shortcut the uncertainty of the availability of flights that would divert the kids to Colorado. I gave thought to the idea that perhaps he had declined this offer because he wanted to be assured of his private plane being accessible for a quick departure from the state. What came later seemed to confirm that piece of speculation.
It seemed incomprehensible to me that John Ramsey, within less than an hour of the discovery of the body his daughter, would be making arrangements to take his family and leave the state by private plane. When overheard making these arrangements with his pilot, Ramsey told Detective Bill Palmer that he had an important business meeting to attend in Georgia. Like many of the Boulder investigators, I pondered the question:
How could a business meeting in Georgia outweigh the need to work with authorities in their attempt to identify the person who had just murdered his daughter?
Foreign Faction, pages 324 - 325

 

[Venom]

Kolar does mention JR's making arrangements to leave town for "a meeting he couldn't miss." In FF, page 41.

While flipping through my book, I thought of this: PR gives conflicting accounts of when she looked in JBR's bedroom. Before or after finding the note, take your pick on what version. But if you looked in and noticed your child not in her room, wouldn't you wonder where she was and check a siblings room for her? Maybe not, maybe I'm just ocd, but whenever I check on one kid I have to check on the other. :shrug:

 

[Venom]

Kolar does mention JR's making arrangements to leave town for "a meeting he couldn't miss." In FF, page 41.

While flipping through my book, I thought of this: PR gives conflicting accounts of when she looked in JBR's bedroom. Before or after finding the note, take your pick on what version. But if you looked in and noticed your child not in her room, wouldn't you wonder where she was and check a siblings room for her? Maybe not, maybe I'm just ocd, but whenever I check on one kid I have to check on the other. :shrug:

 

[Mama2JML]

Thank you, cynic & Venom.

To recap, so far among just three sources cited, we have 3 (to 4) variations of "the story"...

According to Schiller, (PMPT, p. 26 nook) Mr. Ramsey told Sergeant Mason "he had something really important to attend to." (1999)

According to Thomas, (IRMI, p. 361):

"The reason for giving the early instruction to his pilot to get the plane ready was he wasn't thinking clearly and just wanted to take his wife and son 'home to Atlanta.'" (Thomas, 2000)​

According to Kolar, (FF: WRKJB, p. 41):

"At approximately 1340 hours, Detective Bill Palmer overheard John Ramsey speaking on the phone and making arrangements to fly to Atlanta that afternoon or evening. Upon the conclusion of the phone call, Palmer told Ramsey that he couldn't leave town as he would need to stay to assist in the investigation of the murder of his daughter.

The nature of this call was passed along to Mason, and he too spoke with Ramsey about leaving town. John Ramsey reportedly told Mason that he had to leave to attend a meeting 'he couldn't miss.' Sergeant Mason eventually convinced the father of the murdered child of the necessity of remaining in Boulder."
(Kolar, 2012)​

Again, according to Kolar, (FF: WRKJB, p. 324):

"It seemed incomprehensible to me that John Ramsey, within less than an hour of the discovery of the body his daughter, would be making arrangements to take his family and leave the state by private plane. When overheard making these arrangements with his pilot, Ramsey told Detective Bill Palmer that he had an important business meeting to attend in Georgia." (Kolar, 2012)​

 

[otg]

Thank you, cynic & Venom.

To recap, so far among just three sources cited, we have 3 (to 4) variations of "the story"...

According to Schiller, (PMPT, p. 26 nook) Mr. Ramsey told Sergeant Mason "he had something really important to attend to." (1999)

According to Thomas, (IRMI, p. 361):

"The reason for giving the early instruction to his pilot to get the plane ready was he wasn't thinking clearly and just wanted to take his wife and son 'home to Atlanta.'" (Thomas, 2000)​

According to Kolar, (FF: WRKJB, p. 41):

"At approximately 1340 hours, Detective Bill Palmer overheard John Ramsey speaking on the phone and making arrangements to fly to Atlanta that afternoon or evening. Upon the conclusion of the phone call, Palmer told Ramsey that he couldn't leave town as he would need to stay to assist in the investigation of the murder of his daughter.

The nature of this call was passed along to Mason, and he too spoke with Ramsey about leaving town. John Ramsey reportedly told Mason that he had to leave to attend a meeting 'he couldn't miss.' Sergeant Mason eventually convinced the father of the murdered child of the necessity of remaining in Boulder."
(Kolar, 2012)​

Again, according to Kolar, (FF: WRKJB, p. 324):

"It seemed incomprehensible to me that John Ramsey, within less than an hour of the discovery of the body his daughter, would be making arrangements to take his family and leave the state by private plane. When overheard making these arrangements with his pilot, Ramsey told Detective Bill Palmer that he had an important business meeting to attend in Georgia." (Kolar, 2012)​

Except for the version quoted from IRMI (which I’ll get to last), is there really that much of a difference or variation other than the exact words used to describe Ramsey’s reason given for wanting to leave? PMPT and FF both give accounts of the conversation between Ramsey and either Mason or Palmer:

PMPT, p. 26 nook: “something really important to attend to” (Ramsey told Sergeant Mason)
FF: WRKJB, p. 41: “to attend a meeting 'he couldn't miss'” (Ramsey reportedly told Mason)
FF: WRKJB, p. 324: “an important business meeting to attend in Georgia.” (Ramsey told Detective Bill Palmer)

But in IRMI (p. 361), Thomas’ version is an account of John’s testimony during the police interviews. Here are Thomas’ written words about those interviews:

The reason for giving the early instruction to his pilot to get the plane ready was that he wasn’t thinking clearly and just wanted to take his wife and son “home to Atlanta.” And when the police wanted the Ramseys to come in for interviews later that day, he said, “We couldn’t.”

Following up on why they yearned for Atlanta, John Ramsey replied that Patsy like the South, enjoyed shopping and the country club life in the city, and could not find lipstick in Boulder.
​

Here is the recorded testimony from the June, 1997, interviews that Thomas was relating:

June 23, 1997

1 LOU SMIT: Were you given any instructions
2 to call the police or what to do or anything like
3 that?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember that we were.
5 I remember at some point I mentioned to Larry
6 Mason that we go to in Atlanta, I remember
7 thinking that I would just -- when Beth died we
8 went to Atlanta, cause that's our home. That was
9 kind of my instinct, just to go to Atlanta,
10 because that's home (INAUDIBLE). And he said,
11 (Well, you need to stick around for a couple
12 days.̃ (I said okay.̃
13 LOU SMIT: He said to stick around?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: For two or three days. And
15 so we went --
16 LOU SMIT: Did he say when he would contact
17 you or anything like that?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: He might have, but I don't
19 remember. All I specifically remember was the
20 coroner giving me this form to sign and I signed
21 it.
​

June 24, 1997

2 MIKE KANE: She was as happy here as she
3 was --
4 JOHN RAMSEY: She missed some of the amenities
5 of Atlanta, you know, the big shopping centers and
6 the country club. And I think it was to the point
7 where she couldn't find where to buy lipstick in
8 Boulder because she used makeup and stuff like
9 that. But she liked it.
10 But there's things about Atlanta I miss too.
​

So Thomas’ version in IRMI is different from the other accounts in that it is reporting the reasons John gave six months later -- when he had had a chance to think about it and talk it over with his lawyers. John’s version then for going to Atlanta sounds better than the reason given shortly after JonBenet’s body was recovered. On December 26, it was that he had an important meeting in Atlanta which must have come up after he had already told police that their plan was to fly to Charlevoix that day.

Here are my questions about it: Who would schedule a meeting on the day after Christmas? What kind of meeting would come up on the day after Christmas? Who was working then? When did he find out about it? Why didn’t he say anything about it before the detective overheard him on the phone arranging new plans to fly out of Boulder to Atlanta?

 

[THE BUNK]

Here are my questions about it: Who would schedule a meeting on the day after Christmas? What kind of meeting would come up on the day after Christmas? Who was working then? When did he find out about it? Why didn’t he say anything about it before the detective overheard him on the phone arranging new plans to fly out of Boulder to Atlanta?

From my time in the private sector. From December 23rd to January 2nd is pretty much a dead period for business. Heck, even sales people tend to stop during this period. Most people also like to postpone bad news (i.e. layoffs, closings) until after so people's Christmas and New Years's are ruined.

It would have to be something extremely important to warrant a business meeting. Something so important it trumps your dead daughter's murder investigation.