Patsy Ramsey

[lawstudent]

The point is if they fed her the Pineapple because she was up and then killed her they would have removed the pineapple bowl and the spoon. It fits better with an intruder did this. But yet there it was. Who knows who put it there or if she ate some of THAT pineapple. But it sure does not work with an RDI theory. Not applying common sense.

I don't see why they would have removed it, unless they were super neat about that sort of thing. In the chaotic aftermath, why worry about cleaning up the pineapple? It probably seemed totally irrelevant. Given that the house was messy, I don't think that seems odd. They may not have even decided to say she was put to bed immediately upon arriving home until the police were questioning them.

ETA: However, I also don't think it's weird that they said she had not eaten it, all other things aside. I don't see that as a lie. Many parents know what their child has eaten - at JonBenet's age and with how that family operated, I doubt she was allowed to just go and prepare snacks at night by herself. I know my mom would give a conclusive no if in fact she had not fed it to me.

 

[Anti-K]

I don't recall seeing the expert who claimed it could have been eaten as early as 4:30. Link?

Every single thing I've read has stated clearly that pineapple is a quick digesting food. Within a couple of hours. Not 8+ hours. Never that long.

BBM
“Based on the condition of the pineapple in her intestine, the experts estimated that jonbenet had eaten it an hour and a half or two hours before she dies, most likely after the family returned home that night. However, one Boulder medical examiner stated it could have been eaten as early as 4:30 p.m. – before the Ramseys left their home for a dinner at the White’s. If Jonbenet had eaten the pineapple after 10:30 p.m., that made the approximate time of death not earlier than midnight.” PMPT; p. 777-778
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

I agree.
I'm going to need a link to ever believe that one...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BBM
“Based on the condition of the pineapple in her intestine, the experts estimated that jonbenet had eaten it an hour and a half or two hours before she dies, most likely after the family returned home that night. However, one Boulder medical examiner stated it could have been eaten as early as 4:30 p.m. – before the Ramseys left their home for a dinner at the White’s. If Jonbenet had eaten the pineapple after 10:30 p.m., that made the approximate time of death not earlier than midnight.” PMPT; p. 777-778
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

If the pineapple was ate in the afternoon, why didn't one of the other 3 people in the house notice it? No one noticed her eating? Or the bowl sitting on the table? Odd.

I have no idea when she ate it, but it seems that she only ate a small piece – it wasn’t a snack or a meal, it was just a small piece. So, what’s to notice?
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

it was raw pineapple, bought peeled and cut from a store. i cannot remember where i read that, sorry

apparently this thoughtful kidnapper(s) did just that. and he (they) was clever enough to know exactly where bowls and spoons were kept and to leave PR and BR prints on the bowl but not his/hers

he/she was also considerate enough to put the container away. otherwise he was clever enough not only to know JB's preferred snack but also that a container with fresh pineapple was kept in the R's fridge and, again, left not a single fingerprint


lupus est homini , non , non quom qualis sit novit

Straw Man.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

They said she didn't eat pineapple. They didn't say she maybe, probably or could have...they said no, she didn't. There's a reason for that.
It was a lie. She ate pineapple and they don't want to account for it.

No, they did not say that she didn’t eat pineapple. They said that they didn’t feed it to her and that they didn’t know anything about it. So, no lie was revealed.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Then why not say "we had pineapple in the house, she could have had some"?

This lie is very telling

Ah, but they didn’t deny that there was pineapple in the house. They denied feeding it to her. So, no lie was revealed.
...

AK

 

[pukasonqo2]

Straw Man.

...



AK

sorry, english is my second language and i am not familiar withe the straw man concept


lupus est homini , non , non quom qualis sit novit

 

[Anti-K]

sorry, english is my second language and i am not familiar withe the straw man concept


lupus est homini , non , non quom qualis sit novit

Oh. It’s a logical fallacy. It means that you misrepresented the IDI position on the pineapple.
...

AK

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The coroner who did the autopsy estimated she are the pineapple about 2 hours before her death.
Food eaten earlier in the day was seen as the "soft green fecal material" in the lower intestine. That material was already processed and would have been excreted sometime soon had she lived. It would have been impossible at that point to determine with 100% certainty what it was.
However, the pineapple was still in the upper digestive tract- having just left the stomach. There was no way it was eaten before she went to the White's, I don't care what else she did or didn't eat. It was still able to be identified as pineapple, and even further, able to be matched to the pineapple in that specific bowl.
This information is not in the autopsy report, which stated it as such " yellowish material that may represent fragments of pineapple" because the coroner note WHAT HE SEES at the time- before specific tests are done. Later, tests were done to determine that it was, in fact, pineapple.
On this same subject- the coroner noted her ring, cross and ID bracelet as "yellow metal" because that ids what he SAW- yellow metal. Later tests determined that the "yellow metal" was 14K Gold.

However all foods do not digest at the same rate.
I don't believe it was matched to the pineapple in the bowl. I think it was pineapple and that is that. I think the matching is a fallacy put forth by ST.

 

[Mama2JML]

Wolf v. Rs, 09.21.2001:

"Q. (Lin Wood) Who is Dr. Michael Graham?

A. (Steve Thomas) The name Dr. Michael Graham doesn't ring a bell with me right now.

Q. He was not a consultant hired by the Boulder Police Department?

A. He may have been but I'm not familiar with that person.

Q. You don't recall Dr. Michael Graham taking the position that the pineapple found in JonBenét's digestive system could have been eaten the day before? Does that refresh you in terms of Michael Graham's involvement?

A. No, since you mentioned pineapple --

Q. I didn't ask you -- I asked you about Dr. Michael Graham.

A. I'm trying to answer the question.

Q. Well, my question is, does that refresh you about Dr. Graham?

A. In that limited way, no.

Q. The pineapple, we know the autopsy statement about the findings. Were there any tests performed beyond the autopsy on those contents?

A. Yes.

Q. Tell me about that.

A. What I know about that is Detective Weinheimer received that assignment during the course of the investigation, employed the help of I think a biological -- or a botanist or somebody of some expertise at the University of Colorado, Boulder. The name Dr. Bach jumps out at me, as well as others, and he completed a series of reports concerning the pineapple and I think to save time one of those conclusions I think I put in the book.

Q. About the rinds being identical?

A. That it was a fresh pineapple consistent -- fresh pineapple with a rind.

Q. Rind being consistent -- oh, with a rind but consistent with pineapple found in the house or in the bowl?

A. Yeah, and let me clarify that, pineapple consistent down to the rind with pineapple found in the bowl in the kitchen.

Q. Consistent down to the rind. It seems to me pineapple with rind is pineapple with rind. Was there something unique about this particular rind?

A. I think they were able to determine -- well, in fact, I know that fellow Officer Weinheimer disclosed to us that they were able to characterize it as a fresh pineapple rather than a canned pineapple.

Q. Okay.

A. I think the investigation lent itself as far as, and Detective Weinheimer is a capable investigator, as far as contacting Dole Pineapple in Hawaii, et cetera.

Q. Do you know whether there were any other reports on the pineapple, other than the autopsy reports and Dr. Bach's reports?

A. Yeah, there was a series of reports on Weinheimer's investigation.

Q. Do you know anybody else by name that was involved in that, other than the Dr.Bach? I mean, Dole didn't give you any report, did they?

A. No, not that I'm aware of. Sorry, the names escape me but there are other reports with other planters, I guess, pineapple, for lack of a better term, experts.

Q. Any of those reports, anybody come up with something that was inconclusive in terms of findings?

A. I'm sorry, I don't recall the content of the reports."​

Two questions:

-Who is Dr. Michael Graham?

-Was the pineapple in JB's small intestine simply determined to be consistent with fresh pineapple (I.e. not canned) or was it determined to have come from the pineapple in the bowl on the Rs' breakfast table?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Wolf v. Rs, 09.21.2001:

"Q. (Lin Wood) Who is Dr. Michael Graham?

A. (Steve Thomas) The name Dr. Michael Graham doesn't ring a bell with me right now.

Q. He was not a consultant hired by the Boulder Police Department?

A. He may have been but I'm not familiar with that person.

Q. You don't recall Dr. Michael Graham taking the position that the pineapple found in JonBenét's digestive system could have been eaten the day before? Does that refresh you in terms of Michael Graham's involvement?

A. No, since you mentioned pineapple --

Q. I didn't ask you -- I asked you about Dr. Michael Graham.

A. I'm trying to answer the question.

Q. Well, my question is, does that refresh you about Dr. Graham?

A. In that limited way, no.

Q. The pineapple, we know the autopsy statement about the findings. Were there any tests performed beyond the autopsy on those contents?

A. Yes.

Q. Tell me about that.

A. What I know about that is Detective Weinheimer received that assignment during the course of the investigation, employed the help of I think a biological -- or a botanist or somebody of some expertise at the University of Colorado, Boulder. The name Dr. Bach jumps out at me, as well as others, and he completed a series of reports concerning the pineapple and I think to save time one of those conclusions I think I put in the book.

Q. About the rinds being identical?

A. That it was a fresh pineapple consistent -- fresh pineapple with a rind.

Q. Rind being consistent -- oh, with a rind but consistent with pineapple found in the house or in the bowl?

A. Yeah, and let me clarify that, pineapple consistent down to the rind with pineapple found in the bowl in the kitchen.

Q. Consistent down to the rind. It seems to me pineapple with rind is pineapple with rind. Was there something unique about this particular rind?

A. I think they were able to determine -- well, in fact, I know that fellow Officer Weinheimer disclosed to us that they were able to characterize it as a fresh pineapple rather than a canned pineapple.

Q. Okay.

A. I think the investigation lent itself as far as, and Detective Weinheimer is a capable investigator, as far as contacting Dole Pineapple in Hawaii, et cetera.

Q. Do you know whether there were any other reports on the pineapple, other than the autopsy reports and Dr. Bach's reports?

A. Yeah, there was a series of reports on Weinheimer's investigation.

Q. Do you know anybody else by name that was involved in that, other than the Dr.Bach? I mean, Dole didn't give you any report, did they?

A. No, not that I'm aware of. Sorry, the names escape me but there are other reports with other planters, I guess, pineapple, for lack of a better term, experts.

Q. Any of those reports, anybody come up with something that was inconclusive in terms of findings?

A. I'm sorry, I don't recall the content of the reports."​

Two questions:

-Who is Dr. Michael Graham?

-Was the pineapple in JB's small intestine simply determined to be consistent with fresh pineapple (I.e. not canned) or was it determined to have come from the pineapple in the bowl on the Rs' breakfast table?

Thank you. So the point is that it was not matched as that pineapple in the bowl. Just the same type of pineapple. Fresh instead of canned.

 

[Tawny]

So, one unnamed BPD examiner versus every single other iota of scientific fact regarding pineapple. I'll go with science on this one. Thanks for the quote from the book, I appreciate you finding it for me.

 

[lawstudent]

Wouldn't it be virtually impossible to match it to that particular pineapple? Almost nothing is that certain in any case. Out of all the things I doubt in this case, the fact that she ate that pineapple isn't one of them.

 

[questfortrue]

So, one unnamed BPD examiner versus every single other iota of scientific fact regarding pineapple. I'll go with science on this one. Thanks for the quote from the book, I appreciate you finding it for me.

Dr. Michael Graham was an ME with the City of St. Louis, Missouri. Don’t know how he came to be contacted. While I never saw his statement in context, except in the depo of ST, it seems that Graham’s opinion of the ingestion of this pineapple isn’t echoed by other scientists. In fact, one medical imaging technician who performed the experiment on himself, saw the pineapple reach the same place in his upper digestive track as JB – after only ½ hour!

The most adamant opinion was by Cyril Wecht who commented once in his book Mortal Evidence that it would have taken about 2 hours for the pineapple to pass to the upper part of the small intestine where JB’s pineapple was found. Further, the fecal material found in the large intestine (which completes the digestion of food into fecal material) was likely the crab seafood she ate at the W’s party. Here’s how it can be considered, according to Wecht: The crab foodstuff does not race past the pineapple to reach a point lower in the digestive track. The crab had been metabolized earlier than the pineapple.

Info about the intestinal track: http://www.innerbody.com/image/dige08.html :seeya:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So, one unnamed BPD examiner versus every single other iota of scientific fact regarding pineapple. I'll go with science on this one. Thanks for the quote from the book, I appreciate you finding it for me.

The problem is there is no definitive scientific data, Because in each case a human is involved with different digestive systems and rates of digestion.
So there is not ONE answer. Even scientifically.

 

[lawstudent]

The problem is there is no definitive scientific data, Because in each case a human is involved with different digestive systems and rates of digestion.
So there is not ONE answer. Even scientifically.

Yes, I mean I agree no one can say down to the minute when she ate. But there is a reasonable amount of time of at least a few hours, particularly if food she ate earlier had been digested. Then you have the pineapple sitting right there. I think it's fair to assume she ate it at home after the party, unless we had evidence that there was pineapple at the party she was eating. I don't know how soon after she got home, but that's not really the point - whether she ate it right as they got home or much later, they didn't seem to remember that she had, which is weird.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes, I mean I agree no one can say down to the minute when she ate. But there is a reasonable amount of time of at least a few hours, particularly if food she ate earlier had been digested. Then you have the pineapple sitting right there. I think it's fair to assume she ate it at home after the party, unless we had evidence that there was pineapple at the party she was eating. I don't know how soon after she got home, but that's not really the point - whether she ate it right as they got home or much later, they didn't seem to remember that she had, which is weird.

I don't think we can say that because we don't know if there as pineapple at the party or not. If it was in something or not. We don't.

I don't see how people think it is weird that they don't remember her eating it. She is 6 not 3. She can get food for herself and she can feed herself. So that she got it and ate it and they did not know, Does not strike me as odd at all.

 

[2 percent]

Wouldn't it be virtually impossible to match it to that particular pineapple? Almost nothing is that certain in any case. Out of all the things I doubt in this case, the fact that she ate that pineapple isn't one of them.

The difference between two fresh pineapples, probably not.
The difference between canned pineapple and fresh pineapple, yes most likely. Preservation in cans have chemical markers that would survive that level of digestion.

 

[Tawny]

Pineapple doesn't take more than maybe 3 hours to metabolize in the slowest metabolic system. It doesn't matter WHO you are.