Patsy Ramsey

You remember incorrectly.

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AK


Depends on which Ramsey version you want to go with.

Both John and Patsy Ramsey have stated in their 1998 police interviews that they know nothing about the pineapple in the bowl; Patsy does not recall even buying pineapple.



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Why do you think anyone on this site hasn't looked at all possibities? Most of us have read more than one book on the case and read much of the available statements, interviews, etc.
I see posters constantly saying they used to think one way then the evidence in the case changed their mind. But even if that weren't true, there's no reason to think anyone came to an opinion without serious thought.

bbm
What evidence are you talking about?

Really? I guess we're reading different threads then because I see people repeating the same argument over and over again. And I see a lot of IMO illogical reasoning based on bias against Patsy Ramsey. If you are basing a conclusion on gossip about how Patsy acted at one event and then pretending this indicates anything more than how Patsy acted at one event, it's biased.

When people use logical fallacies like "I don't believe it" or "When I was a kid I never did that" or "My kids don't do that" or "I don't like how she acted as a Pageant Mom" as a lens through which to evaluate evidence, then it's biased.

And since people have pointed this out over and over again and people refuse to try to look at it a different way, then it doesn't seem like people want to consider different ways of examining information.

Also if most of the information you've come by is through gossip rags, like the National Enquirer, (which I've seen referenced several times) then it doesn't seem like people want to actually examine the puzzle in a different way.

I haven't seen anything new or fresh. I've seen the same arguments over and over again.

I used to use this anecdote to explain what I mean by "looking at it a different way"

Many years ago I worked in a restaurant that served Tiramisu as a desert. It came in these huge trays that you had to tap down and then peel the top off of. One of the waitresses I worked with forgot to tap it down and when she peeled off the top she peeled off the top layer of coating. She then grabbed raw espresso and sprinkled it over the top. I came in to see her doing this and told her she was wrong. It wasn't espresso it was supposed to be cinnamon. She insisted it wasn't cinnamon it was espresso. We both went round and round in the debate until the owner walked in. He told us we were BOTH wrong, it was cocoa. But the entire time we'd just both assumed our answer was correct. And we were both wrong.

I see many people trying to look at the evidence from a different perspective. I don't know what happened. I've asked people to line up the evidence in a way that makes the theories being discussed easy to analyze. Instead we get jumping back to the biases. Like I said before, I posted a theory that maybe Patsy did it. I don't think she's necessarily innocent. But I do know that it's probably a totally different scenario than has been discussed because the case still remains UNSOLVED. So IMO the key is to shuffle the puzzle pieces around and look at it from a different perspective.

Key in doing that IMO is only looking at the evidence. A small example is the fingerprints on the bowl. If the fingerprints on the bowl show Patsy's hand was holding the bowl, then it's clear she is the one who put the bowl on the table. I do think however, that three fingerprints is not enough fingerprints to clearly indicate that she picked it up, moved it to a counter, filled it with both pineapple and milk, and then picked it up again. IMO there would be more fingerprints. So I'm cautious and wonder if they could have gotten on the bowl simply from putting it from the dishwasher into the cabinet.

To me it not's not a contest to win the debate, it's about figuring out the truth. I'm willing to be wrong and to see it a different way. Actually there's nothing about me being "wrong" per se because I have no set theory on what happened. The truth is we still haven't figured it out.



I'm answering because you asked. But I'm not going to reply again to this line of questioning. But I do appreciate you asking. :)
 
Jonbenet would not have needed to open the fridge or be able to reach the bowl and serve herself, etc.

I don’t know what happened any more than anyone else but my imagination is at least as good as anyone else’s. For example: let’s say that sometime Christmas morning Mrs Ramsey puts the pineapple in the bowl and she just forgets about it. Or, someone else puts the pineapple in the bowl and Mrs Ramsey knows nothing about it. People were in the home that morning/day – children and such – so, who knows? Pineapple ends up in a bowl.

Later, maybe even the next morning, someone moves the bowl from over here to over there (where it is later found). Maybe someone clearing space, or cleaning up. Maybe there’s a big spoon sitting there so they pick that up too and move it with the bowl. Why not, eh? Maybe the glass is already on the table when the bowl and spoon is set down beside it.

Now, what if, maybe, who knows, someone makes a cup of tea and once it’s steeped they scoop out the teabag and – oh, where do I put this – ah, there’s a dirty glass. Plunk.
…

AK

This is a good example of reshuffling the evidence. Let's add another scenario, Patsy set up the table earlier and completely and totally blanked on doing it. She was rushing around for the party and planning for her trip for the next day, she sets up the bowl in the dining room and then goes back to what she was doing. At some point after Jonbenet wakes up she goes or is taken downstairs and picks a few pieces of pineapple out of the bowl and eats it.

And let's say during interrogation (like in my story) Patsy absolutely blanks on doing it and doesn't remember. But later that night she realizes she remembers. If you were her attorney what would you tell her? DO NOT CHANGE YOUR STORY. Period the end, don't change it because people are going to jump on your changing it as proof of guilt.

So she just sticks with the first story.

COULD have happened. Unlikely but possible. But if it did happen what does this change in the interpretation.

It also explains why some people feel like she's not being totally honest. And maybe she's not being totally honest because the cops have got her in their bullseye and she's afraid they won't believe her.
 
The basement window would have been a perfect choice – cheap and easy to repair, out of the way, below ground, not easily visible to the public, nothing important exposed to the elements, repairs can be put off, etc.
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AK

I don't buy some of that argument in this case.
These people were millionaire's, why would they put the repair of a window off? I can see the basement window being picked, but I can see no reason for putting off the repair.
 
Staging always indicates to me an inside job. It does look like the window was staged in the basement. But "inside job" doesn't necessarily limit it to the Ramseys, although I lean that way.
 
Patsy's recollection was that JonBenét bathed the 24th before going to an evening church service.
How so? Was JonBenét dirty? ...stinky? Did she have lice? ...tooth decay? ...halitosis? ...impetigo?

Thank you for the giggle this morning on the halitosis question.

About the stinky part, according to Patsy, JB bathed before attending Christmas Mass on the 24th. JB did not bathe before going to the White's on the 25th. However, all of her clothing on the floor in her bdrm and btrm are dirtied. Hopefully, PR used a warm bath cloth and cleaned her baby girl's bottom area before dressing her for the dinner party.

Where could JonBenét have walked that would leave lint on her feet? Did ST mean that lint was caught in between her toes like when one, especially children, gets lint on their feet sometimes from wearing cotton socks? Maybe she wore new cotton socks with her black boots with leopard trim to the White's dinner party.
 
Depends on which Ramsey version you want to go with.

Both John and Patsy Ramsey have stated in their 1998 police interviews that they know nothing about the pineapple in the bowl; Patsy does not recall even buying pineapple.



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I don’t think we need to choose between the versions. Neither of them remember anything about the pineapple.

I’ve been through the transcripts as many times as most and Mrs Ramsey does not ever deny that there was pineapple in the house. Whether or not she remembered buying it is glossed over although there is much discussion regarding her pineapple purchasing.

Mrs Ramsey denies knowing anything about the pineapple and she denies the “setup,” but she does not deny the pineapple itself.
...

AK
 
"I may have kicked it"

Sounds rather non committal IMO


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I’ve always been fond of the story a now forgotten poster once suggested wherein Mr Ramsey had a few too many drinks – ya know, taking advantage of the wife’s absence – came home a bit tipsy and well, the rest is history, except for him it’s a vaguely remembered and blurry history. :)

I think that the location of the hole strongly suggests that it was broken by someone sitting at ground level with their legs dangling down into the window well; then, swing...
...

AK
 
You remember incorrectly.
…

AK

I don't think so..but it's curious that you're so sure I'm wrong.
One of the hardest things to prove is a negative, but if that's what you want to do, I won't stop you.
 
I don't buy some of that argument in this case.
These people were millionaire's, why would they put the repair of a window off? I can see the basement window being picked, but I can see no reason for putting off the repair.

Didn't the kids play in the basement? Wouldn't it be freezing in the winter?
 
Mrs Ramsey said that she usually bought “fresh pineapple, not canned.” She simply said that Jonbenet liked pineapple. I don’t remember Thomas saying that pineapple was found in a container in the fridge. Is this true? The pineapple was consistent with the pineapple in the bowl, but it would also have been consistent with any fresh pineapple found almost anywhere. The Ramseys had Jonbenet being put to bed by 9:30.
…

AK

I read that Patsy said JonBenet liked fresh pineapple.

Yes, I also read that the pineapple in JonBenet's duodenum was consistent with the pineapple in the bowl. I also read that there was a container of fresh pineapple found in a super market container in a refrigerator. Maybe it was in "Perfect Murder. Perfect Town."

I don't know if one fresh pineapple is chemically consistent in all ways with any other fresh pineapple ... maybe the region where it was grown and other factors alter the results.

Obviously, Lou Smit saw the importance of the pineapple. Steve Thomas thought it was important. Two investigators, one from each side of the fence, believing the pineapple was from the bowl should suggest the importance of the partially digested pineapple not fitting in the timeline presented by the Ramseys. It is, imo, silly to suggest otherwise.
 
I read that Patsy said JonBenet liked fresh pineapple.

Yes, I also read that the pineapple in JonBenet's duodenum was consistent with the pineapple in the bowl. I also read that there was a container of fresh pineapple found in a super market container in a refrigerator. Maybe it was in "Perfect Murder. Perfect Town."

I don't know if one fresh pineapple is chemically consistent in all ways with any other fresh pineapple ... maybe the region where it was grown and other factors alter the results.

Obviously, Lou Smit saw the importance of the pineapple. Steve Thomas thought it was important. Two investigators, one from each side of the fence, believing the pineapple was from the bowl should suggest the importance of the partially digested pineapple not fitting in the timeline presented by the Ramseys. It is, imo, silly to suggest otherwise.


Especially considering the cracked crab she had eaten at the Whites had already been digested. ( autopsy) the pineapple had to of been eaten AFTER the crab. IMO


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Really? I guess we're reading different threads then because I see people repeating the same argument over and over again. And I see a lot of IMO illogical reasoning based on bias against Patsy Ramsey. If you are basing a conclusion on gossip about how Patsy acted at one event and then pretending this indicates anything more than how Patsy acted at one event, it's biased.

We weren't talking about repetition, though. We were talking about informed opinions. Informed opinions will most likely be repetitious...especially when newbies don't take the time to research the site or purposefully contrary people constantly ask for links.

When people use logical fallacies like "I don't believe it" or "When I was a kid I never did that" or "My kids don't do that" or "I don't like how she acted as a Pageant Mom" as a lens through which to evaluate evidence, then it's biased.

Yes. And in my experience everyone has done that on this site. Most make it perfectly clear it's both a personal anecdote and their opinion only.
Like it or not, opinions are allowed and everyone should decide their value. You don't like...scroll. moo

And since people have pointed this out over and over again and people refuse to try to look at it a different way, then it doesn't seem like people want to consider different ways of examining information.

Or they have already experienced this challenge to their opinion forming process several times, solidified their beliefs, and don't want to do it again.

Also if most of the information you've come by is through gossip rags, like the National Enquirer, (which I've seen referenced several times) then it doesn't seem like people want to actually examine the puzzle in a different way.

I am willing to indulge you to some extent but let's get back to reality...the majority of proof given here is not from the Enquirer or anything like it. Most of the proof comes from the books first and transcripts next.
As is customary, you may dismiss any and all sources you deem unworthy but you may not restrict anyone else in that way. There is always an ignore button for those who quote the Enquirer too much for your liking, of course.

I haven't seen anything new or fresh. I've seen the same arguments over and over again.

This isn't a new or fresh case. It's doubtful any more info will be had until John and/or Burke die. Even then, a resolution in this case is very unlikely.

I used to use this anecdote to explain what I mean by "looking at it a different way"

Many years ago I worked in a restaurant that served Tiramisu as a desert. It came in these huge trays that you had to tap down and then peel the top off of. One of the waitresses I worked with forgot to tap it down and when she peeled off the top she peeled off the top layer of coating. She then grabbed raw espresso and sprinkled it over the top. I came in to see her doing this and told her she was wrong. It wasn't espresso it was supposed to be cinnamon. She insisted it wasn't cinnamon it was espresso. We both went round and round in the debate until the owner walked in. He told us we were BOTH wrong, it was cocoa. But the entire time we'd just both assumed our answer was correct. And we were both wrong.

I see many people trying to look at the evidence from a different perspective. I don't know what happened. I've asked people to line up the evidence in a way that makes the theories being discussed easy to analyze. Instead we get jumping back to the biases. Like I said before, I posted a theory that maybe Patsy did it. I don't think she's necessarily innocent. But I do know that it's probably a totally different scenario than has been discussed because the case still remains UNSOLVED. So IMO the key is to shuffle the puzzle pieces around and look at it from a different perspective.

Key in doing that IMO is only looking at the evidence. A small example is the fingerprints on the bowl. If the fingerprints on the bowl show Patsy's hand was holding the bowl, then it's clear she is the one who put the bowl on the table. I do think however, that three fingerprints is not enough fingerprints to clearly indicate that she picked it up, moved it to a counter, filled it with both pineapple and milk, and then picked it up again. IMO there would be more fingerprints. So I'm cautious and wonder if they could have gotten on the bowl simply from putting it from the dishwasher into the cabinet.

To me it not's not a contest to win the debate, it's about figuring out the truth. I'm willing to be wrong and to see it a different way. Actually there's nothing about me being "wrong" per se because I have no set theory on what happened. The truth is we still haven't figured it out.



I'm answering because you asked. But I'm not going to reply again to this line of questioning. But I do appreciate you asking. :)

I'm wary of people who think they are the only one looking at evidence when it simply may be that posters that have been here a long time don't want to dwell in the black or white, but in the gooey gray center.
 
It is JMO, but I think the reason you wouldn't see a lot of consistency is because there was a "public" Patsy and a private Patsy. Just like the house where the "public" rooms were done up like A Dept. Store at Christmas but the "private" house was a pigsty like the room JonBenet was found in.

Same with parenting, marriage, everything, IMO. Public face. Private face.

Wee oo! Wee oo! This is an alarm letting you know a personal experience is going to be shared!

I'm pretty much a what-you-see-is-what-you-get person. That extends to my house, marriage and rotten kids. That simple explanation just hadn't entered my mind. Great catch!

(I'm sorry chewy if my teasing offends you ~ I am incorrigible :giggle:)
 
Wee oo! Wee oo! This is an alarm letting you know a personal experience is going to be shared!

I'm pretty much a what-you-see-is-what-you-get person. That extends to my house, marriage and rotten kids. That simple explanation just hadn't entered my mind. Great catch!

(I'm sorry chewy if my teasing offends you ~ I am incorrigible :giggle:)

:lol: same
 
We weren't talking about repetition, though. We were talking about informed opinions. Informed opinions will most likely be repetitious...especially when newbies don't take the time to research the site or purposefully contrary people constantly ask for links.



Yes. And in my experience everyone has done that on this site. Most make it perfectly clear it's both a personal anecdote and their opinion only.
Like it or not, opinions are allowed and everyone should decide their value. You don't like...scroll. moo



Or they have already experienced this challenge to their opinion forming process several times, solidified their beliefs, and don't want to do it again.



I am willing to indulge you to some extent but let's get back to reality...the majority of proof given here is not from the Enquirer or anything like it. Most of the proof comes from the books first and transcripts next.
As is customary, you may dismiss any and all sources you deem unworthy but you may not restrict anyone else in that way. There is always an ignore button for those who quote the Enquirer too much for your liking, of course.



This isn't a new or fresh case. It's doubtful any more info will be had until John and/or Burke die. Even then, a resolution in this case is very unlikely.



I'm wary of people who think they are the only one looking at evidence when it simply may be that posters that have been here a long time don't want to dwell in the black or white, but in the gooey gray center.

Exactly. Many have been posting here for years, and have examined the evidence and considered all the different possibilities that can be drawn from what we know, which ain't a whole heck of a lot.

I remember a recent convo discussing some of the aspects laid out in Kolar's book. It was regarding the autopsy report. I pointed out why his chapter titled "Interpreting the injuries," is aptly named. the evidence is based on interpretation, b/c that's what detectives and forensic experts do. They are given the "facts," and then its time to interpret it.

Without a confession there's no other way to solve a case, and it's what each and every one of us do here. We take the info that we have and then draw a conclusion.
 
Without a confession there's no other way to solve a case, and it's what each and every one of us do here. We take the info that we have and then draw a conclusion.

Whether you are IDI or RDI this is ultimately will be how this case is solved.

Someone confessing or ratting out the killer. Much like how the Unabomber case was solved.
 

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