Patsy Ramsey

[elannia]

Except for the version quoted from IRMI (which I’ll get to last), is there really that much of a difference or variation other than the exact words used to describe Ramsey’s reason given for wanting to leave? PMPT and FF both give accounts of the conversation between Ramsey and either Mason or Palmer:

PMPT, p. 26 nook: “something really important to attend to” (Ramsey told Sergeant Mason)
FF: WRKJB, p. 41: “to attend a meeting 'he couldn't miss'” (Ramsey reportedly told Mason)
FF: WRKJB, p. 324: “an important business meeting to attend in Georgia.” (Ramsey told Detective Bill Palmer)

But in IRMI (p. 361), Thomas’ version is an account of John’s testimony during the police interviews. Here are Thomas’ written words about those interviews:

The reason for giving the early instruction to his pilot to get the plane ready was that he wasn’t thinking clearly and just wanted to take his wife and son “home to Atlanta.” And when the police wanted the Ramseys to come in for interviews later that day, he said, “We couldn’t.”

Following up on why they yearned for Atlanta, John Ramsey replied that Patsy like the South, enjoyed shopping and the country club life in the city, and could not find lipstick in Boulder.
​

Here is the recorded testimony from the June, 1997, interviews that Thomas was relating:

June 23, 1997

1 LOU SMIT: Were you given any instructions
2 to call the police or what to do or anything like
3 that?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember that we were.
5 I remember at some point I mentioned to Larry
6 Mason that we go to in Atlanta, I remember
7 thinking that I would just -- when Beth died we
8 went to Atlanta, cause that's our home. That was
9 kind of my instinct, just to go to Atlanta,
10 because that's home (INAUDIBLE). And he said,
11 (Well, you need to stick around for a couple
12 days.̃ (I said okay.̃
13 LOU SMIT: He said to stick around?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: For two or three days. And
15 so we went --
16 LOU SMIT: Did he say when he would contact
17 you or anything like that?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: He might have, but I don't
19 remember. All I specifically remember was the
20 coroner giving me this form to sign and I signed
21 it.
​

June 24, 1997

2 MIKE KANE: She was as happy here as she
3 was --
4 JOHN RAMSEY: She missed some of the amenities
5 of Atlanta, you know, the big shopping centers and
6 the country club. And I think it was to the point
7 where she couldn't find where to buy lipstick in
8 Boulder because she used makeup and stuff like
9 that. But she liked it.
10 But there's things about Atlanta I miss too.
​

So Thomas’ version in IRMI is different from the other accounts in that it is reporting the reasons John gave six months later -- when he had had a chance to think about it and talk it over with his lawyers. John’s version then for going to Atlanta sounds better than the reason given shortly after JonBenet’s body was recovered. On December 26, it was that he had an important meeting in Atlanta which must have come up after he had already told police that their plan was to fly to Charlevoix that day.

Here are my questions about it: Who would schedule a meeting on the day after Christmas? What kind of meeting would come up on the day after Christmas? Who was working then? When did he find out about it? Why didn’t he say anything about it before the detective overheard him on the phone arranging new plans to fly out of Boulder to Atlanta?

And also did he just forget he had a scheduled trip planned in advance. I mean come on all of a sudden his daughter is found dead but he has a meeting in atl

 

[chlban]

From my time in the private sector. From December 23rd to January 2nd is pretty much a dead period for business. Heck, even sales people tend to stop during this period. Most people also like to postpone bad news (i.e. layoffs, closings) until after so people's Christmas and New Years's are ruined.

It would have to be something extremely important to warrant a business meeting. Something so important it trumps your dead daughter's murder investigation.

Another excellent point. I know in my company you would be hard pressed to find anyone at management level or above during that time period. I cannot imagine that we would ever schedule any important meeting during that time frame and certainly not the day after Christmas.

In fact, with Christmas falling on a Wednesday, as it did again last year, this place cleared out on Dec. 20th. and stayed clear until January 6th.

 

[questfortrue]

There’s always the stray thought that perhaps there was no important business meeting in Atlanta? But an important business meeting would be a logical reason for an executive to leave. (It’s illogical to everyone else given the circumstances - DeeDee249’s super Post #1992 on this thread.)

Since FW received a phone call from friend/attorney MB, in the afternoon of the 26th a few hours after the child’s body was found (IRMI), and an investigative team from the H law firm was trying to also reach FW late afternoon on the 26th (FF), actually interviewing FW on the 27th, is it possible that an attorney had been contacted the morning of the 26th? I ponder the timing of phone calls because the R’s weren’t really alone after they left the home, and a private phone call to an attorney would have been more difficult. (They were in vehicles with other people and then at the F’s home, iirc.) Perhaps when LA lost track of JR, he was in the basement, making a call or two? The decision to try to leave town for Atlanta, was this JR's thinking alone, or could it have been a suggestion from someone he called upon for help? :moo:

MHO

 

[THE BUNK]

And also did he just forget he had a scheduled trip planned in advance. I mean come on all of a sudden his daughter is found dead but he has a meeting in atl

Not to mention..how does he know that this meeting was scheduled as part of the killers plans? Why would he not think his business partners were the ones that plotted to kidnap and/or kill his daughters? Unlikely? Perhaps, but I would think that after the events of that night, all bets would be off with John Ramsey. Personally I would trust nobody in my inner circle after reading that ransom note!

 

[bettybaby00]

There’s always the stray thought that perhaps there was no important business meeting in Atlanta? But an important business meeting would be a logical reason for an executive to leave. (It’s illogical to everyone else given the circumstances - DeeDee249’s super Post #1992 on this thread.)

Since FW received a phone call from friend/attorney MB, in the afternoon of the 26th a few hours after the child’s body was found (IRMI), and an investigative team from the H law firm was trying to also reach FW late afternoon on the 26th (FF), actually interviewing FW on the 27th, is it possible that an attorney had been contacted the morning of the 26th? I ponder the timing of phone calls because the R’s weren’t really alone after they left the home, and a private phone call to an attorney would have been more difficult. (They were in vehicles with other people and then at the F’s home, iirc.) Perhaps when LA lost track of JR, he was in the basement, making a call or two? The decision to try to leave town for Atlanta, was this JR's thinking alone, or could it have been a suggestion from someone he called upon for help? :moo:

MHO

Hmmmm interesting to consider. I can't see a lawyer advising him to leave b/c he should know better. But then again, his lawyers weren't run of the mill shylocks, and clearly were used to having things done in a manner that benefitted their clients the most.

 

[Mama2JML]

What important event in ATL might the Ramseys have been faced with? ...a burial? ...a funeral for their daughter? The only source I've come across, referring to "the event" as anything business-like, is FF: WRKJB. Are there other reliable sources that support Kolar's deduction?...

 

[otg]

What important event in ATL might the Ramseys have been faced with? ...a burial? ...a funeral for their daughter? The only source I've come across, referring to "the event" as anything business-like, is FF: WRKJB. Are there other reliable sources that support Kolar's deduction?...

Would he really have been planning her funeral less than an hour after finding her dead body? Without discussing it with Patsy? Do you really think that was the reason John would be making arrangements to fly to Atlanta at that moment in time? I know some people have accused John of being "the iceman", but to be told his daughter is dead (as if it wasn't obvious) and think he would then say, "Oh, okay, excuse me while I go make arrangements to have her buried," is even colder than I think anyone here would accuse him of being.

I don't remember offhand where it was first reported, but John's claiming an important business meeting in Atlanta was discussed long before Kolar's book came out.

 

[Mama2JML]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

 

[DeeDee249]

There’s always the stray thought that perhaps there was no important business meeting in Atlanta? But an important business meeting would be a logical reason for an executive to leave. (It’s illogical to everyone else given the circumstances - DeeDee249’s super Post #1992 on this thread.)

Since FW received a phone call from friend/attorney MB, in the afternoon of the 26th a few hours after the child’s body was found (IRMI), and an investigative team from the H law firm was trying to also reach FW late afternoon on the 26th (FF), actually interviewing FW on the 27th, is it possible that an attorney had been contacted the morning of the 26th? I ponder the timing of phone calls because the R’s weren’t really alone after they left the home, and a private phone call to an attorney would have been more difficult. (They were in vehicles with other people and then at the F’s home, iirc.) Perhaps when LA lost track of JR, he was in the basement, making a call or two? The decision to try to leave town for Atlanta, was this JR's thinking alone, or could it have been a suggestion from someone he called upon for help? :moo:

MHO

This is exactly why the phone records were so important. He made calls- that much is certain. And who he called would explain a LOT. Which is exactly why he and his lawyers did not want anyone to know who he called.

 

[Venom]

IMO, there was no business meeting on the 26th. They were taking 2 trips; one to MI and the Disney cruise. Who would schedule a meeting knowing that they were going to be away on vacation? No one. It's just ridiculous to even think that one would even be worried about a meeting after finding your dead child in your house. All moo.

 

[bettybaby00]

IMO, there was no business meeting on the 26th. They were taking 2 trips; one to MI and the Disney cruise. Who would schedule a meeting knowing that they were going to be away on vacation? No one. It's just ridiculous to even think that one would even be worried about a meeting after finding your dead child in your house. All moo.

Oh course there was no meeting. Why didn't he say "we want to go 'home' we have to lay our daughter to rest?"

his updated statement doesn't even include JBs funeral as a motivating factor.

 

[otg]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Then I really am missing the point. What is it you're questioning?

 

[redheadedgal]

methinks john ramsey lied about the meeting to

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/get_out_of_Dodge


it's the only thing that makes any sense.

 

[Mama2JML]

Then I really am missing the point. What is it you're questioning?

I don't know what John Ramsey said. So far, just three separate sources have individually painted a slightly different picture.

 

[THE BUNK]

I don't know what John Ramsey said. So far, just three separate sources have individually painted a slightly different picture.

You're going to have to elaborate. I think you lost most of us on the point your trying to make

 

[Mama2JML]

You're going to have to elaborate. I think you lost most of us on the point your trying to make

March 2000:

"BARBARA WALTERS: It was reported also Mr. Ramsey that shortly after you found your daughter's body, that you called the pilot of your plane to arrange a flight to Atlanta. Is that true?

JOHN RAMSEY: I did. We had um ... been asked to leave the house. Within minutes of that happening the police took the house over. We had no where to go. Atlanta was our home. Uh, we lived in Atlanta for 25 years. That's where our family was. We wanted to go home."​

PMPT, p. 26 (nook):

"[John] Ramsey said he had something really important to attend to." (Schiller, 1999)​

IRMI, p. 361:

"The reason for giving the early instruction to his pilot to get the plane ready was he wasn't thinking clearly and just wanted to take his wife and son 'home to Atlanta.'" (Thomas, 2000)​

FF: WRKJB, p. 41:

"At approximately 1340 hours, Detective Bill Palmer overheard John Ramsey speaking on the phone and making arrangements to fly to Atlanta that afternoon or evening. Upon the conclusion of the phone call, Palmer told Ramsey that he couldn't leave town as he would need to stay to assist in the investigation of the murder of his daughter.

The nature of this call was passed along to Mason, and he too spoke with Ramsey about leaving town. John Ramsey reportedly told Mason that he had to leave to attend a meeting 'he couldn't miss.' Sergeant Mason eventually convinced the father of the murdered child of the necessity of remaining in Boulder."
(Kolar, 2012)​

FF: WRKJB, p. 324:

"It seemed incomprehensible to me that John Ramsey, within less than an hour of the discovery of the body his daughter, would be making arrangements to take his family and leave the state by private plane. When overheard making these arrangements with his pilot, Ramsey told Detective Bill Palmer that he had an important business meeting to attend in Georgia." (Kolar, 2012)​

 

[BOESP]

No where to go my hind foot. :tantrum:

Doesn't Boulder have motels? Iirc, LE offered to secure a hotel or motel for the Ramseys.

 

[Mama2JML]

No where to go my hind foot. :tantrum:

Doesn't Boulder have motels? Iirc, LE offered to secure a hotel or motel for the Ramseys.

Yes, according to PMPT, Mason (initially) wanted to move the family & all the friends in the home to the Holiday Inn, placing them in separate rooms to be interviewed. It's unfortunate this didn't occur.

 

[bettybaby00]

Unfortunate is an understatement /sigh

 

[DeeDee249]

No where to go my hind foot. :tantrum:

Doesn't Boulder have motels? Iirc, LE offered to secure a hotel or motel for the Ramseys.

Of course there were motels/hotels, and you are correct- LE offered to arrange rooms for them. The Rs refused, insisting they preferred to stay with friends. Since they had not been arrested or taken to the police station for questioning, they were not obligated to go along with poiice suggestions and were free to stay wherever they wished.